OTClient "Community"

[Dante_]

So I have a question to pose to the creators of OTClient. Now before I get into this and you all assume I'm being a prick; just know I have high respect for Edu, BeniS, Summ and all other OTClient contributors. With that said here comes my question:

You guys keep claiming you won't allow closed modules because you want it to be "open source" so the community can all help each other with expanding this project. Yet the second anyone needs any sort of help with compiling or sorting out an error there is next to no help from the creators.

How can you push such a message when you are unwilling to backup your product. I'm not claiming I could make a better product or anything close to it; but why so little help in getting more people on the client? You claim you want expansion and a great community project, but you won't even help with the simplest of errors.

My question to you is; why? Why the hypocrisy? Unless you just want the people with decent knowledge of lua/C++ running OTClient. Then in that case you should add a closed source version.

I mean, I've had help from Talaturen, Elf, Remere amongst other people during the times they were most busy. I've never once had help from Edu, BeniS or Summ. Just a "I don't know, ask xxxxx" response or an argument over why modules are open source.

Now, I'm not trying to bash anyone here, but I am trying to get my point across as strong as I can. It's this very reason that I'm not at ease with releasing any modules I create; because there's no support for the product from the creator.

 

[Summ]

Github is simply no support board it is for reporting bug issues.
If I don't have time or don't know what the issue when someone has problems compiling I also cannot help.
For people who want to use the client to play there are compiled releases and people trying to contribute should be able to compile/google in my opinion, however they can still ask for help.

 

[Dante_]

Github is simply no support board it is for reporting bug issues.
If I don't have time or don't know what the issue when someone has problems compiling I also cannot help.
For people who want to use the client to play there are compiled releases and people trying to contribute should be able to compile/google in my opinion, however they can still ask for help.

I completely agree with you about compiling/googling, but when people ask for help, an answer is given, and regardless of whether the answer helps or not, the thread is forgotten about. .-. I just think there should be a bit more support on this forum for such a great project versus the current support it's receiving.

 

[Fallen]

There are 3 guides for compiling in the wiki, you do not need any help if you follow appropriate one for your platform correctly (It's straight-forward). The issues over github can be used to report compiling issues, bugs, feature requests, etc. Also the forum over here. Edubart does not like visiting forums in general.

About closed source modules, are you trying to say that we do not support compressing modules into the executable or just compressing the modules so it's not even decompress-able unless the server owner does it by using some program? It's a bloody stupid idea. Modules is actually the most useful thing and is the project's heart, you know why? because it helps customize the client as much as the user wishes, having modules closed-source defeats the project's slogan.

P.S.: why am I not on the list!?!?!?! I'm the most awesome developer, jokes.

 

[Dante_]

There are 3 guides for compiling in the wiki, you do not need any help if you follow appropriate one for your platform correctly (It's straight-forward). The issues over github can be used to report compiling issues, bugs, feature requests, etc. Also the forum over here. Edubart does not like visiting forums in general.

About closed source modules, are you trying to say that we do not support compressing modules into the executable or just compressing the modules so it's not even decompress-able unless the server owner does it by using some program? It's a bloody stupid idea. Modules is actually the most useful thing and is the project's heart, you know why? because it helps customize the client as much as the user wishes, having modules closed-source defeats the project's slogan.

P.S.: why am I not on the list!?!?!?! I'm the most awesome developer, jokes.

Compiling is no longer the issue. It's the help requests that remain unanswered or that receive a false answer and are never revisited. That's where the problems come into play. I'm not a fan of spoon feeding, but there's plenty of things in OTClient that would be great if they had a small explanation to them.

As for the closed source modules; what's the point in the Mods folder then? There's a Modules and a Mod folder. Apparently they serve the exact same purpose. Why can't the modules be close sourceable, and the mods remain open? Having 2 folders that serve the same purpose and both reacting identical seems extremely pointless.

I have nothing against open sourced mods and sharing ideas with the community, as I've stated previously; but why is there no support whatsoever for a closed source version of the modules? Is money the language for closed source modules? Because I'd be willing to pay a pretty penny for someone to help me make my modules closed source.

That's not the point though; I just think there should be more support on here than there currently is. The forum is flooded with more unanswered help requests than actual features or helpful threats.

 

[Fallen]

I understand what you mean, but just give me a good idea on how would a developer go by implementing closed source modules and you shall have it. I got 0 ideas for this, except the compressing thing and i'm quite sure it won't work out well.

