• There is NO official Otland's Discord server and NO official Otland's server list. The Otland's Staff does not manage any Discord server or server list. Moderators or administrator of any Discord server or server lists have NO connection to the Otland's Staff. Do not get scammed!

2022 and Paypal is still doing it

Hes known as a troll
even in rl prob
ignore him
but i could agree with him :D.
In life what you give thats what you get.
I lost 600e paypal( my issue, and i know my fails)
From time im back to this community i only once recieved a charge back for 50+eur in 3x payments, from player who i know how he felt( im crazy active so i see things (investigating players gameplays etc)), so i totaly refuned him all the donations. And can only hope he will come next time and maybe donate and all things will go better, but if i could recieve like second time refund, i would like totaly ban this player in all possible ways.

I believe there is no point to fight with player aka real human being, if he got hurted you gotta solve problem with him, if you cant solve the situation with him, just refund hes payment and write on your own black list... But anyway in all scenarios, what you give in life/ot , whatever is what you will get.
Post automatically merged:

Just a heads up, keep your real life name the same on PayPal as it is on any documents to verify your identity. If it is not, they will lock your account for 180 days and then the funds will unlock to withdraw to a bank account but your PayPal will still be frozen and you'll need to make a new account with the proper name. Speaking from experience..
:( experiencing same stuff, i used my made up project name for paypal...
But what if i can like make up paper work like receipt recieved for this made up name in the adress i can proff etc?
you know this receipts companys do, so kinda like that ?
So i can kinda purshase from some legal shop something in the name of Bla Bla (etc) , in the adress i want to proff adress, .SO i get paper to this from legal shop etc and can be used to get back account ?
and does anyone study real laws ? like common law or UCC etc ?
Post automatically merged:

In Germany, by law, you must run businesses or as freelancer under your real name. And there is a clear reason for this.
what law. :D.. For who ? fictional persona kaa ID/paper ? can you like write this law in english how it sounds exacly ? words are codes in laws, and every word has to be well understood
Post automatically merged:

Well if your using Business account in paypal no matter what u have to use your real name under your business, because in my situation i had to provide idenity cards, bank details, and had to fill IRS shit with my business name and my real name, so creating paypal with your fake name is terrible idea, or not even legal i would assume if paypal finds out, they could ban you, same like using paypal under 18.
study real laws bro. I use paypal from 15 years, and all is legal. i worked for this money. i didint stole from anybody.
you dont even need drivers license to drive car etc.... Tax tax tax, come boys i tax your air to.. :D.... we live in Taxation world, all the goverment companys are comercial companys, they are here to make money and tax ID/card , fiction personas, ( if human agrees he pays) ......
Post automatically merged:


Just look at this, .. the american branch of freemasonic kids made things like Microsoft(great frontman pick for that 1 huh) and Paypal.. then the rebels ended up creating cryptocurrencies/bitcoin.

German branch made Tibia, and then(!) OTLand,..
old news, and facebook, and instagram and more stuff is made by the clans. and we use them anyway to survive right ? ofc its sacrifese of our energy...
and if to look this way, all fiat money is fake so wtf we playing here
 
Last edited:
For shits and giggles, what did the Swedish guy wrote in his/her/them/they/their/zer/non-zir/random3lettercombination claim?
 
For shits and giggles, what did the Swedish guy wrote in his/her/them/they/their/zer/non-zir/random3lettercombination claim?
OT I know but good thing about English is that they/them/their is completely nongendered and applicable to any human no matter what nonsense they identify as
 
Your website needs to have some requiered specifications before players purchase. And you must send evidence about the customer received the virtual goods. I learned how to win against chargebacks thanks to @Phoenix AO He abused of my services and It pushed me to learn about it.

If you need assistance I can give you a copy of the document I sent and you can see how easily win any chargeback case. Also Paypal support guided me on what's what they need to see.

Contact me via Rookgaard Tales Discord or PM me.
 
