CipSoft's "Creator" software (Map Editor and more)

Tomek Chleje · Feb 8, 2023

Looks very interesting.
But there is still one thing they will not have or possess in this Editor. Good mappers

Antony Cordeiro · Feb 8, 2023

Tomek Chleje said:
Looks very interesting.
But there is still one thing they will not have or possess in this Editor. Good mappers

Knightmare from Cipsoft is best mapper in Tibian history. Before mapper he actually was a former player.
No chance any OTmapper could be at his level.

TibiCAM · Feb 8, 2023

Antony Cordeiro said:
Knightmare from Cipsoft is best mapper in Tibian history. Before mapper he actually was a former player.
No chance any OTmapper could be at his level.

He mapped some, but he mainly wrote lore and came up with the ideas and concepts of areas. The mapping was often done by others during his time he was active in the game. But a lot of his lore came directly from J.R.R. Tolkien, so he really isn't that good at neither mapping or coming up with lore in Tibia haha. I'd say he is mediocre at best and highly overrated. He got lucky that he was among the first to join CipSoft. It's the only job he's ever had, rewriting J.R.R. Tolkien's books into Tibia. There's so many allusions he has made in Tibia.

frostedflakes · Feb 8, 2023

Antony Cordeiro said:
Knightmare from Cipsoft is best mapper in Tibian history. Before mapper he actually was a former player.
No chance any OTmapper could be at his level.

Knightmare's maps certainly have fleshed out lore and fit perfectly into Tibia but come on there's a bunch of OT maps that are wayyyy better than CipSoft could ever do.

kay · Feb 9, 2023

TibiCAM said:
He mapped some, but he mainly wrote lore and came up with the ideas and concepts of areas. The mapping was often done by others during his time he was active in the game. But a lot of his lore came directly from J.R.R. Tolkien, so he really isn't that good at neither mapping or coming up with lore in Tibia haha. I'd say he is mediocre at best and highly overrated. He got lucky that he was among the first to join CipSoft. It's the only job he's ever had, rewriting J.R.R. Tolkien's books into Tibia. There's so many allusions he has made in Tibia.

He obviously used Tolkien as inspiration, and in fact many other sources (books, games, pop culture), but saying that he only rewrote the Tolkien's lore is highly ignorant. I honestly don't think you have a lil clue about the lore of Tibia after this.
He did map a lot too: Ab, Kazo, Rook, Edron, PoH (with PoI) for instance.

Terotrificy · Feb 9, 2023

TibiCAM said:
He mapped some, but he mainly wrote lore and came up with the ideas and concepts of areas. The mapping was often done by others during his time he was active in the game. But a lot of his lore came directly from J.R.R. Tolkien, so he really isn't that good at neither mapping or coming up with lore in Tibia haha. I'd say he is mediocre at best and highly overrated. He got lucky that he was among the first to join CipSoft. It's the only job he's ever had, rewriting J.R.R. Tolkien's books into Tibia. There's so many allusions he has made in Tibia.

When you remake from scratch all the 300+ NPC's cipsoft have in the leaked files + you check every single SQM of the tibia rl map trying to match it to 7.4 version you probably will realize all his work when it comes to mapping and lore.

coronal · Feb 9, 2023

kay said:
He obviously used Tolkien as inspiration, and in fact many other sources (books, games, pop culture), but saying that he only rewrote the Tolkien's lore is highly ignorant. I honestly don't think you have a lil clue about the lore of Tibia after this.
He did map a lot too: Ab, Kazo, Rook, Edron, PoH (with PoI) for instance.

TibiCAM on OtLand is one of the 17 founders of Ab'Dendriel. He was vice-leader in the Celebnoli guild, which was the guild that wrote the Ab'Dendriel / Elven lore in Tibia back then. They also did a lot of work in Kazordoon. A lot of the inspiration for Ab'Dendriel comes from Tolkien but also from Island of Kesmai.

Also, the books you find in the Ab'Dendriel library today was written by the Celebnoli.

It's also a false claim that Knightmare mapped those cities by himself. Ab'Dendriel and Kazordoon (lore and city structure) was made by the Celebnoli and a few others (incl. Knightmare). They made the sketches and Knightmare was the one in charge of converting those sketches into a Tibia map format.

