Custom OTServ -Predefined Vocations vs No Vocations?

oserc · Feb 25, 2023

I'm currently developing a custom server and I'd like to hear what kind of character building system would you prefer. What you like the most: the classic system, but with custom vocations (you reach a certain level and choose your vocation) or being able to build your character freely, withtout a predefined vocation (such as albion, ultima online, elder scrolls, etc)?
Please, feel free to comment your thoughts or ideas below

/Liro · Feb 26, 2023

Truly love the idea of being able to choose your own path by "customizing" your own class. By being able to use w/e weapons, eq you loot in your way and master your own class.

Eiffel · Feb 26, 2023

While I do think there's more room for fun with an open, undefined system for classes it takes so much work to make it work in an MMO setting. Balancing access to upgrades, sustain, resource upkeep, synergy with other classes, difficulty, and playstyle are just a few avenues that required an incredible amount of effort. Then you have to think about how all of them will work in the context of your game. Then you have to balance the outliers or abuse cases, but also make a ton of different "builds" viable and fun. While in an ideal world this is the goal, I think its nearly impossible to achieve in an MMO setting.

Predefined classes make it easier to balance and create content with certain expectation in mind, and allows for the differences in classes to be more pronounced and appeal to different players. A common archtype is that of someone using bow and range to their advantage? Well now you can create a class for that person that fulfills that fantasy as best as possible without having to think about a million other variables and interactions.

oserc · Feb 26, 2023

Eiffel said:
While I do think there's more room for fun with an open, undefined system for classes it takes so much work to make it work in an MMO setting. Balancing access to upgrades, sustain, resource upkeep, synergy with other classes, difficulty, and playstyle are just a few avenues that required an incredible amount of effort. Then you have to think about how all of them will work in the context of your game. Then you have to balance the outliers or abuse cases, but also make a ton of different "builds" viable and fun. While in an ideal world this is the goal, I think its nearly impossible to achieve in an MMO setting.

Predefined classes make it easier to balance and create content with certain expectation in mind, and allows for the differences in classes to be more pronounced and appeal to different players. A common archtype is that of someone using bow and range to their advantage? Well now you can create a class for that person that fulfills that fantasy as best as possible without having to think about a million other variables and interactions.

Indeed, it is terrible just to think about balancing a no-class system lol. This idea has grown in my mind for the past weeks. No classes, and you increase your basic stats as you level up (str, agi, dex, wisdom, etc), according to your preference. You'll have to meet stat requirements in order to equip certain weapons and equipments (the higher the armor provided, for instance, the more strength points will be needed). Spells will be unlocked depending on the equiped weapon and your correlated skill level.

Of course, as you notice, even though there are no classes/vocations, you still want to think about potential "builds", and make them viable and not overpowered when compared to other build options. Tough work, but I think I can make it work. Still, not sure if that would fit on our community taste.

oen432 · Feb 26, 2023

Runescape way or no way.

lukatxd · Feb 26, 2023

I like the concept but it is too easy to go overboard with it and I already saw many games get broken just because you dumped ALL points in one stat. There was one where if you go full AGI, you would never get hit and attak so fast you couldnt see individual numbers even if they were small damage counts. The other you could go full INT and all your spells would deal insane damage and status conditions scaled with the stat would allow you to turn monsters into stone for over 10 seconds (considered it was a more action focused game, 10 seconds was absurd)

oen432 · Feb 26, 2023

Remove vocations system entirely, every skill has the same exp gain, spells require skill level instead of vocation (exori = X melee fighting), items require skills to wear. Now you can be sorc, knight and pal at the same time, all you have to do is skill enough, equip proper items and that's it. Best way to have no vocations, make it all equal and accessible.
You can even take damage scaling from Runescape

Code:

Ranged attacks are best against Magic users, but weak against Melee.
Magic attacks are best against Melee users, but weak against Ranged.
Melee attacks are best against Ranged users, but weak against Magic.