Last edited:
I have no issues with paypal whatsoever, doing as @Paco said. There will always be scums trying to chargeback, but its soo many ways to make them lose, first one being simply to make the donation an actualy 'donate' in paypal as well, then you wont be able to chargeback it at all even.
 
There will always be scums trying to chargeback, but its soo many ways to make them lose, first one being simply to make the donation an actualy 'donate' in paypal as well, then you wont be able to chargeback it at all even.
I do not recommend it. If you accept a lot of donations and your site sells points - PayPal will check it, probably has some bot to check sites - for them, you can get ban on PayPal. Without warning, without way to unban account and with money blocked for 180 days or even forever.
It's pretty reasonable [from PayPal point of view], as donation fees are few times lower than normal transaction fees.
Donations can be easily chargebacked, if buyer used stolen credit card or says that his card was stolen. More information about credit cards/bank law below.
Your website needs to have some requiered specifications before players purchase. And you must send evidence about the customer received the virtual goods.
From years of Kasteria experience:
  • around 10% of PayPal payments are chargebacked
  • chargeback dispute lose rate is around 100%
  • if you fight chargeback (dispute, post screens and other proofs), you may get extra fine for losing (around 10$), so it's not worth fighting chargeback

From my experience on Kasteria.pl chargebacks:
  • we SOLD points [not donation]
  • send to PayPal screens of players wearing items
  • send to PayPal screens of database rows with points and items deliver
  • send to PayPal movies with delivery of items [from Cam System]
and we still lost around 100% cases.

If someone claims, that credit card was stolen, there is no argue with that and most of chargeback claims are 'card stolen', not 'order not delivered'.
It's part of bank law. You - seller - got to prove that credit card was not stolen and credit card owner bought given thing. In real world, you can use CCTV to show who was in shop. On the internet you got no proof, so you lose every chargeback dispute.

Only disputes you can win are these where someone used PayPal account and money kept on PayPal account. If someone used credit card, it's lost.

// OFFTOPIC: SMS payments in Poland [probably same everywhere, especially in Europe]
We accepted SMS payments on Kasteria.. until someone paid around 2000 EUR in 1 day. I've talked with this guy in-game and he said that he is stealing points in online games for 2 years. He went to forest [where he 'lost' his phone], put his SIM card in some Android tool to send XXX SMSes, get XXXXX points on Kasteria, bought items, sold on Allegro.pl [polish e-bay] for 50% of Kasteria price and went to police to report that his phone was stolen. Getting a police report about 'stolen/lost phone' reverse SMS payments up to 180 days - like on credit card, when you claim that it was stolen.
 
You can get refunds if you send correct informations to paypal, since 2019 (can't check paypal refund history before that) i won in 100% refund claims. Just collect good amount of data from every payment and u will be good.
 
You can get refunds if you send correct informations to paypa
Every PayPal payment has fee around 2.5%, 1% of that is 'fraud insurance'.
Their business model is to pay small companies their money (they refund AND they pay you yours 5-10$) and make money on bigger companies (ex. Kasteria getting XXk EUR per year).
Did you know that after their last year terms changes they get 'fraud insurace' 2 times, when you click 'refund' (without dispute/chargeback) on any payment? Someone sent you money, you don't know why, so you refund and they get their fee 2 times.
 
I do not recommend it. If you accept a lot of donations and your site sells points - PayPal will check it, probably has some bot to check sites - for them, you can get ban on PayPal. Without warning, without way to unban account and with money blocked for 180 days or even forever.
It's pretty reasonable [from PayPal point of view], as donation fees are few times lower than normal transaction fees.
Donations can be easily chargebacked, if buyer used stolen credit card or says that his card was stolen. More information about credit cards/bank law below.