Edron concept was made by Pepelu, Flattery, founders of what came to be Rising Dragons, Knightmare, among others.

Knightmare did not do one city by himself. I think that people who don't know how things back then were made shouldn't spread misinformation like that. And you were pretty condecending towards him in your writing.

Knightmare was the guy they reported to (sent their work to) and he made things happen due to his close connections with CIP. For instance, if you had a draft of a city or a general area, whether that's lore or a map structure, you could submit it to Knightmare and he would go through it, add some stuff if needed, and submit it to CIP. A lot of the things we see in the Tibian Mainland today comes directly from the Celebnoli.

You clearly did not partake in such things and clearly never met Knightmare, or knew how he collaborated with guilds.

I think you owe him an apology.

Knightmare did a lot of things, but he can't take full credit for any of those areas you listed. Including Rookgaard.

-- Big time boomer here

kay · Feb 9, 2023

coronal said:
Knightmare was the one in charge of converting those sketches into a Tibia map format.

So, he didn't map it, but he did map it?

Anyway, no one claimed that he did everything by himself or that he deserved full credit. It's quite the opposite. Your pal was trying to take all of his credit away. Let me quote: "It's the only job he's ever had, rewriting J.R.R. Tolkien's books into Tibia." Can you now quote where I claimed that he did everything by himself and no one else contributed to it?

It's common knowledge that back in the days Tibia was being created by players (with KM being one of them as well). But he was the one to eventually put all the puzzles together, with his own ideas included. He was responsible for that (or "in charge" - as you named it). He also did a lot of mapping (and mind there is a long way from a sketch/concept to a fully functional and balanced map). You've just confirmed it all yourself. So again: is it true that he "only" had to rewrite Tolkien's into Tibia, and nothing more? - because that's what we were discussing.

Whatever guild your friend was part of, I owe him nothing. If you actually read yours and TibiCam's posts, instead of focusing on presenting oneself - you two contradict each other, so at least put up one joint version before making such demands.

TibiCAM · Feb 9, 2023

kay is at it again

Knightmare was (is) a big fan of Tolkien. Other guilds tried to come up with their own concepts and lore that did not have anything to do Tolkien's stuff, since it was already too much such things at the time. But those ideas would almost never be implemented unless there was some connection to Tolkien due to both CIP and Knightmare being big fans of his books - that's the course of the game they initially took. And that was the sad reality for a while. There were a lot of mappers and lore writers - some doing minor details, some doing entire city sketches. A lot of them never got accepted. Pretty much your only chance of getting something implemented was by submitting a draft to Knightmare or a few others that were close to CIP. And by doing so, he'd take a lot (if not full) credit for it. Which is why Knightmare isn't that liked among the old guilds. He had the role of a community manager back then, sort of like the modern CM's today. His job (back then) mostly consisted of using someone else's drafts, adding some Tolkien allusion to it, forwarding it to CIP and getting full credit for it. TL/DR: Knightmare did not do much on his own. He wasn't creative, or a great mapper, or a great lore writer. He was (is) a big fan of Tolkien, a complete nerd about it, and loved taking full cred for other people's ideas.

And oh, we're not friends. We were enemies but we have some mutual connections.
Just because we can be respectful to each others doesn't mean we are friends.
That just shows you haven't quite grasped the concept of socializing with people.
You always seem to think you know shit but very often just come off as an asshole.

I don't even know why I'm replying to you here. It's not like you care anyways - you're always looking to argue with people. Never understood people like you. Go on and post some more stuff you think you know, but you actually don't.

kay · Feb 9, 2023

TibiCAM said:
Knightmare was (is) a big fan of Tolkien. Other guilds tried to come up with their own concepts and lore that did not have anything to do Tolkien's stuff, since it was already too much such things at the time. But those ideas would almost never be implemented unless there was some connection to Tolkien due to both CIP and Knightmare being big fans of his books - that's the course of the game they initially took. And that was the sad reality for a while. There were a lot of mappers and lore writers - some doing minor details, some doing entire city sketches. A lot of them never got accepted. Pretty much your only chance of getting something implemented was by submitting a draft to Knightmare or a few others that were close to CIP. And by doing so, he'd take a lot (if not full) credit for it. Which is why Knightmare isn't that liked among the old guilds. He had the role of a community manager back then, sort of like the modern CM's today. His job (back then) mostly consisted of using someone else's drafts, adding some Tolkien allusion to it, forwarding it to CIP and getting full credit for it. TL/DR: Knightmare did not do much on his own. He wasn't creative, or a great mapper, or a great lore writer. He was (is) a big fan of Tolkien, a complete nerd about it, and loved taking full cred for other people's ideas.

