• There is NO official Otland's Discord server and NO official Otland's server list. The Otland's Staff does not manage any Discord server or server list. Moderators or administrator of any Discord server or server lists have NO connection to the Otland's Staff. Do not get scammed!

[Poll] The Paladin

Increase min damage of distance fighting

  • Total voters
    36
S

Singularity

Active Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
79
Reaction score
36
This will only be in effect for PVP.

For those playing a Paladin, they would understand this.

When ever engaging in a (1 vs. 1) environment, the likelihood of a Paladin actually defeating their target solo, is unlikely.

Their hits are based on using their weapon, which has random probability to deal extremely high (luck) damage or extremely low damage (miss, block) in combination with low damage spells makes it pathetic.

While the other Vocations have somewhat of a “finishing” move Paladins do not have that luxury (Utito Tempo San, their coup de grâce has too many negatives and that large possibility to fail). It is all based on probability.

Freyja's proposal is as follows; for Paladin's to have a higher min damage either by:
  1. ½ or ⅓ of their max damage
    or
  2. scale up their min damage to a cap (⅓) when moving x sqm from their target and decreasing when they get too far, thus staying at a “sweet spot” and fighting at a distance as they are designed to.
 
Last edited:
I think their dng is overpowered already they can hit consecutive 500+ atks + exori san or w.e and that's dealing more then a mage
 
Consecutive 500 damage per turn would be ridiculously lucky.

Freyja did an experiment using calculators from Tibia-Stats and a Random Number Generator with the min/max values from Tibia-Stats in a round of 20.

Here are the results in a neat chart for those that do not want to read numbers:

EVBecxu.png


Knight
* Level: 300
* Magic: 12
* Skill: 175 (Blood Rage)
* Weapon: Demon Wing Axe (53 attack)

Paladin
* Level: 300
* Magic: 35
* Skill: 210 (Utito Tempo San)
* Weapon: Mythological Bow + Crystalline Arrow

Mage
* Level: 300
* Magic: 145
* Strongest wand/rod

Do you not see what is wrong here?

While the Mage and Knight have quite similar and consistent averages; with the Knight being higher, the Paladin does not only have the lowest damage over time and per turn - their averages are far below the other classes and fluxes often, so do not say their damage is fine. It would have been even lower had armor been calculated in.

Attached is a excel spreadsheet with the numbers.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Sorry, I might be drunk right now, but you have not convinced me even the slightest. First of all I know for a fact that Knights hit waaaay lower than Mages, and with a good reason as well. Mages have LOW health, and high damage. Knights have slightly low damage (not too low) and high health pool. Also knight have to catch up with an enemy to damage them (paladins can do this at a distance together with mages). A paladin has medium health pool and medium damage. Paladins beat Knights at damage because they can do it at a distance and because they really hit more (atk of infernal bolts is way higher than solar axe or demonwing axe). Though paladins do not beat mages consistency in damage output. Mages can hit sds with around 400 - 500 damage. Paladins might hit higher than that, but they only do with lucky shots. Meaning that mages have low health pool but deal consistent HIGH damage. Paladins have medium health pool and can combo SDs, exori san or whatever and deal very HIGH damages, but there is a possibility that they hit very low with their bolts/arrows. Knights on the other hand have only the meele damage to rely on (except for exori hur). They can't hit as much as paladins.. They might get a combo and hit higher than what a mage hit with Blood rage and exori gran ico, but they will never hit consistently that much. (When I say consistently I mean hit that 2 or more times in a row).

I really don't think Paladins are underpowered here, but I do think Paladins and Knights have a considerably less advantage compared to real tibia. On real tibia most people would probably choose a knight or paladin because they are easier. All because of the slow mana regeneration. The mana regeneration on this server really benefits mages the most. They can heal forever (as long as they eat food) in a 1 versus 1 scenario (considering they have a high enough mana pool to take on 1 second of damage - which is the exhaust time of healing spells).