oserc · Feb 26, 2023

lukatxd said:
I like the concept but it is too easy to go overboard with it and I already saw many games get broken just because you dumped ALL points in one stat. There was one where if you go full AGI, you would never get hit and attak so fast you couldnt see individual numbers even if they were small damage counts. The other you could go full INT and all your spells would deal insane damage and status conditions scaled with the stat would allow you to turn monsters into stone for over 10 seconds (considered it was a more action focused game, 10 seconds was absurd)

I understand, but that seems like a balancing problem, not on the mechanics per se. Blame the game designer lol

Post automatically merged: Feb 26, 2023

oen432 said:
Remove vocations system entirely, every skill has the same exp gain, spells require skill level instead of vocation (exori = X melee fighting), items require skills to wear. Now you can be sorc, knight and pal at the same time, all you have to do is skill enough, equip proper items and that's it. Best way to have no vocations, make it all equal and accessible.

That's what I'm aiming for

actually, albion has a similar mechanic, and it works fine too.

oen432 said:
Ranged attacks are best against Magic users, but weak against Melee. Magic attacks are best against Melee users, but weak against Ranged. Melee attacks are best against Ranged users, but weak against Magic.

Exactly. Thanks for the tip, man!

Siewdass Sf · Feb 26, 2023

lukatxd said:
ALL points in one stat

Click to expand...

This can be fixed, the more points you use in an attribute, less you get, using only a percent, like 80-90% or a percent stage like 100 points 100 damage 110 105 damage.. The think is, if u hit like a truck, u need understand that u can get kill like a fly.

Kuzyn · Feb 27, 2023

It depends. As always, on many factors. No premade vocations sounds more entertaining these days, instead of listening to people complaining that one vocation is better than another. Some day people want to have unique vocations with special abilities and on the other day they change their mind that no matter what vocation they pick, they should be able to do and kill everything

But if you would like to go with voc-less system, you should prototype it hard, even on paper. There are tons of things to think about and you should expect that there will be a significant amount of players who will try to break your system and find some OP meta build.

oserc · Feb 27, 2023

Kuzyn said:
It depends. As always, on many factors. No premade vocations sounds more entertaining these days, instead of listening to people complaining that one vocation is better than another. Some day people want to have unique vocations with special abilities and on the other day they change their mind that no matter what vocation they pick, they should be able to do and kill everything

But if you would like to go with voc-less system, you should prototype it hard, even on paper. There are tons of things to think about and you should expect that there will be a significant amount of players who will try to break your system and find some OP meta build.

Spot on. In my experience so far, it seems easier to balance a game when you have a few predefined vocations to handle. The more freedom you give to players to build up their character, the hardest it gets to balance. No wonder why games with voc-less system, as you said, are often going through changes and new balances. But I'm willing to try, and as the poll score shows, people tend to like better this way

Kuzyn · Feb 28, 2023

oserc said:
Spot on. In my experience so far, it seems easier to balance a game when you have a few predefined vocations to handle. The more freedom you give to players to build up their character, the hardest it gets to balance. No wonder why games with voc-less system, as you said, are often going through changes and new balances. But I'm willing to try, and as the poll score shows, people tend to like better this way

Actually I was talking about voc servers haha

I mean, people are often mad about vocs that they are too similar or they are too different (which may limit some content for them if they are playing solo, but they should decide, you can't have both at once in most cases). But yeah, in general its easier to balance with predefined vocations but here is the trick, we talk about MMO, not a single player game. Its nice to have big advanced system on your own OT but at some point it requires so much work that it would be easier to start your own IP and go away from Tibia.

Custom OTServ -Predefined Vocations vs No Vocations?

Predefined Vocations (knight, sorcerer, druid...) or No Vocations (freely customizable character)?

Predefined Vocations

No Vocations

oserc

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/Liro

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Eiffel

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oserc

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oen432

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lukatxd

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oen432

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oserc

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Siewdass Sf

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Kuzyn

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oserc

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Kuzyn

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