• There is NO official Otland's Discord server and NO official Otland's server list. The Otland's Staff does not manage any Discord server or server list. Moderators or administrator of any Discord server or server lists have NO connection to the Otland's Staff. Do not get scammed!

Suggestion Remove otservlist subforum

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kay

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As in the title, I'm suggesting to remove that subforum.
It doesn't seem like there is any interest anyway, only about 10 posts were sent this year.
Not even xinn seems to care at all, as he's not answering there (and lately not even visiting otland at all).

Besides, I don't see a reason why this particular service is promoted (especially when it appears in otland board which may mislead people to think otland and otservlist are one, despite the red warnings inside).

Maybe that's one of the reasons why we don't see any proper initiatives in that matter - because it looks like otservlist has developed a monopoly within otland. I'm referring here to discussions such as: Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site? (https://otland.net/threads/should-otland-open-new-otserverlist-site.272217/)

So if anything, maybe create a subforum for ots lists in general, where admins could post threads about their sites in which the users would discuss them (similarly to "server gala")?

Of course there would be only several threads at best and probably not much traffic too, but I still find it better to create an environment for fair competition rather than greatly favor one particular service for unknown reasons. Otherwise just remove that subforum.

Edit by @Znote:

Mod reply:
I read about two suggestions here, the first one is to remove the OTServlist board, and the second one is for OTLand to create our own OTSList. I can understand how the two suggestions can correlate with each other (but it's not a given). The board can still exist, whether or not we decide to adjust our own advertisement method of servers.

As has already been mentioned in a post above, OTServlist redirects traffic to OTLand (vice versa), and while neither I know the details of when and why the cooperation agreement between the two was made, I can still see the benefits of still having it.

Just wanted to let you know that we've noticed the thread and the feedback from other users regarding these two topics.

Hope you guys are having a good day today, it's really nice weather here in Stockholm today! 🌞🌻

Admin reply:
We link to that server list (and maintain a forum for it), because their website links to us in the main menu (the specific sub-forum).

There may be may reasons to like or dislike this list but I don't think us having the forum is any form of advertising it. We used to host so-called "Hosted Project Boards" back in the days, and many projects were relying on it instead of building their own forums. Building own forums became much easier and most other boards were retired with the exception of this one, because the website still exists (while other projects mostly ceased to function) and hasn't chosen to build its own forum. Other projects that would have had forums a while back (such as AACs) now use GitHub issues or discussion and also don't need to have such a forum.

The Otservlist board was specifically placed at the bottom of all the forums but since someone assumed that it being in the "Otland" category implies association, it was moved to the "Community Chatboards" category, therefore going up on the list. We don't have (nor need) a dedicated Hosterd Project Boards category to put it in separately, which would also make it more visible and cost more space.

If there was any other server list or really any OT project of any kind willing to have a project board and it would make sense, I'm still open to do that. Unfortunately, we haven't seen any other server list that would actually live long and have any substantial traffic and ask for a project board, which is why this one remains the only one.

Again, there is no association, no sponsoring, nothing to gain for us from having the board. But most importantly, there is nothing to gain from removing it at this point, which is why I'm not removing it.

there is no secret or lucrative arrangement between us and otservlist.org. We have hosted the "project board" pretty much forever and continue to do so because the alternative is simply for xinn to set up his own forum. Instead, it seems easier to have one larger forum. There is no endorsement, however. I know this forums stands out because all other "hosted project boards" are now defunct and hidden, due to those projects simply not being active. It is still simply a hosted project board.

This open discussion can continue and no decision has been made yet, nor am I implying that there is one necessarily coming. Civilized posts here won't be deleted and everyone can have their own opinion.

Official reply from owner of otservlist:
 
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Don Daniello

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Does the staff mind at least telling us which part of Gesior's post was a lie?

@Kaspar @Don Daniello sorry for tagging you guys, but since there's no way for us to tell which mod that was and you were the only ones who cared to reply in this thread at all...
No member of Otland staff has verified or disputed any of these claims. As you can see, we're open to discussion here in this thread.

Gesior's post was actually deleted by xinn himself, who has moderator powers on that single board as is/was customary for hosted project boards on Otland.