It could be an interesting backstory to read, and I mean really. If only emotions and that childish personal hurr-durr didn't get the better of you.
You may have your reasons for not liking him or disagreeing about his mapping abilities, and I guess people would love to read about that. Perhaps, he could decline an idea of yours back in 1999, because it wasn't Tolkienish enough. But his part of the story didn't end here. Times have changed too, Cip eventually stopped relying on players' contribution so much and restricting Tibia's lore to the Tolkien-like, while Knightmare was still working on it (and even does until the present day afaik). Claiming that he's been only "rewriting Tolkien's books" ever since - that is something else and it highly undermines the reliability of your opinion.

If you actually put the emotions and personal grudges aside and read my posts, I did not say anything controversial about Knightmare's work. In fact, you both have confirmed what I said about his role. Otherwise, I'm sure you can quote the exact part I'm utterly wrong at, can you?

He did not create everything single handedly, granted. Many players contributed to creating Tibia back in its early days. But it would be a hell of a mess if everything could be merged just like that. He took the ideas he found interesting, added his own, forwarded them to Cip, took their comments, sure... again, there's a whole process from one player's idea/proposal to a fully functional and balanced map with detailed and consistent lore. You both have confirmed he's done the managing through this process, and more (including some writing and mapping). He was eventually employed by Cip and have been working for them until the present day. This already differs greatly from "his only job ever was to rewrite some Tolkien's books". He didn't make all of it by himself, true, but in some period he was personally responsible for the map and lore, hence he will be getting his credit for that. Whether you think he deserves smaller or bigger part of that credit, it's another story.

But yea, let's say it's all only because he was lucky to join Cipsoft, and for all the years working for them. Must be one of the luckiest men on Earth.

By the way, you did not mind my arguments back when I was helping you in several threads. Somehow, I didn't only think I knew something then? Where did that personal grudge, that you clearly have, even came from, if I may ask?

Beo · Feb 9, 2023

Another day, another thread on otland that's turned into comparing dick sizes on a protocol / game version / history that's dead.

TibiCAM · Feb 9, 2023

Just to clarify: It was NOT me who started talking about other members of Otland here. It's a weird coincidence that almost every thread kay enters will receive a bunch of off-topic posts. I wonder why! Hope he's finished.

Let's get back to the topic of discussing CipSoft's Creator tool and how a such tool could be useful in OT communities.

kay · Feb 9, 2023

TibiCAM said:
Just to clarify: It was NOT me who started talking about other members of Otland here. It's a weird coincidence that almost every thread kay enters will receive a bunch of off-topic posts. I wonder why! Hope he's finished.

Let's get back to the topic of discussing CipSoft's Creator tool and how a such tool could be useful in OT communities.

Excuse me, but if you want to clarify something, let's start from getting the facts straight. The topic evolved from Cipsoft's tools to their mappers, someone mentioned Knightmare, and then you added lore to it yourself. It's natural for the forum discussions to evolve into related side topics, and this happened here before my presence. But when I only dared to disagree with your claim (where I wasn't even the only one) it suddenly became an offtopic? Unlikely.

All my posts were strictly focused on the topic that was already being discussed - except for when I mentioned that you let your emotions get the better of you, when you could just write an interesting story instead; and except for the very last part where I only asked why you even hold such a grudge against me.

It was coronal who first wrote an essay about "who is who and who knows who", but at least it was somehow relevant to the topic. However, you followed that with your "it's kay again, fuck kay, kay is asshole" for no apparent reason, and started your argumenta ad personam fiesta. You even attempted to create my psychological profile (which I completely ignored), based only on the fact that I referred to you as one's pal, as if it was insultive. Even now, you claim to be willing to get back to the main topic, yet still writing shit about me in the very same post. This is what makes the actual offtopic here. The topic of the discussion wasn't me, but Tibian mappers (Knightmare in particular) and I sticked to that.

