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Tibia 7.7 PVP-E Original #NoChanges except for Skulls/Exhaust

I don't know what ots you played. Ot servers have whatever their owners set.
But you said that what you called the "true 7.6 mage formula" cipsoft too had used for one year only. While those spell costs set in 7.6 update were in use for many years. And for some spells like exura vita for instance - still are.
CIPsoft made drastic balance changes in 7.8 with the introduction of rune hotkeys. From a practical perspective, it could be seen as less drastic if we include cheats like aimbot in the accepted meta, but when revisiting old versions of Tibia in OT servers I don't think it's helpful. Why would you play 7.6 if you want rune hotkeys? So as far as CIPsoft's tibia servers go, the 7.6 balance only lasted for one year.

Open tibia is a different story. They are not limited to the short scope of CIPsofts versions, but it's up to the owner to implement their own balance. From my experience the oldschool OT community implemented their own custom version of 7.6, which has stuck around and become the "true 7.6 balance", even though it differs from CIPsofts 7.6 balance.

CIPsoft intended mages to use more instant spells, so they made mana fluids more efficient and increased regeneration, generally by a factor of 4. They didn't use the same factor for instant healing spells though. The most important healing spell Exura Vita only became more efficient by a factor of 2. That's not true for most OT servers though.

So what happens when you give Sorcerers and Paladins Exura Vita for 80 mana?
  • Druids lose identity
    • Self-healing with Exura Sio (70 mana) is not that much more efficient than Exura Vita (80 mana).
  • Knights lose identity
    • Paladins are intended to be stronger healers, but spending 160 mana to heal will drain your mana. You can spend 80 mana indefinitely by using mana fluids.
From my experience the OT scene moved on from 7.6 balance to 7.4, without really trying out CIPsoft's 7.6 balance. Do you have a different experience? If so, could you update me on recent history of 7.6 servers?
 
Paladins are intended to be stronger healers, but spending 160 mana to heal will drain your mana. You can spend 80 mana indefinitely by using mana fluids.
this won't work on this server because you get exhausted for spells after drinking mana fluid

you can uh+ exura vita in 1 round tho :D
 
this won't work on this server because you get exhausted for spells after drinking mana fluid

you can uh+ exura vita in 1 round tho :D

My point still stands though. Kungenn said:

Considering how strong mages are in 7.7 due to mana regen is higher and manafluids give double mana but cost 50% of what they did in 7.4.
While instant spells remain the same mana cost (exori vis 20 mana etc). UE is 1200 mana instead of 800 but still.
It makes sorcerers/druids very potent.

I illustrated that the 7.7 we know in OT servers is actually a custom version of 7.7 where sorcerers has been buffed.
 
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@Worr What buffs that were made to sorcerers? I am just stating what 7.7 is lol
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If you are talking about the buffs that CipSoft made that is one thing but if you are refering to me buffing the sorcerers that is not the case I just stated why paladins & knights get some buff to balance out how strong the sorcerers & druids are in 7.7
 
@Worr What buffs that were made to sorcerers? I am just stating what 7.7 is lol
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If you are talking about the buffs that CipSoft made that is one thing but if you are refering to me buffing the sorcerers that is not the case I just stated why paladins & knights get some buff to balance out how strong the sorcerers & druids are in 7.7

Almost every OT server buffed sorcerers/paladins with 80 mana Exura Vita.
 
That I never wrote that I would :S

No, but mages are OP in that (buffed) version. The other is fairly untested.
What servers do you have experience with testing stock 7.6 balance?
 
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Im not sure I follow what you are asking?

The others? Knights and Paladins are fairly untested in 7.6? Huh?
What servers do I have experience with testing stock 7.6? You mean CipSoft version of 7.6? Well I run the realots server and I have done that for several years, even with #NoChanges so I'd say plenty of experience if that is what you meant
 
From my experience the OT scene moved on from 7.6 balance to 7.4, without really trying out CIPsoft's 7.6 balance. Do you have a different experience? If so, could you update me on recent history of 7.6 servers?