I know it is hard to realize but there is no secret or lucrative arrangement between us and otservlist.org. We have hosted the "project board" pretty much forever and continue to do so because the alternative is simply for xinn to set up his own forum. Instead, it seems easier to have one larger forum. There is no endorsement, however. I know this forums stands out because all other "hosted project boards" are now defunct and hidden, due to those projects simply not being active. It is still simply a hosted project board.

This open discussion can continue and no decision has been made yet, nor am I implying that there is one necessarily coming. Civilized posts here won't be deleted and everyone can have their own opinion.
 

Adposatnr

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so what will happen now? otserver list isnt place u want to advertise ur server for a quite long time already

xinn abuse there his power and simply charge successful servers (nobody wants to get banned with reason "spoof" right?) even tho its not even with 1% thanks to otserverlist these servers got so many ppl online

right now otserverlist is a noob trap for newbie hosters to suck money from them and for me as a person who is around ot community for quite long time it is a scamm
 
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kay

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We have hosted the "project board" pretty much forever and continue to do so because the alternative is simply for xinn to set up his own forum.
And why do you even care if he does so, considering that it's obviously going to be as dead as that board here? How does having it here make otland "bigger" anyway? And what's the actual purpose of having such board, where not even xinn himself cares to post (apart from deleting criticism for alleged "lies")? Since 2013 (!) xinn made 2 posts in his "report dataspoof" subboard. It basically works as otservlist banner here, a kind of trap for newbies as said above, nothing more. And it clearly spoils the public's opinion of otland. This thread has 86 upvotes, several times more than any other ever. You choose to ignore those facts, the good name of otland and even your person (as a decision maker), just to keep advertising that scammy website for no rational reason. You even let xinn delete posts by a whim, yet you claim no "lucrative arrangement". If there truly is no deal between you two, then it's an incredibly stupid decision. I mean you should at least charge him some money if you're willing to stake your reputation to protect his business.
 
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tejdi

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so what will happen now? otserver list isnt place u want to advertise ur server for a quite long time already

xinn abuse there his power and simply charge successful servers (nobody wants to get banned with reason "spoof" right?) even tho its not even with 1% thanks to otserverlist these servers got so many ppl online

right now otserverlist is a noob trap for newbie hosters to suck money from them and for me as a person who is around ot community for quite long time it is a scamm

Scammer helper/s is/are scammer/s as well. Remember that ;)

A quick tutorial on how to show that matters to you:
1. Click your username in the top-right of Otland.
2. Select "Account upgrades" from the dropdown menu.
3. Click the blue "Cancel" button.
4. Log in to your Paypal account.
5. In the "Show active" section, select Otland's squirrel.
6. Click the blue "Cancel" link.
7. Click the blue "Cancel Automatic Payments" button.
8. Close this tab (Paypal) and the previous one (Otland)
9. Enjoy your life as never before.
 
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Iryont

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xinn abuse there his power and simply charge successful servers (nobody wants to get banned with reason "spoof" right?) even tho its not even with 1% thanks to otserverlist these servers got so many ppl online

I usually don't take a part in such discussion, but with this I couldn't agree more.

Back then I willingly on my own resigned from having Medivia on otservlist by asking Xinn through emails to remove us from the list after I was asked to provide all IPs of our players (major privacy violation I pay attention to because those are our customers who actually pay us). That was about 5-6 years ago. It should have ended like that without any further discussions or questions. However, after some months, out of the blue, random guy on otland started accusing us of spawning fake characters over the map because we were apparently "banned from the list because of the spoof":


Even though Xinn appears not to have time to answer any other claims in his own sub-forum since 2013 as @kay said he had plenty of time to jump in along with that guy to continue this speculation without any actual data to back up his statement:


Granted, Medivia had a lot of multi clients back then, that's something pointed out by several other members taking a part in this discussion, but it's far from accusations of actual spoofing which was just straight up ridiculous. Also, Xinn knew the exact reason why I resigned from the list since he received the request on his email. Despite that he claimed within that post: "Most of the people were running huge rune-maker farms and that's probably why they didn't want to follow a new rule and was eventually removed from the list". What grinds my gears is the following part: "that's probably why they didn't want to follow a new rule". I literally told him within previously mentioned email that I won't be violating privacy of our players and that I willingly would like to resign from the list, yet he somehow managed to twist it to his own liking. Also, speculations about "seeing a guy with 50 MCs" without any proof to back up his statement as otservlist owner is really unprofessional, especially since you act as a judge.