I will exercise my right to disagree with your claims about Knightmare. I don't question that you may be an old player, because I don't know you personally. But firstly, an opinion doesn't become more valid only because it gets older. Secondly, you have no idea how old I am and what I have (or have not) been through in this game either (and I'm not going to discuss it here). Next time, if you wanna talk, then refer to what I actually post on-topic, rather than talking about my person. This could help us both stay on-topic. In other case, you can always refrain from taking part in discussions if you have trouble accepting that people may disagree with you (and it doesn't necessairly mean they want to casually argue with you).

frostedflakes said:
Knightmare's maps certainly have fleshed out lore and fit perfectly into Tibia but come on there's a bunch of OT maps that are wayyyy better than CipSoft could ever do.

The main difference, and what probably makes most people think that Knightmare was superior (together with all the players who contributed to his work - for emphasis) is that the OT maps very often lack that depth. They are created entirely by mappers and they look nice in show-off, but there's no lore to it, no feeling, no consistency, and very often no proper balance. Just fancy looking stuff put together. In Tibia the map and the lore were one. This is where imo Knightmare did his best job, that over years he managed to put all the puzzles together properly. The map and lore were consistent and balanced (well, almost, cause there were some inconsistencies, errors and balance issues as well; but not so much comparing to the OT). While the OT maps are very often more of an eye-candy than actual maps in this context. They look nice, but that's it.
Of course, there is some nostalgia bias too, and mind, that all the above is highly generalized and may not fully reflect my personal opinion.
But it's very noticable that Tibian mapping got much worse over time, with only some exceptions. All those wide open areas packed with mobs look as if they were automatically generated without much thought into them, and I have to agree they are no better than casual OT maps.

As for their tool, it was kinda obvious that they already had one for all those things, and not just the map. Firstly, because it's convenient - especially with their scripts mostly being based on coordinates (although the presence of some old and outdated scripts indicate that it might have been not as clear as in those screenshots). And secondly, we can tell that by how their (stolen) files look inside. However, some of these files were clearly altered manually too, which we can tell by the differences in white spaces / tabs in some parts. Probably some quick fixes have been made here and there. The editor itself looks exactly as one could expect an editor to look like, honestly. It doesn't differ that much from RME in its look, but that's not surprising. That's what game map editors usually look like.

Antony Cordeiro · Feb 9, 2023

TibiCAM said:
He mapped some, but he mainly wrote lore and came up with the ideas and concepts of areas. The mapping was often done by others during his time he was active in the game. But a lot of his lore came directly from J.R.R. Tolkien, so he really isn't that good at neither mapping or coming up with lore in Tibia haha. I'd say he is mediocre at best and highly overrated. He got lucky that he was among the first to join CipSoft. It's the only job he's ever had, rewriting J.R.R. Tolkien's books into Tibia. There's so many allusions he has made in Tibia.

I have created a list of such locations based on interviews and news from the Tibia homepage. It is worth noting that in some cases, Knightmare may have had only a minimal impact in creating these locations. Some locations on the list may be debatable such as Darashia and Port Hope. Because so far I have not found very convincing statements on this topic.

The Big Old One and Kazordoon

„Dwarven Mountain made by Knightmare in the middle of Tibia”

Source: Tibia - News (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=12)

„With that been done I took up the abandoned Ab'Dendriel and Kazordoon projects. „

Source: Entrevista TibiaBR entrevista Knightmare (https://forums.tibiabr.com/threads/378403-TibiaBR-entrevista-Knightmare?p=5353142#post5353142)

Ab’Dendriel

„Elven Town made by Knightmare and Taghor north of the Hills”

Source: Tibia - News (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=12)

„With that been done I took up the abandoned Ab'Dendriel and Kazordoon projects. „

Source: https://forums.tibiabr.com/threads/378403-TibiaBR-entrevista-Knightmare?p=5353142#post5353142

Rookgaard

„Enlargement of the Newbie Island (by Knightmare)”

Source: Tibia - News (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=23)

„For a long time I liked Rookgaard best. I created it from the scratch and it provided a rounded up challenge with an appropriate progression in it's limited content and was nicely balanced.”

