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The negative effects of "bumping".

Kaspar

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Hello there.

I want to inform people about the negative effects that may occur when people are "bumping" their own threads.
First and foremost, "bumping" ("bump" = bring up my post) means that a user is writing a short, irrelevant message on a thread, with the purpose to bring it up to the top of a board.
One often does so just to make their own thread get more attention, and falsely showing that their thread is active -- when it in fact is not.

Whenever a user is "bumping" their own thread, all the other threads in that board will get buried deeper. This may lead to other people also "bumping" their threads because they are getting buried otherwise.
What this essentially means is that threads are getting buried quicker, more spam posts are being made and in reality: threads that are actually showing real activity, are getting buried the most.
There are many other consequences of "bumping". The visibility in a thread will be worse. "Bumping" will decrease the amount of relevant information. Etc...

The whole concept of "bumping" is very counter-intuitive.
Just do not "bump" your thread by any mean, so the forum can flourish with useful information, as intended.

Thank you.
 
There's a deeper problem going on with trying to stop bumps: even if you don't write "bump", you can still actually bump any thread by writing anything you like and still avoid getting flagged for bumping or spamming.
It's simply not that hard to come up with some bs that sounds "fine" as a post, but is actually just a bump under false pretenses, and selfish people/hosters will always do anything to get the most attention and will gladly create new otland accounts, buy accounts, anything they can to get away with it, so there's no real simple way to stop the most disruptive and selfish people from bumping.

Three strong solutions:
1) Create a network/site where members are required to have their RL identity validated (e.g. passport + a selfie holding up date and signature).
This is how some modern serious businesses operating online work now, including ISPs, crypto exchanges, and others, and it's probably the strongest solution against not just spam, but all kinds of frauds, but bad for privacy (someone evil can operate the website and take/abuse all your information). Or
2) Create a better internal system to deal specifically with spammers. Algorithms, AI, more restrictive configurations (e.g. only push bumped threads to the front if the latest push was more than 24 hours, 3 days, 7 days, etc before the last bump), etc.
3) Create a decentralized system (e.g. different discord servers or other types of interactive social networks) where each admin decides how to run his server, who they want to ban, etc, and if you don't like any of the servers so far you can create your own server just like I did here.
This option is the simplest, gives maximum privacy and freedom to everyone, but gives the responsibility of dealing with bumping/spam etc to each host (free market solution).
 
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Good input about the subject!
While both of your first two points might be solutions to the matter, I do think they are too formal and strict.

One may still "bump" their thread by writing a message after it's been 24 hours since their latest post, as long as the post contains some sort of message (rather than just a spam message meant to "bump" their thread).
Even if their intention is to make their thread go up on respective board, it's still fine if they do it within the frames of our rules on OTLand.

For example, on an advertisement thread, you may "bump" your thread with a message like: "We updated the map to a winter themed concept! Come check it out.", if it conforms with the rules regarding double-posting.
The intention would still be to bring the thread up in the board, but in an acceptable way.
 
There's a deeper problem going on with trying to stop bumps: even if you don't write "bump", you can still actually bump any thread by writing anything you like and still avoid getting flagged for bumping or spamming.
It's simply not that hard to come up with some bs that sounds "fine" as a post, but is actually just a bump under false pretenses, and selfish people/hosters will always do anything to get the most attention and will gladly create new otland accounts, buy accounts, anything they can to get away with it, so there's no real simple way to stop the most disruptive and selfish people from bumping.

Three strong solutions:
1) Create a network/site where members are required to have their RL identity validated (e.g. passport + a selfie holding up date and signature).
This is how some modern serious businesses operating online work now, including ISPs, crypto exchanges, and others, and it's probably the strongest solution against not just spam, but all kinds of frauds, but bad for privacy (someone evil can operate the website and take/abuse all your information). Or
2) Create a better internal system to deal specifically with spammers. Algorithms, AI, more restrictive configurations (e.g. only push bumped threads to the front if the latest push was more than 24 hours, 3 days, 7 days, etc before the last bump), etc.
3) Create a decentralized system (e.g. different discord servers or other types of interactive social networks) where each admin decides how to run his server, who they want to ban, etc, and if you don't like any of the servers so far you can create your own server just like I did here.
This option is the simplest, gives maximum privacy and freedom to everyone, but gives the responsibility of dealing with bumping/spam etc to each host (free market solution).

Well yeah but, you do realize this is a website about a god damn game and not some Wall Street financial whatever website? A simple 24 hour based restriction would do.
 
I agree with you, "non-organic" comments just decrease the amount of relevant information in these threads besides that takes the place of more interesting topics.

Unfortunately, theres no such easy sollution to this (brazilians communities have the same issue), unless they try some stuff like @e.e said, for example, moderators, A.I, algorithms, but i'm afraid that will decrease the freedom users have to comment on threads.

OFF: You should probably ask @Saphron to stop asking people on discord to bump new medivia threads aswell :D
 
Posting just a "bump" is in violation of rule #1 and #2 of otland:
1. Offtopic messages:
Posting messages that have no relevance to the topic of the thread you are posting in will lead to your post being deleted. Repeated posting of offtopic messages may lead to a punishment.

