OTC 1.0 Comparison

Dear all,

As many of you already know, @Mehah is working actively in a improved version of Otclient. It's safe to say that he literally resurrected it after a long hiatus of actually useful contributions. You can check his original topic here: OTClient 1.0 (https://otland.net/threads/otclient-1-0.271332)

Please check the images below, they speak by themselves:

OTCLIENT 1.0: 2.6k FPS


Unamed alternative paid version: 337 FPS


I'm not trying to generate any kind of rivality, the "unamed" version has some features which OTC1.0 don't have yet, like a better walk system, map caching and the exclusive thread. That justify it price? Absolutely not. And I have written A LOT about it and was very close to be banned from otland because of 'indirect advertsing' and also my lack of constraint in some posts. However, my tone don't make my points less valid...

Of course the "unamed" owner of the "unamed" otc will just cherry pick the improvements @Mehah is doing to his "unamed" project and as we move forward we will always be "one step behind" because it's simpler to copy the code of others than to actually developing and studying where the bottlenecks are. But let's remember for a second that @Mehah is working on this for 2 weeks now? The "unamed" owner will definetely have a hard time copying and solving all conflicts just to match the improvements otclient 1.0 already have achieved.

My point being: How to fight greedy and lack of trust in the community? We endorse projects such as OTC1.0 and Optimized TFS from @fabian766.
Being testers, donating, helping to improve other areas so they can focus in more critical and technical ones, raising issues and contributing also with the things you fix for yourself...

We got a lot of developers which are great here, we can literally do ANYTHING if we organize ourselves. Please take this into consideration.
Soon the vast majority of servers that never contributed with 'improvements' will have to migrate their sources to 'optimized tfs', soon the vast majority of servers that fixed otclient by themselves and never cared to make a pull a request with new modules and stuff will have to migrate. This is a lot of rework that could be avoided, a lot of "lost work" that simply could have been reduced if we shared more. I'm tired and starting to sound repetitive but it's so obvious that it pisses me off to see we are still doing things the wrong way (as a community). We have several people willing to pay $100-200 bucks for a small and one line fix but we have almost 0 people to donate 10$ to support a experienced programmer to improve one thing for everyone. That crushes my heart and hopes.

If you got any kind of experience with otclient, please, it's time to use your experience for a greater good: OTC 1.0 need a better layout and there's a lot of modules that could use a rework, if you're willing to help us out, we can have a usable open source version until august that will not only be better than "unamed" version but will also be ours, finally a default open client for the community to use instead of the cipsoft one.

Please, don't waste any more time. Let's do our part!

Best regards,
/NW

2 weeks of work and it's already better on this than the other one that has a car price, interesting...

i have tested it and i can say it works really amazing bad for us who use 7.72 since he wont support but we have to support him i love what he is doing for real

Before we see performance on old, low-end hardware, there is nothing to compare.
You guys are forgetting that significant amount of Tibia players is playing on low-end hardware. I've been corresponding with a guy that helped kondrah while OTCv8 was in development and a lot of unique stats from unique computers were gathered to help him optimize client for different hardware.

At the end, 200 or 2000 FPS won't make a difference. Stable 60+ without a lot of a processing power is what matters.

If OTC1.0 will be able to achieve this:
Then you should start threads like this one.

I'll do the role of devil advocate here.
The optimizations looks cool? Sure it does. But you can't judge it solely by FPS. 3k~5k fps means nothing there.
What do we need? Rather stable 60 FPS in newer and older hardware.
I can't test OTC 1.0 rn since my GPU is a GTX 1080 TI, we need someone with a really old hardware like 15 years old to really see the difference.
If you do have a good GPU or APU them it can be the normal OTC too it'll do well.

Impressive results!

oen432 said:

Before we see performance on old, low-end hardware, there is nothing to compare.
You guys are forgetting that significant amount of Tibia players is playing on low-end hardware. I've been corresponding with a guy that helped kondrah while OTCv8 was in development and a lot of unique stats from unique computers were gathered to help him optimize client for different hardware.

At the end, 200 or 2000 FPS won't make a difference. Stable 60+ without a lot of a processing power is what matters.

If OTC1.0 will be able to achieve this:

Then you should start threads like this one.

Click to expand...

I can't see Kondrah's name anyware.. I don't know what are you talking about, but I'm pretty sure that your post is 'indirect advertsing' and it's illegal.

oen432 said:

Before we see performance on old, low-end hardware, there is nothing to compare.
You guys are forgetting that significant amount of Tibia players is playing on low-end hardware. I've been corresponding with a guy that helped kondrah while OTCv8 was in development and a lot of unique stats from unique computers were gathered to help him optimize client for different hardware.

At the end, 200 or 2000 FPS won't make a difference. Stable 60+ without a lot of a processing power is what matters.

If OTC1.0 will be able to achieve this:

Then you should start threads like this one.

Click to expand...