The point is what @Adposatnr said, this list became a judge of all successful or not OTS here because once you get banished for "spoof" (seems like the only reason to get banished for, even if you request your own banishment and removal from the list) then plenty of random white knights appear to convince others that your OTS is spoofed.

That being said, I honestly couldn't care less since after so many years we are doing way better than back then. However, I can actually understand current OTS hosters and their frustration, so hopefully my post can somehow help others.
 
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kay

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Back then I willingly on my own resigned from having Medivia on otservlist by asking Xinn through emails to remove us from the list
You forgot to mention Medivia later magically re-appeared on the list, something that happened to us too. We here at Tibiantis never intended to put our server on the list, yet just after the start someone (or xinn himself, who knows) added it. We did not even have the protocol to send the status. I then kindly asked xinn, via otland private message, to remove it. One could think it was his concern to keep his list reliable and free of invalid or fake entries, right? Well, no. Not at all. He replied that he wouldn't be removing it, because we weren't using otservlist and Tibiantis wasn't a protected name. He basically told me to add our server to the list, to prevent those entries.

Now, you have to remember that once you're on the list (and he tried to force us onto it), he will usurp the right to judge you, ask for your players' IPs and whatnot, which though seemingly happens only to the servers that don't pay for his service. And when you resign, he may randomly jump in your server's thread and post lies that you were removed for not following the rules, even if it was your own decision, as seen here. Oh, and not to mention that when you reach certain online number you are forced to pay, otherwise you are automatically removed from the list and marked as "banned for spoofing" in the public's opinion. This is in otservlist rules.
It's all even more ridiculous, when you think that website was literally the reason why people began to spoof their online numbers and overtime pushed it to the limits. It only works as a ranking of the most populated servers, so obviously people are trying to improve their position in such ranking, which goes by paying, cheating, paying, cheating, and using the most absurd solutions, like this one. The way otservlist is designed it openly encourages such endeavors.

That being said, @Don Daniello FOR ONCE try to answer WHO does this situation really favor? Is it convenient for OT hosters? Obviously not, since instead of developing their servers they have to waste time taking part in this retarded competition. Not to mention newbie hosters which always fall for the myth of "powerful otservlist advertisements" and waste their money, when in fact even with all banners and counters the actual advertising value nowadays is close to zero. Does it favor players? Hell, fucking, no. No one wants to be thrown fake numbers in their faces or be lied about which servers are spoofed or not. Does it favor otland? No, and the number of upvotes for this thread together with the accusations towards the staff show it clearly. There's no evidence that otservlist brings any new users to otland, but there's a lot of feedback on how otland's support for that scammy website discourages existing users. Does it favor the community in any way at all? NO. It's a cancer to this community and should've been cut off long ago. Because the only entity that gains ANY benefit from the status quo is xinn, no one else. He pretty straightforward makes profit from the fact that hosters push the spoofing practices to the absurdity, because the higher online numbers (real or not, who cares) - the more servers will have to pay him (just for reaching those numbers). It's all in his favor that those numbers are so much devalued and meaningless, that's why otservlist was made that way. And of course he makes profit from the right to judge, given him by otland, which he even uses for a blackmail too.

Someone above said that the scammer's helper is also a scammer. I don't want to go too far, but if despite all the above you still openly support that website (and having it advertised here obviously IS an open endorsement and support), then it speaks for itself.
 
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Skoldra

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View attachment 68843

Nice reason to remove people posts: "some mod thinks that I lie". Does he have some 'trusted' source of information? Like Xinn? -.-
I'm not posting some story that I heard about. I'm posting my own experience on consulting 'what to do, Xinn banned my server and want to do some inspection'.

How can I know which mod removed my post?