2. Spamming / Double post:
You may not repeat the same message multiple times. It is seen as spamming, and will be deleted. If you accidentally post the same content twice, report one of the duplicate posts so a moderator can delete or merge that post.
This also applies if you for example "bump" a thread.

While a bump is a desire for attention, it is not considered relevant for the topic. Multiple bumps lead to double posts and spamming.

What is the correct way to gain further exposure to my thread?

No matter which board, you should not spam, if the last post in the thread is your own, wait at least 24 hours before posting new relevant content. If you wish to post sooner, use the edit post functionality to extend your existing post.

Support threads:
There is a specific ruleset for support board, along with some important tips to help us, help you. Its worth a read.
Rules for the Support board

You have created a support thread, you need help. But nobody are helping you? HAALP!

Optimize your thread!
The title is the first thing we see that we click on to determine if your thread is worth our attention. If you regret your title and you are unable to change it, report your thread with a suggested new title and moderators will help you change it.

Elaborate on your content: Instead of a bump, do some self testing, some research, and post that research! Let other people see you try to solve the issue yourself. Maybe they can help you in the right direction. Post elaborative content, for instance if you post failed code attempts other people will see that you are trying, and they might comment on why your code isn't working. Why should they bother helping you, if you don't bother elaborate on your own issues?
Display CODE properly in your post
We have code tags with syntax highlighting. Use them. If its easier for us to see and understand your code, it is easier for us to help you.


Advertisement threads:
Post news! Community pictures, teaser trailers. These are your free bumps, that promotes your server and encourage people to get in on the fun! This is super easy if you have anything interesting going on with your server! There should never be a reason to just post "bump" in an advertisement thread, it just tells everyone that your OT is shit and you don't have anything to show them.

Don't enter a direct discussion with your critics! You might find "haters" or "toxic" people in your thread. If they are violating the rules, report them, else stay away from them. Think of the principles of advertisement, it is never in your favor to increase exposure to hating posts, if you address them critically, you end up making a fool of yourself. The purpose of your advertisement thread is not to win an argument or be messiah, but to promote your OT server, and emphasising on its best qualities is better than giving attention to the worst critics.
I'm not saying not to listen to them, they might have valid criticism. But this can be dealt with in a professional and respectful manner.

Edit:
Jobs threads:
Job giver
: Elaborate on tasks you want to give your team. Perhaps create an open assignment, elaborate on why you need this done etc. Motivate people to get on board.

Job taker: Elaborate on what you can do, perhaps show some code samples. Some resume pointers. Show some of your work. Motivate people to reach out to you.
 
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Posting just a "bump" is in violation of rule #1 and #2 of otland:


While a bump is a desire for attention, it is not considered relevant for the topic. Multiple bumps lead to double posts and spamming.

What is the correct way to gain further exposure to my thread?

No matter which board, you should not spam, if the last post in the thread is your own, wait at least 24 hours before posting new relevant content. If you wish to post sooner, use the edit post functionality to extend your existing post.

Support threads:
There is a specific ruleset for support board, along with some important tips to help us, help you. Its worth a read.
Rules for the Support board

You have created a support thread, you need help. But nobody are helping you? HAALP!

Optimize your thread!
The title is the first thing we see that we click on to determine if your thread is worth our attention. If you regret your title and you are unable to change it, report your thread with a suggested new title and moderators will help you change it.

Elaborate on your content: Instead of a bump, do some self testing, some research, and post that research! Let other people see you try to solve the issue yourself. Maybe they can help you in the right direction. Post elaborative content, for instance if you post failed code attempts other people will see that you are trying, and they might comment on why your code isn't working. Why should they bother helping you, if you don't bother elaborate on your own issues?
Display CODE properly in your post
We have code tags with syntax highlighting. Use them. If its easier for us to see and understand your code, it is easier for us to help you.


Advertisement threads:
Post news! Community pictures, teaser trailers. These are your free bumps, that promotes your server and encourage people to get in on the fun! This is super easy if you have anything interesting going on with your server! There should never be a reason to just post "bump" in an advertisement thread, it just tells everyone that your OT is shit and you don't have anything to show them.

Don't enter a direct discussion with your critics! You might find "haters" or "toxic" people in your thread. If they are violating the rules, report them, else stay away from them. Think of the principles of advertisement, it is never in your favor to increase exposure to hating posts, if you address them critically, you end up making a fool of yourself. The purpose of your advertisement thread is not to win an argument or be messiah, but to promote your OT server, and emphasising on its best qualities is better than giving attention to the worst critics.
I'm not saying not to listen to them, they might have valid criticism. But this can be dealt with in a professional and respectful manner.
A perfect post informing users what to do instead of just "bumping" their thread.
I completely agree with the points regarding posting some useful information on your thread (instead of just "bumping"), that essentially works as a "bump" but isn't an irrelevant, off-topic post.

Regarding advertisement threads, it can be difficult for the original poster to not answer negative comments. In most cases, it is best to just refrain from answering toxic messages, but one thing to note here is that sometimes, a thread receives a lot of criticism that's negative, but not toxic.
I've seen some original posters ignore those posts, which also sends a bad message about one's advertised server.
It's a vital part to choose which messages to answer and which to ignore. As you also mentioned, one may still reply to negative criticism, but in a respectful manner.
Thanks for the very informative and helpful post. It includes good guidelines to be followed.
Kudos!
 
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