Don't be so mad Bro, if fps can't be stable in higher fps why would it be in lower ones? What you showed is just cache mapping that is what I wrote otc1.0 don't have yet.

Don't need to cry in my topic over nothing, or did you bought the unnamed version? I' m planning to repair one of my oldest computers just to run benchmarks comparing with limited ram, limited video and limited cpu to check how both perform on each situation. Also you're comparing a project that has been worked on for over a year with one has two weeks, what's the sense?

For someone who reads code all day for living, you guys are really lacking interpretation skills. That's the only thing you understood from my topic?

Night Wolf said:

Don't be so mad Bro, if fps can't be stable in higher fps why would it be in lower ones? What you showed is just cache mapping that is what I wrote otc1.0 don't have yet.

Click to expand...

You are the only one being mad because of my post and the truth you can't handle...

Night Wolf said:

For someone who reads code all day for living, you guys are really lacking interpretation skills. That's the only thing you understood from my topic?

Click to expand...

How ironic... It's you that misunderstood my post.
Your post is just a way to show how kondrah is bad, how what he has done could be done in 2 weeks and for free. Unfortunately, you are wrong.
Just don't be surprised if OTC1.0 won't be able to work as good as OTCv8 does without additional 4 months of work because this is a possibility.
You are building hype way too soon.

Night Wolf said:

Don't be so mad Bro, if fps can't be stable in higher fps why would it be in lower ones? What you showed is just cache mapping that is what I wrote otc1.0 don't have yet.

Don't need to cry in my topic over nothing, or did you bought the unnamed version? I' m planning to repair one of my oldest computers just to run benchmarks comparing with limited ram, limited video and limited cpu to check how both perform on each situation. Also you're comparing a project that has been worked on for over a year with one has two weeks, what's the sense?

For someone who reads code all day for living, you guys are really lacking interpretation skills. That's the only thing you understood from my topic?

Click to expand...

Don't forget the money invested in this project that I don't know from a guy that I don't remember the name, in which, I also don't know, each license costs a car.

oen432 said:

Your post is just a way to show how kondrah is bad, how what he has done could be done in 2 weeks and for free. Unfortunately, you are wrong.
Just don't be surprised if OTC1.0 won't be able to work as good as OTCv8 does without additional 4 months of work because this is a possibility.
You are building hype way too soon.

Click to expand...

how sad to see this is the only thing you could understood, please take a moment to read again (no one will judge you for not understanding the first time, it's a lot of words, I know...)

It's also sad to see that people who could actually be contributing in some way, are putting the "unnamed" project in a "god tier" where in fact those are fairly simple corrections in comparison to what a CS undergraduate learns in college. Is this what we have become now, a cult for "unnamed"? I'm not building hype, I'm stating the obvious: there's now a free version that isn't completed yet and it will take months to be completed. We can help build it together because it will be ours, or we can continue giving credits (and money) to people who clearly deserve none. This topic is more to advertise the otc1.0 project and see if there's anyone willing to help, because we surely do need a lot of help in the areas I mentioned (but you chose to ignore?).

Night Wolf said:

how sad to see this is the only thing you could understood, please take a moment to read again (no one will judge you for not understanding the first time, it's a lot of words, I know...)

It's also sad to see that people who could actually be contributing in some way, are putting the "unnamed" project in a "god tier" where in fact those are fairly simple corrections in comparison to what a CS undergraduate learns in college. Is this what we have become now? I'm not building hype, I'm stating the obvious: there's now a free version that isn't completed yet and it will take months to be completed. We can help build it together because it will be ours, or we can continue giving credits (and money) to people who clearly deserve none. This topic is more to advertise the otc1.0 project and see if there's anyone willing to help, because we surely do need a lot of help in the areas I mentioned (but you chose to ignore?).

Click to expand...

If you wanted people to focus on OTC1.0 and advertise it, then you would have NOT mention OTCv8 at all, or at least spare these unnecessary comments about kondrah. Why, why are you trying to start another shitstorm about same thing? Just stop it.

oen432 said:

If you wanted people to focus on OTC1.0 and advertise it, then you would have NOT mention OTCv8 at all, or at least spare these unnecessary comments about kondrah. Why, why are you trying to start another shitstorm about same thing? Just stop it.

Click to expand...

I didn't mentioned anything at all, I'm just comparing that FPS problems have all been fixed already, why this fixation with the "unnamed project"? You're totally butthurted because of free stuff? It doesn't makes sense to me unless you were somehow winning something over "unnamed" sales...

oen432 said:

If you wanted people to focus on OTC1.0 and advertise it, then you would have NOT mention OTCv8 at all, or at least spare these unnecessary comments about kondrah. Why, why are you trying to start another shitstorm about same thing? Just stop it.

Click to expand...