Also, take a look at it this way, many games like Heroes of Newerth release their game client along with a lot of texture files and core files, they haven't tried hiding it from the user, you know why? so that he can customize his game view and so on. However, there are some games you cannot see any of the files used and is just customizable by using a few options available inside the game. We do not want the 2nd option, let me quote OTClient's slogan again "An alternative tibia client for otserv written in C++2011, made with a modular system that uses lua scripts for ingame interface and functionality, making otclient flexible and easy to customize".

But then again, give me a good idea to implement closed source modules, and maybe i'll consider it. There's also a way of doing this thing, you can zip the modules and otclient can still load them, currently supported archive types (by physfs):

• .ZIP (pkZip/WinZip/Info-ZIP compatible)
• .GRP (Build Engine groupfile archives)
• .PAK (Quake I/II archive format)
• .HOG (Descent I/II HOG file archives)
• .MVL (Descent II movielib archives)
• .WAD (DOOM engine archives)

 

[Dante_]

I understand what you mean, but just give me a good idea on how would a developer go by implementing closed source modules and you shall have it. I got 0 ideas for this, except the compressing thing and i'm quite sure it won't work out well.

Also, take a look at it this way, many games like Heroes of Newerth release their game client along with a lot of texture files and core files, they haven't tried hiding it from the user, you know why? so that he can customize his game view and so on. However, there are some games you cannot see any of the files used and is just customizable by using a few options available inside the game. We do not want the 2nd option, let me quote OTClient's slogan again "An alternative tibia client for otserv written in C++2011, made with a modular system that uses lua scripts for ingame interface and functionality, making otclient flexible and easy to customize".

But then again, give me a good idea to implement closed source modules, and maybe i'll consider it. There's also a way of doing this thing, you can zip the modules and otclient can still load them, currently supported archive types (by physfs):

• .ZIP (pkZip/WinZip/Info-ZIP compatible)
• .GRP (Build Engine groupfile archives)
• .PAK (Quake I/II archive format)
• .HOG (Descent I/II HOG file archives)
• .MVL (Descent II movielib archives)
• .WAD (DOOM engine archives)

An easy way would be LUAC and changing the literal read in of the modules to luaL_dofile. I myself do not have the C++ knowledge to pull it off but like I said there's the /mods/ folder. Which is /modules/ verbatim with no base folders in it. All you'd need to do is modify the LuaInterface.cpp since it overrides the dofile and makes it all literal.

If not that, then as you; I'm beat with how to pull off what PxG Games did.

Don't get me wrong, I only say the easy way because it's the easiest way to protect code from noobies. Though I also know it's obvious if someone really wants your code, they'll get access to it. But it's nice to know there's a possibility of having closed modules.

I myself would love to help with OTClient public modules to help make OTClient better than Tibia. There's just things that I'd personally enjoy keeping to myself. It already has the capability; just needs the commitment of scripters as well.

I'd love to share to expand the project. I'm great at the .lua part, but not amazing at the C++ part to help with what the developers themselves can do. That's all this project really needs; a few forum dedicated scripters and coders.

 

[Summ]

If you are willing to help you can add me in Skype and I am sure I can help you. I am also sure that edubart is willing to give you a hand whenever he has time for it if you are eager to help the project.
It is just really not rewarding if you chew everything for the people asking stuff here if in the end it is solely for their own purpose.

 

[conde2]

Baxnie helped me a lot in the beginning, in return every time I can, I help with commits!
Is that I expect from pepople who came to me willing help, but it's no what is happening, they ask me to do modules or help for theirs own projects, that's doesn't help the community, but if I see thy are with good intention then I will be gladly to help

 

[Sportacus]

... Just a little remark about compressing the files into an .exe/closing off modules.


The only good reason for compressing the files into an .exe is to be used with a specific server, that has specific game rules and features.

The OT Client gives us a really good base to make a custom client, so it is easy to see why people would use it for this purpose.


When a server is made, there are some game features/limitations the makers of the game want to enforce onto player.

One of those I personally want to enforce, is the light system that tibia has.

By removing the 'ambient light' feature, forcing light effects on, and turning the game very 'dark', you can revert cipsofts decision to kill their own light system.


This makes it so the game is extremely dark in caves, different times of day actually effect gameplay, and brings back 'light sources' into the game.

Managing torches and light spells becomes apart of the game again, and adds in more 'depth' to the game, and the darkness experienced in caves sets the 'mood'/'feeling' better, really putting you into the mindset of someone exploring a dangerous cave.

With 'open' modules, players can easily add ambient light back in, completely nullifying the light system.

So it makes sense that people would want to close off module editing based on wanting to enforce their own game rules/features/limitations.