I helped multiple servers to pass Xinn 'inspection'. Some of them were spoofing and passed it. Some of them were not spoofing and get ban (or not get ban removed).
Biggest difference was that some of them paid for ads and some not.
This obviously a disgusting attitude from the mods since @Mark became inactive every moderator started to remove anything or ban anyone with their mind without any censorship from the OTLand founder @Mark
 

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Aaaah ... Yes!

Let us shed some light on some of the dark pages of open tibia history! Beautiful.

Feels liberating, doesn't it? Open... free...

<playing open tibia theme song> @GoldRoger
and many other - I wonder why you don't just log out of this circus called otland and switch to the less corrupt and more user-friendly smaller ots communities that gather mostly on Discord (and few different places). I agree with everything that has been written here by people who are against this corrupt list and the behavior of the moderators has purely shown for a long time that this forum is a sinking ship and they are the ones responsible for it. I really recommend leaving this forum and letting it die eventually. I will repeat once again - just gather in another place and together let's build something that will free you all from the corrupt representatives of this forum and their moronic decisions, which have been very not fair for years. Good luck otland with keeping this sinking ship above the water level. 🤦
You my friend, come visit us here more often!

Red, hot, boiling drops of blood, sweat and tears flow into this thread. Thank you @kay mine support.
 

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View attachment 68843

Nice reason to remove people posts: "some mod thinks that I lie". Does he have some 'trusted' source of information? Like Xinn? -.-
I'm not posting some story that I heard about. I'm posting my own experience on consulting 'what to do, Xinn banned my server and want to do some inspection'.

How can I know which mod removed my post?

I helped multiple servers to pass Xinn 'inspection'. Some of them were spoofing and passed it. Some of them were not spoofing and get ban (or not get ban removed).
Biggest difference was that some of them paid for ads and some not.

So you're "helping" spoofing scammers for money and accuse Xinn of shady activity motivated by extremely risky extra income without any proof, just guesswork to discredit him. You are cynical. Can you name those servers and methods you use or justice is not what you're guys here for and it's a very personal matter like in kay's case who has already wrote a Bible of why Otland should remove otservlist subforum like the world's future depended on that.
 
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So you're "helping" spoofing scammers for money and accuse Xinn of shady activity motivated by extremely risky extra income without any proof, just guesswork to discredit him. You are cynical. Can you name those servers and methods you use or justice is not what you're guys here for and it's a very personal matter like in kay's case who has already wrote a Bible of why Otland should remove otservlist subforum like the world's future depended on that.
The only person for whom it appears to be a personal matter is... you.
Because while I may have written a Bible-long substantiation of why it should be removed, you were unable to refer to a single point and came up with these argumenta ad personam instead.
 
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"there is no endorsement"... "we host his project board.. but its not endorsement because he can set up a forum himself..."
I'm failing to see the logic

Endorsement... -
uC9gSI.jpg


Has it been disproven that Xinn isn't close to someone high up in Otland?
Cant see any other reasons why it would still be here. Claiming the service helps new users is laughable and I would love to hear the argument for it when considering Gesior's post.

Why is it even linked here in the first place? Was that ever answered?

There's either a relationship or there's not, you cant have both imo..
 
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Ahilphino

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here we go again, every server owner crying about the oh so corrupted otservlist.
they want to see otservlist burn because they know its a huge source of players. everyone who does not list their server there obviously want this SITE ERASED for their OWN benefit!
this explains the hatred of medivia, kay, and gesior who had all his servera pangeria, kasteria, mastera etc BANNED forever! Ur spoof system didnt work and u got bannned? LOL XINN IS SO HECKING CORRUPTED!!!!!!!!! And most other people are PPL with banned servers? Oh XINN ACTUALLY BANS SERVERS! XINN BANNED MY SERVER, IT IS SO CURRUPTED!!!! EVERYOTHER SERVER SPOOF, SO I SPOOFED TOO AND I GOT BAN WHY?? Maybe THEY DONT SPOOF? DID YOU consider it???

Thanks you xinn. 20 years of updates to your list, 20 years of actively banning cheaters. You are a marvel in a sea of terrible ot communities.
 
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tejdi

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Can you test if you still think it should be removed while being high?

@kay Thanks for bringing that up. There doesn't seem to be any reason for the removal there other than exposing?