Again, I have no idea what servers you played. I was only referring to the cip part. You didn't mention lack of hotkeys as a part of what you called "true formula" before, but if you put it that way now, then so be it. But I think it's kinda out of context, the OP intends to use cip files, not some bugged evo distro from 10 years ago.
Apart from that - yes, plenty of servers used the "true 7.6" balance in the past, let alone mention... real tibia or realots itself. And I mean it's not really hard to realize how OP the mages were in that version. Considering they are equally strong in spell power as 7.4 mages, but in the same time they have 4x more effective mana fluids, they have wands for easy start, and they can also exp way faster than any other vocation just with exori vis (with 1s exhaust). Realots hosted by Dennis and later by Iryont therefore always ended up adding some new weapons/ammo for knights and pallies, as well as exura gran for knights and other stuff.
In real tibia these were times of mages domination. Prior to that mages used to be extremely strong but also tough to level up (either slow or expensive as fuck), so they were few among the highest levels. After the relevant update high level mages started to sprout like mushrooms after the rain. Eventually few updates later cip gave a huge boost to knights and pallies damage after alot of complaints and crying on how unbalanced mages were (like really alot), followed by another update which changed spell power formula drastically. I don't know how you can tell it's untested.
 
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@kay I played most oldschool servers around 2008-2012.

@kay I played most oldschool servers around 2008-2012.


Im not sure I follow what you are asking?

What servers do I have experience with testing stock 7.6? You mean CipSoft version of 7.6? Well I run the realots server and I have done that for several years, even with #NoChanges so I'd say plenty of experience if that is what you meant

Fair enough. Yes, that's the question I asked since the very beginning :)
 
Past week I made the for me, tough decision to move on from CipSoft Engine.
I've had this debate with myself in the past, since I got the files 7 years ago.
There is a lot you can do with reverse engineering, like the bug where you could push someone through floors & walls.
That was fixable and is fixed, changing regens, changing if spells should require level or magiclevel etc.
But adding functions like sharedExperience and so on was taking forever to even get working, experience formula took a while to fix but it ended up being bugged causing faults at level 88+.

After countless, really, countless hours working with this engine even though to me, I think it's one of the damn best engines I've ever worked with.
I decided it is not worth it, players don't appreciate the real game anyway, many of them havent played it when it was the live version on Tibia.com making it even harder for them to relate to stuff that for me is the true feeling.

Like not being able to run and do other actions at the same time is something that a lot of players complained about how that is not the way it was, while Im sorry but it was.
Not having tasks to complete that would give the grind a light at the end of the tunnel and not just a countless grind.
Shared experience, being able to share the exp with whomever you hunt with etc.

And I agree on many points and I guess that is why I have decided to move to TFS, once again.

I'll change the topic post and you can follow my journey in making the server into a cipsoft copy but with a lot of possibilities rather than restrictions.
I know there are other servers that has already done this, Tibiantis is one as an example, however that doesn't mean having options for players is bad.

Oh and I almost forgot, I am atleast for now going to work on bringing 7.7 rather than 7.4.


If there is anyone that wants to join up feel free to hit me up on discord or in a PM and we can talk :)
 
good luck! just remember that we are competing with whales (Realesta, Kasteria, Tibiantis , Imperianic, WeareTibia)
 
Like not being able to run and do other actions at the same time is something that a lot of players complained about how that is not the way it was, while Im sorry but it was.

People used to complain about that in Tibiantis as well ;)
Honestly, if you're that meticulous about all the smallest details of real tibia and can't let it go, you're only going to frustrate yourself working with tfs not less than you did with the original binary. Even before you get to the details, it lacks so many major features, or is inaccurate in such, that it would probably take rewriting half of the code to implement/correct. And then - in my opinion - it's poorly documented and kind of spaghetti code, which doesn't help.
Good luck with your further projects anyway. By the way, if you post that new exp formula, I might be able to tell why it breaks.
 