But to just address the chart you gave:
I may have overlooked some factors that you didn't include in your chart, but I can guarantee you that knights don't hit more than Mages on average. Also I don't think you have included spells in your calculations, which changes this perspective a lot. Mages can hit about 50 with their wands. + about 400 - 500 with their sds... We can consider that a regular attack in a pvp scenario. Paladins on the other hand have a 92% chance (without using weapons and ammo that increases this value) to hit and then they might hit as low as Knights and much higher than knights (according to you up to 766). Now that is just "meele" damage, they still have their "exhaust to waste". Which means they can throw an sd. Now I AM NO EXPERT in the field, so I do not know of paladins spells and how much they hit, but I know that they hit about 250 with sds. Which means they can hit 900 damage, which is about the same as an UE from a master sorcerer and way above what any druid can ever except to deal in a pvp scenario.

Now I know this is just a chance, and the real chance of you hitting 700 is really low. But even hitting on average 398 damage together with your spells/runes, making it on average 500 - 600.. I don't really see the underpowered-ness (if I may call it that) in that damage output. It may even seem like you hit more than mages (though you vary a lot from 30 to 700(!!! I can't believe 700 wtf)). I really don't see any reason for this update.


I am terribly sorry for writing this in an intoxicated condition.
 
In a 1 vs. 1 scenario, there are too many factors to consider to truly narrow it down.

Here are Freyja's (squished) observations.

Paladins are entirely dependent on their weapon to deal damage which has a probability to hit extremely high. Their spells are extremely weak, hitting around 60~180* damage and rotating between Exori Con, Exori Gran Con and Exori San. Never was it seen so far by Freyja, a Paladin hitting 250~ with an SD, rather averaging around 150~190* damage + their weapon (0~480*).

Remember that Sharpshooting is a two-edged sword, for gaining the benefit of skill bonuses you lose the ability to run away, heal, or block attacks. When a Paladin does activate Sharpshooting to combo their target and kill them it usually does not happen because of that probability (you either miss, hit a pathetic amount of damage or it is blocked by the target's armor, you also may use potions but doing blocks you from attacking!) stated earlier paired with their weak hitting spells.

Now look at the other classes. Yes, Knights hit “weaker” amounts of damage than a Mage but even when they are exhausted, they can rotate their spells for a consistent amount of damage (0~300* melee + 200~ 300* spell damage) which makes up their random melee damage and when combined it can be deadly. They also have that finishing move available to them every once a while thrown into that rotation. Mages have a small health pool because of the vast amount damage they can deal in a single instance with their runes and spells. The large regeneration on these servers give them the advantage of becoming immortal as long as they do not get hit too much damage (they also have SSA as do the other vocations). SD as their main single target ability which never misses, is static (min/max are extremely close to each other) and their spells (nerfed on LunarForce) are extremely deadly dealing around 400~700 damage.

What Freyja is trying to say here. Yes, they hit a lot but think about it; beside the Paladin, the other classes have some way of “killing” their target. The only time a Paladin would have killed their target was because of luck as what they use for their coup de grâce has too many negatives and that horrible probability.

The values on the chart are not accurate (armor/resistances wasn't even included and are from the data hoarding statistics, not official formulas) and the Paladin with a ridiculous distance level (210) through Utito Tempo San (with those negatives makes it unlikely to be used 1 vs. 1 often).
 
Last edited:
no not more consistent they should remain there not meant to be liable
 
They so do not heal 1400~ more likely around 1200~ which is about the same as UHP + Exura Ico from Knights.

* Also noted; when a Paladin uses potions/runes they cannot attack with their weapon by exhaust.

Summary of their impairment:
a. Item use exhaust
b. Randomness (default by weapon) + weak offensive spells
c. Coup de grâce has too many negatives for a measly bonus
d. Physical resistances + high healing of other Vocations

(Don't say, "Go switch classes then." I rather not as I <3 Paladins and will bring forth what I think would improve them.)
 
Increase dmg of pallys










































AHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
Im out.
 
I am losing brain cells trying to convince these people that it is not about increasing the Paladin's damage but to make them more consistent (where it is hurting them). I am doubting that those giving their opinion are even playing a Paladin.

Staff input would nice right now.
 
Back
Top