From years of Kasteria experience:
  • around 10% of PayPal payments are chargebacked
  • chargeback dispute lose rate is around 100%
  • if you fight chargeback (dispute, post screens and other proofs), you may get extra fine for losing (around 10$), so it's not worth fighting chargeback

10% chargeback rate is extremely high, and is due to the owners TERRIBLE reputation. it has nothing do with paypal at all.
you will get bad people doing chargebacks sure thats natural. but a 10% rate is entirely on the scummy owners themselves.
if you're also losing 100% of the cases, then lol. that's entirely on you too. I doubt PayPal wants to encourage companies that have 10% chargeback rate, if there's that many chargebacks they know there's something wrong from the SELLERS.
A legitimate "company" running a serious server would not have such rates and paypal will side with legitimate owners. i know this from leaks and friends who run HUGE ots. Way bigger than kasteria kkkk.

so what i can see paypal working as intended, scummy "bisness" owners getting fricked.
 
I do not recommend it. If you accept a lot of donations and your site sells points - PayPal will check it, probably has some bot to check sites - for them, you can get ban on PayPal. Without warning, without way to unban account and with money blocked for 180 days or even forever.
It's pretty reasonable [from PayPal point of view], as donation fees are few times lower than normal transaction fees.
Donations can be easily chargebacked, if buyer used stolen credit card or says that his card was stolen. More information about credit cards/bank law below.

From years of Kasteria experience:
  • around 10% of PayPal payments are chargebacked
  • chargeback dispute lose rate is around 100%
  • if you fight chargeback (dispute, post screens and other proofs), you may get extra fine for losing (around 10$), so it's not worth fighting chargeback

From my experience on Kasteria.pl chargebacks:
  • we SOLD points [not donation]
  • send to PayPal screens of players wearing items
  • send to PayPal screens of database rows with points and items deliver
  • send to PayPal movies with delivery of items [from Cam System]
and we still lost around 100% cases.

If someone claims, that credit card was stolen, there is no argue with that and most of chargeback claims are 'card stolen', not 'order not delivered'.
It's part of bank law. You - seller - got to prove that credit card was not stolen and credit card owner bought given thing. In real world, you can use CCTV to show who was in shop. On the internet you got no proof, so you lose every chargeback dispute.

Only disputes you can win are these where someone used PayPal account and money kept on PayPal account. If someone used credit card, it's lost.

// OFFTOPIC: SMS payments in Poland [probably same everywhere, especially in Europe]
We accepted SMS payments on Kasteria.. until someone paid around 2000 EUR in 1 day. I've talked with this guy in-game and he said that he is stealing points in online games for 2 years. He went to forest [where he 'lost' his phone], put his SIM card in some Android tool to send XXX SMSes, get XXXXX points on Kasteria, bought items, sold on Allegro.pl [polish e-bay] for 50% of Kasteria price and went to police to report that his phone was stolen. Getting a police report about 'stolen/lost phone' reverse SMS payments up to 180 days - like on credit card, when you claim that it was stolen.
100% How come I win then? Where did ya get those statics?
You need to prove that the virtual goods were properly delivered to their* account, at least in my cases.
 
Last edited:
If someone claims, that credit card was stolen, there is no argue with that and most of chargeback claims are 'card stolen', not 'order not delivered'.
It's part of bank law. You - seller - got to prove that credit card was not stolen and credit card owner bought given thing. In real world, you can use CCTV to show who was in shop. On the internet you got no proof, so you lose every chargeback dispute.
If the transaction is verified via 3-D Secure the responsibility is moved onto the card issuer and in case the card was compromised they may be the ones to have to cover the loss, but not the seller. Also 10% chargebacks rate is insane, honestly. I know there are many scammers around, but with such a high rate you may need to consider whether part of the fault is not on your side.
Either way, there is zero point to use paypal. As you said, they close people's accounts without notice, providing no reason and basically taking over their money, because they can. The fees are also high, especially the conversion rates, and they force you to convert before withdrawing the money, basing on your IBAN (doesn't matter if your bank account uses the same currency). Absolutely shitty company with incredibly poor support.
 
Why is your system not saving purchases in the database? Multiple players with me withdrew payments giving false reasons.