Source: Entrevista TibiaBR entrevista Knightmare (https://forums.tibiabr.com/threads/378403-TibiaBR-entrevista-Knightmare?p=5353142#post5353142)

Edron

„A new island has been discovered far out in the east. Settlers from Thais have founded the colony Edron there, and the Royal Tibia Line has established a shipping route to and from it. Now this isle waits to be explored. Many thanks to Knightmare who has designed this area.„

Source: Tibia - News (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=93)

Venore

„Knightmare has designed a great - in a twofold sense: huge and fascinating - area, the city of Venore in the East of the main continent and its surroundings.”

Source: Tibia - News (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=173)

Pits of Inferno

„My submissions sometimes were too ambitious and therefore it took one of my oldest creations, the Pits of Inferno, several years to be properly added into the game.”

Source: Tibia - News (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=805)

Isle of Evil

„Knightmare writes a lot of the great stories as well as larger and challenging questlines like The New Frontier or some crazy ones like Isle of Evil.”

Source: Tibia - Featured Article (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=1189)

Zao

„Zao offers players many new challenges and areas to explore but also has a rich background story which was mainly developed by Knightmare”

Source: Tibia - Featured Article (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=1189)

Plains of Havoc

„I got accustomed to the tool and finished the first version of the Plains of Havoc”

Source: Entrevista TibiaBR entrevista Knightmare (https://forums.tibiabr.com/threads/378403-TibiaBR-entrevista-Knightmare?p=5353142#post5353142)

Ankrahmun Tombs

„When I created the Ankrahmun Tombs I had this Indiana Jones scene in my mind, in which he had to flee from this rolling boulder.”

Source: Entrevista TibiaBR entrevista Knightmare (https://forums.tibiabr.com/threads/378403-TibiaBR-entrevista-Knightmare?p=5353142#post5353142)

Ankrahmun

„Knightmare clarifies that when he actually started working for CipSoft and it all went to a more professional level, there were indeed rules he had to follow concerning the content of the game. Everything was checked by Steve, who, according to Knightmare, was not a fan of too exotic experiments. Mixing pirates with fairies, goblins and unicorns, for example, would not have been allowed. Knightmare also remembers that the implementation of Ankrahmun even took quite some persuading on his part.”

Source: Tibia - Featured Article (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=2828)

Port Hope

“Every Tibian under the sun knows for a fact that the world of Tibia has been constructed by volunteers in the past, but in the recent years it has completely designed and conceived by Knightmare. Rookgaard, Edron, Darashia, Port Hope and a plethora of other places has been carefully planned by this young German."

Source: TibiaNews. Chayenne, CipSoft´s Head of Game Content Department, interviewed (http://web.archive.org/web/20060408185538/http://tibianews.net/article.asp?Id=385)

Yalahar

„For curiosity's sake though, I remember I had an idea of invaders from a parallel world or dimension who would try to steal magic and Yalahar (formerly known as Dalahar). It begun as an idea of a city under siege by demon hordes with only the city core intact.”

Source: Tibia - Featured Article (https://www.tibia.com/news/?subtopic=newsarchive&id=2828)

„Completely right. It's definitely the biggest city in Tibia. The original idea, the basic spark, derived from the mind of Knightmare who had always wanted to create a really large, round city in state of siege, a bit like the famous historical sieges. The city centre would be the stronghold of the 'good' and the outside ring would form the attack front of the 'evil'. However, again, technical restrictions sometimes prevent us from implementing certain concepts, so the basic idea was changed and developed further by Dens Larika, Knightmare and me until it eventually became what Yalahar is now.”

Source: Entrevista com Chayenne (https://forum.portaltibia.com.br/topic/11420-entrevista-com-chayenne/?tab=comments#comment-142246)

Darashia

“Every Tibian under the sun knows for a fact that the world of Tibia has been constructed by volunteers in the past, but in the recent years it has completely designed and conceived by Knightmare. Rookgaard, Edron, Darashia, Port Hope and a plethora of other places has been carefully planned by this young German.”

Source: TibiaNews. Chayenne, CipSoft´s Head of Game Content Department, interviewed (http://web.archive.org/web/20060408185538/http://tibianews.net/article.asp?Id=385)

Carlin

„A. Let me see, I did the plains of havoc first, later on Rookgaard, after that Kazordoon, Ab'Dendriel, The Carlin Sewers, and finally Edron.”