Oh and I almost forgot, I am atleast for now going to work on bringing 7.7 rather than 7.4.
Don't forget that in open tibia community there is already such attempts to be done. One of them is TwistedScorpio/Nostalrius (https://github.com/TwistedScorpio/Nostalrius)
For example, several years ago I used this fork for my own server which I am developing till these days. It is very good base to start your journey. It already uses original .npc files, original items, and all the scripts are rewritten from cipsoft originally to TFS1.2 lua. However keep in mind that the current files are outdated nowadays. There is lots of crash bugs and at least I have fixed tens of them. However, probably the best you can do is take the current nostalrius repo and try to merge it with current tfs. You would instantly up-date the code base and solve lots of potential problems and crashes nostalrius has.
good luck! just remember that we are competing with whales (Realesta, Kasteria, Tibiantis , Imperianic, WeareTibia)
Have you ever played at least one of them? Almost all of them are nothing but a bunch of fake players online. I played this season the Imperianic & Realesta. Wow 1k online but like 200 players sits in the Stonehome and lots more everywhere else. It is cool that Realesta has its minion Punio which keeps the actual player base active for several weeks but I am starting to think that Tibia community is just to small in general. Don't be too much surprised about the magic numbers these servers run. Have you ever played real tibia back in the 7.x era where in antica or "azure" there were 1k online? Do you remember how loaded of players the DPs were used to be of such amount of players? The Thais is lucky if 10 players are in the depot in the Imperianic or Realesta.
Edit: I am no speaking about Tibiantis regarding the players number. Sorry for little offtopic. Goodluck with the project.
 
Id really like feedback as to what you'd want;


Things that is already decided.

• A pure 7.7 with minor modifications to boost paladins & knights viability
• High skill rate around 8x, medium high mag rate around 3x
• Fairly high loot rate, probably around 5x
• Djinn Quest is just to walk to Melchior and start the quest then decided what faction you want to join and you are done
• A shorter version of postman quest
• PVP-E with or without skulls.
• Exhaust for offensive abilities will be 2000 ms (2 seconds)
• Wands & Rods will work, just like they did in 7.7
• Weapons will have a boost in their ATK (around +3 to +5)
• Light bolts will exist with 35 ATK instead of the regular bolts 30 ATK and they will weigh less.

Stuff I need help with to decide;

Experience Rate?

As you know if you read the topic post this is the real server engine from CipSoft so changes is hard to make.
I made a formula that is around 12x in the start and at level 100 you are down to 2x exp, however this formula breaks at level 88 and it happens even if I modify it slightly.
I've spent many hours trying to fix the formula but I cannot get it to work.
We are currently trying to adapt experience stages instead however this also proves to be a challenge.

Would you rather have some what staged server like from level 1-8 20x 9-20 15x etc and then it ends up at 2x at 100 or 1x at 150?
Or would you rather have a constant experience rate like 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or even higher?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated
I can say this. If the server is intended to be fun in the short run then the rest of the gameplay has to be just as fun. In this instance it will go fast to level up. That means that it cant take more time to do a quest such as djin quest than it is to take 10 levels. Because that is not balanced.

The same thing is with the rune making. If you can level up so fast then you need more runes. I would make it 2x conjuring stuff on this server.

I'd like a fast paced server like this. Sounds very fun. Ofc these kind of servers needs players. So I hope you understand that you need to advertise or else this wont work.

When are you thinking of releasing this_
 
Cipsoft Engine seems like a valuable resource for testing, even if you decide to not use it for the server. Relying on old sources when making specifications for a feature is difficult for such an old game.

Have you ever played real tibia back in the 7.x era where in antica or "azure" there were 1k online? Do you remember how loaded of players the DPs were used to be of such amount of players? The Thais is lucky if 10 players are in the depot in the Imperianic or Realesta.