Well, the day people that used full open code sources to make profit start generating real contributions to the community and re-investing what they took from the open source community, then we might start thinking without rivalry and support closed projects like the one you mentioned (again, you've mentioned that). Unfortunately, get a bunch of open source code, make it fancy and call it yours and charge an abnormal price is not exactly what I call "helpful". We are supporting our own end! Your speech sounds like sheep saying that the wolves are the solution. (not a joke with @Night Wolf's name, that was an accidental pun)

@skulls
How dare you to doubt I'm not the solution? With the slighlest movement of my hand over this keyboard people are already freaking out, don't understimate me, you mortal.

If you want to get max FPS you can do it even easier, here's pseudocode, feel free to use it, there's no need to do so many changes. That's what you do right now. I didn't add it to otcv8 because it's waste of cpu/gpu power.

kondra said:

If you want to get max FPS you can do it even easier, here's pseudocode, feel free to use it, there's no need to do so many changes. That's what you do right now. I didn't add it to otcv8 because it's waste of cpu/gpu power.

Code:

if lastFrame + 10 < millis() then
  renderNewFrameToCache()
  lastFrame = millis()
end
renderFrameFromCache()

Click to expand...

such a genius, thank you for your highly valuable contribution :,)

Apologies Night Wolf, but it does seem that the main motivation behind this thread was not to promote OTClient V1.0, but to speak of OTCv8 in a demeaning way. Nevertheless, I do not agree with the price tag on OTCv8 either, I do think it is extremely pricey. I would pay ~200$ for the full sources, but I digress.

You don't see Linux promoted alongside the slogan "Choose Linux because f@#k Windows and f@#k Mac!"
Promote OTClient 1.0 for what it is, a open-sourced community based project and not some F@#kYouOTClientV8 project.

Otfan125 said:

Apologies Night Wolf, but it does seem that the main motivation behind this thread was not to promote OTClient V1.0, but to speak of OTCv8 in a demeaning way. Nevertheless, I do not agree with the price tag on OTCv8 either, I do think it is extremely pricey. I would pay ~200$ for the full sources, but I digress.

You don't see Linux promoted alongside the slogan "Choose Linux because f@#k Windows and f@#k Mac!"
Promote OTClient 1.0 for what it is, a open-sourced community based project and not some F@#kYouOTClientV8 project.

Click to expand...

I don't see my topic in any way being as agressive as you guys are seeing, do I need to quote it entirely again?
I mean, I'm only comparing not to say otcv8 is bad but rather the opposite. It is so good that actually I'm using it as benchmark here. You understand the difference now? I wouldn't bother to mention something that is garbage.

It's like AMD and Intel conferences, for many years intel only benchmark against itself but lately she's comparing their changes with AMD because AMD clearly earned the spot. If Kondrah were going to open the src of otcv8, we wouldn't even be having any discussion, we would work on top of his changes and try to make it EVEN BETTER.

I'm just saying that for many years I have seeing people saying "if otcv8 were open, I would definetely contribute" but hey, now we have a working alternative, let's just dive into it? If somehow this isn't clear for you I would highly recommend you to read the last paragraphs that is usually where the conclusion of a text is:

Night Wolf said:

We got a lot of developers which are great here, we can literally do ANYTHING if we organize ourselves. Please take this into consideration.
Soon the vast majority of servers that never contributed with 'improvements' will have to migrate their sources to 'optimized tfs', soon the vast majority of servers that fixed otclient by themselves and never cared to make a pull a request with new modules and stuff will have to migrate. This is a lot of rework that could be avoided, a lot of "lost work" that simply could have been reduced if we shared more. I'm tired and starting to sound repetitive but it's so obvious that it pisses me off to see we are still doing things the wrong way (as a community). We have several people willing to pay $100-200 bucks for a small and one line fix but we have almost 0 people to donate 10$ to support a experienced programmer to improve one thing for everyone. That crushes my heart and hopes.

If you got any kind of experience with otclient, please, it's time to use your experience for a greater good: OTC 1.0 need a better layout and there's a lot of modules that could use a rework, if you're willing to help us out, we can have a usable open source version until august that will not only be better than "unamed" version but will also be ours, finally a default open client for the community to use instead of the cipsoft one.

Please, don't waste any more time. Let's do our part!

Click to expand...

kondra said:

If you want to get max FPS you can do it even easier, here's pseudocode, feel free to use it, there's no need to do so many changes. That's what you do right now. I didn't add it to otcv8 because it's waste of cpu/gpu power.

Code:

if lastFrame + 10 < millis() then
  renderNewFrameToCache()
  lastFrame = millis()
end
renderFrameFromCache()

Click to expand...

I would not comment on that, I admire your work, and I think that the optimizations u have done so far are wonderful. I would bought myself, but 5k it's too much. And u saying my solution is 'CPU / GPU Bound', u are kidding me. Are u afraid of losing your livelihood?


Here is the comparison of the two, both are linked with vertical sync.
otclient.exe = 1.0
otclient_gl.exe = v8

I am not saying that my solution is better, because it is not, I just came here to help the community to have a decent client for free and you can rest easy, I'll be on this project for a short time.

Look, i’m not even long in this project, unlike you.