Source: Interview with CipSoft (Knightmare) (https://web.archive.org/web/20111105153731/http://www.tibianews.net/component/content/article/83-interviews/682-interview-with-cipsoft-knightmare.html)

„Then I added NPCs to Carlin, where most of the city had indeed be finished already when I took over.”

Source: Portal - Rookie.com.pl (https://web.archive.org/web/20201024121121/https://rookie.com.pl/portal/interviews/knightmare)

Edron Poison Tower

„Or the poison tower on Edron, it just did not look like I wanted it to look. Thats why I probabl never try my luck at a tibian sphinx as I planned to in the past ;o)”

Source: Interview with CipSoft (Knightmare) (https://web.archive.org/web/20111105153731/http://www.tibianews.net/component/content/article/83-interviews/682-interview-with-cipsoft-knightmare.html)

Thais

„The very first thing I did was to pimp the NPCs in Thais who had really not much to say at all.”

Source: Interview with CipSoft (Knightmare) (https://web.archive.org/web/20111105153731/http://www.tibianews.net/component/content/article/83-interviews/682-interview-with-cipsoft-knightmare.html)

Dawnport

„I had only little input in Dawnport - though I think the name was one of my suggestions, but I don't clearly recall. I vaguely remember helping out by adding an area with trolls and some treasure. Aside from that, I think I did only some minor fixing and tweaking.”

Source: Interview with CipSoft (Knightmare) (https://web.archive.org/web/20111105153731/http://www.tibianews.net/component/content/article/83-interviews/682-interview-with-cipsoft-knightmare.html)

The Hive

„I did not create the Hive and the Hive Born however, those came from the quill of Knightmare.”

Source: Setup - Tibia ~ Tibiopedia.pl (https://tibiopedia.pl/forum/t/7132)

Liberty Bay

„As far as I can recall, I actually have added most of my major ideas in some form. What was not possible at a certain point found its way into the game later. Some concepts, though, were never realized. I think I already told somewhere, that the original concept for Liberty Bay was a mixup of the pirate theme with European folklore about unicorns and leprechauns. They would have been the creation of the race that was opposing the creators of the Quarra. In the end, it was decided though that we come up with a more conventional setting. That does not mean though that there will never be unicorns and leprechauns.”

Source: https://tibiaevents.com/knightmare

Annihilator

As this update was introduced CIP made a private Testserver only for SGMs and CIP themselves.
And so it happend that the SGMs Flattery, Faerwynn, Knightmare and Taghor were on the Testserevr together with Steve and Greeny. Knightmare and Steve were showing the new map features and so we came to the Annihilator.

Source: The creation of the Annihilator – Tibiahistory

Paradox Tower

As you perhaps know. The Question about Hugo was long time not known. For many months people tried to solve it. As i was once again there to check it out, Knightmare teleported to me and whispered the right answer to the riddler.
That was very evil back then. He didn’t tell me any hint. he just showed me that it was solveable.

Source: Paradox Tower Teasing – Tibiahistory

Lurkingaround · Feb 10, 2023

kay said:
Excuse me, but if you want to clarify something, let's start from getting the facts straight. The topic evolved from Cipsoft's tools to their mappers, someone mentioned Knightmare, and then you added lore to it yourself. It's natural for the forum discussions to evolve into related side topics, and this happened here before my presence. But when I only dared to disagree with your claim (where I wasn't even the only one) it suddenly became an offtopic? Unlikely.

All my posts were strictly focused on the topic that was already being discussed - except for when I mentioned that you let your emotions get the better of you, when you could just write an interesting story instead; and except for the very last part where I only asked why you even hold such a grudge against me.

It was coronal who first wrote an essay about "who is who and who knows who", but at least it was somehow relevant to the topic. However, you followed that with your "it's kay again, fuck kay, kay is asshole" for no apparent reason, and started your argumenta ad personam fiesta. You even attempted to create my psychological profile (which I completely ignored), based only on the fact that I referred to you as one's pal, as if it was insultive. Even now, you claim to be willing to get back to the main topic, yet still writing shit about me in the very same post. This is what makes the actual offtopic here. The topic of the discussion wasn't me, but Tibian mappers (Knightmare in particular) and I sticked to that.