I think that's one of those things that people are nostalgic about with 7.4, but don't actually want to go back to: Making runes while idling/chatting. Tibia has a pretty good chatting function, but the chatting services available in 2004 were not even close to what we have today. Discord alone has way more users than ICQ, MSN and IRC combined back in 2004. You can't offer a nice chatting system from 2004 and expect people to use it the same way in 2021.
 
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Don't forget that in open tibia community there is already such attempts to be done. One of them is TwistedScorpio/Nostalrius (https://github.com/TwistedScorpio/Nostalrius)
For example, several years ago I used this fork for my own server which I am developing till these days. It is very good base to start your journey. It already uses original .npc files, original items, and all the scripts are rewritten from cipsoft originally to TFS1.2 lua. However keep in mind that the current files are outdated nowadays. There is lots of crash bugs and at least I have fixed tens of them. However, probably the best you can do is take the current nostalrius repo and try to merge it with current tfs. You would instantly up-date the code base and solve lots of potential problems and crashes nostalrius has.

Have you ever played at least one of them? Almost all of them are nothing but a bunch of fake players online. I played this season the Imperianic & Realesta. Wow 1k online but like 200 players sits in the Stonehome and lots more everywhere else. It is cool that Realesta has its minion Punio which keeps the actual player base active for several weeks but I am starting to think that Tibia community is just to small in general. Don't be too much surprised about the magic numbers these servers run. Have you ever played real tibia back in the 7.x era where in antica or "azure" there were 1k online? Do you remember how loaded of players the DPs were used to be of such amount of players? The Thais is lucky if 10 players are in the depot in the Imperianic or Realesta.
Edit: I am no speaking about Tibiantis regarding the players number. Sorry for little offtopic. Goodluck with the project.
people sit in depo because they didnt know how to play game you cant compare real map with noobs to pro players playing and actually progressing with levels/quests non stop instead of wasting time we are not 15 years old to move items in depo 1 h and then stand there ask ppl go quest etc... Tibia is alive and people in depo dont represent nothing because people do not waste time in depo anymore. there is nothing to do in depo. depo is useless part of game its only storage people dont just store non stop people play now and exp only.
 
people sit in depo because they didnt know how to play game you cant compare real map with noobs to pro players playing and actually progressing with levels/quests non stop instead of wasting time we are not 15 years old to move items in depo 1 h and then stand there ask ppl go quest etc... Tibia is alive and people in depo dont represent nothing because people do not waste time in depo anymore. there is nothing to do in depo. depo is useless part of game its only storage people dont just store non stop people play now and exp only.
Not exactly. The "we are not 15 years old" is a cliche and has zero impact on the game.
The fact that people nowadays are less willing to waste time doing nothing (which is true) and less willing to hunt "shit spawns" only means that the game should feel even more active with similar numbers. But the reason so many people sit in depot back in 2004 was also (and mostly) because there was no space for them. Not only all depots were crowded but literally every spawn. Many spawns that today are being claimed were therefore considered public. So in today's reality you'd have less people standing in depot - right, but even more insane fightings over spawns (when it already was insane then and let me remind the servers held only up to 850 players).
When Tibiantis started 300 players online were enough to make such a crowd that some used to hunt even a single wild warrior next to hills. There were alot of complaints on the lack of spawns which didn't stop even at 150 online. Even if you take 50% bigger map and 3x faster respawn it shouldn't take more than several hundreds to fill it up completly.
Over 3000 "active players" online is hilariously absurd. With that number of players you'd easily have 100 people in each town's depot only of those who are refilling at the moment / buying something / died a minute ago etc. And it's not even a slight exeggaration. It wasn't really that long ago when the most popular servers barely had 1/10 of the online today's servers have. These numbers devaluate over past years to the point that they mean nothing now. And it still continues, I won't be surprised if someone pops up with a server with 5000 online this year.
Besides, I'm not sure the default tfs would even be able to handle 3000 active players.
 
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