Came back after being high*. However, I still think that my first statement was correct.
The whole otservlist.org board on the forum should be removed. It's useless. It's a list of servers that are paying Xinn. So the entire otservlist.org board on the forum should be removed.

*tbh I've never been on any drag. This is my message no. 420 ;)
 

xKrazyx

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here we go again, every server owner crying about the oh so corrupted otservlist.
they want to see otservlist burn because they know its a huge source of players. everyone who does not list their server there obviously want this SITE ERASED for their OWN benefit!
this explains the hatred of medivia, kay, and gesior who had all his servera pangeria, kasteria, mastera etc BANNED forever! And most other owners, because why? Oh XINN ACTUALLY BANS SERVERS! XINN BANNED MY SERVER, IT IS SO CURRUPTED!!!! EVERYOTHER SERVER SPOOF, SO I SPOOFED TOO AND I GOT BAN WHY?? Maybe THEY DONT SPOOF? DID YOU consider it???
May I ask, since you have conversations blocked, have you hosted a server before? Did you use otservlist? And if so? What was the name?
Are you aware Marcus is banned for cheating from otservlist? Who I would estimate was Xinn's top customer for over 8+ years?
Are you advocating for Otservlist from a player's perspective? Or a hoster's perspective?

I noticed a correlation prior to when Marcus was banned, where individuals who played Retrocores, such as yourself, advocated for otservlist.
I find it interesting you still support otservlist even after Marcus was finally booted
 
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Ahilphino

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it's amusing you say IF YOU PAY YOU GET BAN IMMUNITY
meanwhile there are customers for YEARS that got banned
xinn has provided this amazing service for 20 years, if top servers are making 20k+ USD per month OFCOURSE He's going to charge for this service
it's not a CHARITY
 
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here we go again, every server owner crying about the oh so corrupted otservlist.
Yea, here we go again.

they want to see otservlist burn because they know its a huge source of players.

If it is so good, why do all those servers have to fake their online numbers then? 🤣
PS never even considered adding Tibiantis to that scammy list, and still doing good without that "huge source of players" after 2 years... contrary to the dozens of servers that in the same time wasted money on those banners, counters, promotion and whatnot, and couldn't survive for a week, pitty.

Cheers!
 
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Ahilphino

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stop acting like you dont want your server on otservlist
it would be obvious to anyone it cant be listed there when its 90% afk macroing runemakers
ur morals allow you to fully rip off a game 1:1 and use it as your livelihood but somehow u cant share information with xinn XDDDDDDD

Just accept it, otservlist is greaat for players. Bad for corrupt owners that want to spoof
 
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stop acting like you dont want your server on otservlist
xD somehow xinn wanted my server on the list more than I did:

dV5Ph2i.png


somehow u cant share information with xinn XDDDDDDD
Nothing about whether I can or want to share information with him. I just didn't want to be associated with that scammy website in any way, which apart from being scammy, has literally zero advertising value to me. It was xinn that wanted to force me to add my server there which I never did nor intended to.

I won't even bother commenting on your "90% afk macroing" statements, cause everyone knows our strict policy and how much we're putting to have only real players on the online list, and this thread isn't about Tibiantis anyway.

So would you mind referring to the actual thread and provided arguments at least once, instead of this ad personam nonsense?
 
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Adposatnr

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xD somehow xinn wanted my server on the list more than I did:

dV5Ph2i.png
wait what? he doesnt give a single fuck if somebody add non-existing server reporting false number of online xD? or existing server but with false number online

thats hilarious we still have wearedragons "legit" server and its almost same online on otserverlist as on website

1656275002977.png1656274989935.png

typical legit online servers no matter if its summer or winter doesnt matter if its 4 am or peak hours no less than 300-400 online
1656285229660.png
1656285234931.png

definitely otserverlist is healthy for community thats what we need better spoofing scripts instead of more stable/interesting servers

btw wearedragons graph
1656285302525.png
 
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wait what? he doesnt give a single fuck if somebody add non-existing server reporting false number of online xD? or existing server but with false number online
Yes, exactly. Someone (or xinn himself?) added Tibiantis there, but we didn't even have the protocol to send the server status, so of course it didn't work. When we noticed that I kindly asked xinn to remove it and that was his answer.
 
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