I will exercise my right to disagree with your claims about Knightmare. I don't question that you may be an old player, because I don't know you personally. But firstly, an opinion doesn't become more valid only because it gets older. Secondly, you have no idea how old I am and what I have (or have not) been through in this game either (and I'm not going to discuss it here). Next time, if you wanna talk, then refer to what I actually post on-topic, rather than talking about my person. This could help us both stay on-topic. In other case, you can always refrain from taking part in discussions if you have trouble accepting that people may disagree with you (and it doesn't necessairly mean they want to casually argue with you).

The main difference, and what probably makes most people think that Knightmare was superior (together with all the players who contributed to his work - for emphasis) is that the OT maps very often lack that depth. They are created entirely by mappers and they look nice in show-off, but there's no lore to it, no feeling, no consistency, and very often no proper balance. Just fancy looking stuff put together. In Tibia the map and the lore were one. This is where imo Knightmare did his best job, that over years he managed to put all the puzzles together properly. The map and lore were consistent and balanced (well, almost, cause there were some inconsistencies, errors and balance issues as well; but not so much comparing to the OT). While the OT maps are very often more of an eye-candy than actual maps in this context. They look nice, but that's it.
Of course, there is some nostalgia bias too, and mind, that all the above is highly generalized and may not fully reflect my personal opinion.
But it's very noticable that Tibian mapping got much worse over time, with only some exceptions. All those wide open areas packed with mobs look as if they were automatically generated without much thought into them, and I have to agree they are no better than casual OT maps.

As for their tool, it was kinda obvious that they already had one for all those things, and not just the map. Firstly, because it's convenient - especially with their scripts mostly being based on coordinates (although the presence of some old and outdated scripts indicate that it might have been not as clear as in those screenshots). And secondly, we can tell that by how their (stolen) files look inside. However, some of these files were clearly altered manually too, which we can tell by the differences in white spaces / tabs in some parts. Probably some quick fixes have been made here and there. The editor itself looks exactly as one could expect an editor to look like, honestly. It doesn't differ that much from RME in its look, but that's not surprising. That's what game map editors usually look like.

ffs stfu already, go make uh traps on your 7.4 guwnica
go to antica and ask vets about knightmare, they know the truth because they remember it, @TibiCAM looks like one of them to me, he's saying the same stuff vets would say

TibiCAM · Feb 10, 2023

Wtf is up with you all. I already said go back to discussing the FUCKING topic (the Creator software by CipSoft). Who gives a shit about Knightmare or how good/bad he is at mapping.

Bunch of babies in here.

Jeez..... and that kay is literally refreshing every second. React with some more laughing emojis 5sec after I post. Get a life.

Rexxar · Feb 10, 2023

Can we please, please, please just go back to discussing this tool and thoughts about it, and perhaps CIP's other tools, server/client inner workings and actually cool stuff. Not this weird drama about what some CIP employee might and might not have written in books. That stuff is SO boring to read.

kay · Feb 10, 2023

TibiCAM said:
Wtf is up with you all. I already said go back to discussing the FUCKING topic (the Creator software by CipSoft). Who gives a shit about Knightmare or how good/bad he is at mapping.

Bunch of babies in here.

Jeez..... and that kay is literally refreshing every second. React with some more laughing emojis 5sec after I post. Get a life.

Dude, you are telling everyone to go back to the topic and calling them babies, but literally in the next sentence you continue your personal attacks on another user... over some emoji reaction. Oh, the irony.

And that's twice already. If you want to get back to the topic, then maybe start writing on topic yourself? No one stops you from doing so, but it seems you are the one who eagerly wants to continue some personal argument.

TibiCAM · Feb 10, 2023

Okay, that was it. Kay is now ignored by me and I can no longer see his posts. First time I ever ignore someone, and that says something. If anyone else wants to go off-topic, feel free to do so on your own risk - but you will be ignored.

I created this topic to discuss the Creator software which is made and used by CipSoft. If you want to discuss anything else, please do so in another thread.

I will ask a mod next time to clean up in here otherwise.

Back to topic.

Jaed Le Raep · Feb 10, 2023

This looks exactly like Zezenia Online's approach to development and that dates all the way back to when I was their mapper back in like, 2010/2011?

CipSoft's "Creator" software (Map Editor and more)

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