PAYPAL ALWAYS UNLOCKED MY FUNDS AND KEEP MY PAGE AS I ONLY SENT PURCHASE LOGS FROM THE DATABASE!
 
If the transaction is verified via 3-D Secure the responsibility is moved onto the card issuer and in case the card was compromised they may be the ones to have to cover the loss, but not the seller. Also 10% chargebacks rate is insane, honestly. I know there are many scammers around, but with such a high rate you may need to consider whether part of the fault is not on your side.
Either way, there is zero point to use paypal. As you said, they close people's accounts without notice, providing no reason and basically taking over their money, because they can. The fees are also high, especially the conversion rates, and they force you to convert before withdrawing the money, basing on your IBAN (doesn't matter if your bank account uses the same currency). Absolutely shitty company with incredibly poor support.
Just to mention, most of the chargebacks back in times has been made by Spain people (they were buying points, selling these for cheaper price to other players and after couple of days chargeback the payment) - that's why I have decided to block that country at all from our website. It shouldn't be a problem to fight back on long-lasting server like your, however if these are month or two months editions people just doesn't care if they are gonna be banned on their character or not.
 
THEREFORE YOU SHOULD USE THE "_DONATE" OPTION IN PAYPAL. THESE FUNDS CANNOT BE BLOCKED OR RETURNED, THIS IS A DONATION
 
Just to mention, most of the chargebacks back in times has been made by Spain people (they were buying points, selling these for cheaper price to other players and after couple of days chargeback the payment) - that's why I have decided to block that country at all from our website. It shouldn't be a problem to fight back on long-lasting server like your, however if these are month or two months editions people just doesn't care if they are gonna be banned on their character or not.
We have came across such people too and I don't doubt they may be even using stolen cards for real. But you can always try to put some restrictions as to how many points one player can buy, basing on the account's history, level of the character etc. Sure they may still not care about the ban, but you can make the process more tedious and time consuming. And most importantly, as I said, if 3-D Secure is applied, they cannot just say "hey, the card was stolen, gimmi back my moni". If anything, it would be the card issuer, not paypal or the seller. They can still dispute in a normal way though, but the only option is to claim that they have not received the goods - and here you should have a very strong and valid point: if they were not receiveing the points, why did they even continue purchasing them and proceeding with further payments? Assuming that you do not allow buying any number of points with one transaction just like that.
Still, paypal is a shitty and scammy company and should be avoided at all cost.
THEREFORE YOU SHOULD USE THE "_DONATE" OPTION IN PAYPAL. THESE FUNDS CANNOT BE BLOCKED OR RETURNED, THIS IS A DONATION
It doesn't matter what you call it, when someone claims a stolen card any transaction can be charged back, unless it was verified. And pretending that it's a donation, when you're actually selling stuff is not right.
 
Last edited:
We have came across such people too and I don't doubt they may be even using stolen cards for real. But you can always try to put some restrictions as to how many points one player can buy, basing on the account's history, level of the character etc. Sure they may still not care about the ban, but you can make the process more tedious and time consuming. And most importantly, as I said, if 3-D Secure is applied, they cannot just say "hey, the card was stolen, gimmi back my moni". If anything, it would be the card issuer, not paypal or the seller. They can still dispute in a normal way though, but the only option is to claim that they have not received the goods - and here you should have a very strong and valid point: if they were not receiveing the points, why did they even continue purchasing them and proceeding with further payments? Assuming that you do not allow buying any number of points with one transaction just like that.
Still, paypal is a shitty and scammy company and should be avoided at all cost.

It doesn't matter what you call it, when someone claims a stolen card any transaction can be charged back, unless it was verified. And pretending that it's a donation, when you're actually selling stuff is not right.
Accepting donations instead of "selling a product" is how you should be doing it if you don't plan to run the OT as a business/want to pay taxes on your hobby. If it is purely for self joy, donations can be accepted and defended legally, otherwise; yes.. register it as a business and claim it on taxes. Also allows you to apply for grants and start ups. Atleast in Canada.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top