• There is NO official Otland's Discord server and NO official Otland's server list. The Otland's Staff does not manage any Discord server or server list. Moderators or administrator of any Discord server or server lists have NO connection to the Otland's Staff. Do not get scammed!

Suggestion Remove otservlist subforum

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kay

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As in the title, I'm suggesting to remove that subforum.
It doesn't seem like there is any interest anyway, only about 10 posts were sent this year.
Not even xinn seems to care at all, as he's not answering there (and lately not even visiting otland at all).

Besides, I don't see a reason why this particular service is promoted (especially when it appears in otland board which may mislead people to think otland and otservlist are one, despite the red warnings inside).

Maybe that's one of the reasons why we don't see any proper initiatives in that matter - because it looks like otservlist has developed a monopoly within otland. I'm referring here to discussions such as: Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site? (https://otland.net/threads/should-otland-open-new-otserverlist-site.272217/)

So if anything, maybe create a subforum for ots lists in general, where admins could post threads about their sites in which the users would discuss them (similarly to "server gala")?

Of course there would be only several threads at best and probably not much traffic too, but I still find it better to create an environment for fair competition rather than greatly favor one particular service for unknown reasons. Otherwise just remove that subforum.

Edit by @Znote:

Mod reply:
I read about two suggestions here, the first one is to remove the OTServlist board, and the second one is for OTLand to create our own OTSList. I can understand how the two suggestions can correlate with each other (but it's not a given). The board can still exist, whether or not we decide to adjust our own advertisement method of servers.

As has already been mentioned in a post above, OTServlist redirects traffic to OTLand (vice versa), and while neither I know the details of when and why the cooperation agreement between the two was made, I can still see the benefits of still having it.

Just wanted to let you know that we've noticed the thread and the feedback from other users regarding these two topics.

Hope you guys are having a good day today, it's really nice weather here in Stockholm today! 🌞🌻

Admin reply:
We link to that server list (and maintain a forum for it), because their website links to us in the main menu (the specific sub-forum).

There may be may reasons to like or dislike this list but I don't think us having the forum is any form of advertising it. We used to host so-called "Hosted Project Boards" back in the days, and many projects were relying on it instead of building their own forums. Building own forums became much easier and most other boards were retired with the exception of this one, because the website still exists (while other projects mostly ceased to function) and hasn't chosen to build its own forum. Other projects that would have had forums a while back (such as AACs) now use GitHub issues or discussion and also don't need to have such a forum.

The Otservlist board was specifically placed at the bottom of all the forums but since someone assumed that it being in the "Otland" category implies association, it was moved to the "Community Chatboards" category, therefore going up on the list. We don't have (nor need) a dedicated Hosterd Project Boards category to put it in separately, which would also make it more visible and cost more space.

If there was any other server list or really any OT project of any kind willing to have a project board and it would make sense, I'm still open to do that. Unfortunately, we haven't seen any other server list that would actually live long and have any substantial traffic and ask for a project board, which is why this one remains the only one.

Again, there is no association, no sponsoring, nothing to gain for us from having the board. But most importantly, there is nothing to gain from removing it at this point, which is why I'm not removing it.

there is no secret or lucrative arrangement between us and otservlist.org. We have hosted the "project board" pretty much forever and continue to do so because the alternative is simply for xinn to set up his own forum. Instead, it seems easier to have one larger forum. There is no endorsement, however. I know this forums stands out because all other "hosted project boards" are now defunct and hidden, due to those projects simply not being active. It is still simply a hosted project board.

This open discussion can continue and no decision has been made yet, nor am I implying that there is one necessarily coming. Civilized posts here won't be deleted and everyone can have their own opinion.

Official reply from owner of otservlist:
 
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tejdi

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Yeah, seems like quoting is banable xD
og post of xinn, which Kay quoted wasn't editied so whats the matter
money and promoting scam (I'd think that before I was told it's not the case)
it's the warning system for sure. :clown-emoji:
 
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Alpha

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Yeah, seems like quoting is banable xD
He called him the same without a quote, twice in the same post 🤔 If he felt insulted he could've just reported it instead of "incriminating" himself as well
3XG9ZfS.png

og post of xinn, which Kay quoted wasn't editied so whats the matter
Is it not common knowledge yet that the forum staff are, at best, mediocre at their job? If you're lucky they might do it after explicitly pointing the inconsistency out
 
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tejdi

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Is it not common knowledge yet that the forum staff are, at best, mediocre at their job? If you're lucky they might do it after explicitly pointing the inconsistency out

You named hypocrisy, unprofessionalism, and cooperating with shady people in such a beautiful way.
 

Don Daniello

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If the reason why otservlist was hidden today from Hosted boards was because of my low activity - I will tell my co-worker to simply monitor otland every day and answer posts here. I don't really want to create our own forum and divide community. It doesn't benefit anyone.
More activity would be helpful, yes. Spoof reports were not answered, which discourages further reports and makes that subforum moot. The main forum also struggled to have much traction. If you do prefer email/contact form, that's okay, but I felt that having the forum listed creates an expectation of getting a response eventually, which is not currently happening.
 
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tejdi

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I bet that the moderators won't unban kay, because they are not interested in this subject anyway.
Even with a lot of up votes and a lot of reasons to remove the sub-forum, and none to keep it, they simply say "I decided not to remove it" and, then, another ridiculously says that the moderators cares about the community's opinion. This happened also in here. What a joke.
Kay will be kept banned to stop this thread, so they can close it and reopen the sub-forum. That's what will probably happen, in my opinion.

They tried to do the same to me, trying to make me quiet.
I won the TFS' icon competition.
Wibbenz (moderator and owner of the thread of TFS' icon competition) voted to the 2nd icon, so he wanted this to win instead of mine and nothing is wrong about that.
But he lied that I cheated in this competition and decided that the 2nd icon won.
I tried to argue showing proofs to the other moderators.
All moderators started to argue against me, while almost everyone in the thread was defending me.
The moderators just didn't care about what I said, because they said they believe in Wibbenz.
I kept arguing and showing proofs, so Wibbenz started to add warning to me.
I had one warning before (fair warning) a year ago, then he added 2 another warnings (yes, two), because I said the moderators seemed corrupted (I don't remember the exact words right now).
Wibbenz said I lied about the team and the title of the warning was "Inappropriate Behavior".
Wibbenz and other moderator was also banning other people in the thread that was defending me, but none that was offending me.
I gave up to keep trying to proof my side (mainly because Wibbenz was adding me warnings to ban me, and I wanted to prevent others to not get banned because of they were defending me), people was stopping to answering the thread and then, after a week, Wibbenz gave the prize to the 2nd icon's winner and closed the thread instantly.
I tried so hard for months to win this competition honestly and working hard, and tried so hard to proof that I was not a liar.
But the moderators didn't care about me at all, just because they are friends of Wibbenz.
I won the competition, but was disqualified as a cheater and liar because of Wibbenz.
At least, I used my icon to my own server.

I don't know how I even belief that the moderators would believe in me instead of Wibbenz.
The same happens here. What a waste of time. Nothing will change.
I feel bad that people like Kay spend hours trying to argue and get banned.

You can make a thread and discuss for years, receive hundreds of up votes, 2 millions of arguments, 3 billions of proofs, but the moderators won't care, because they have their own decision made up already before anything you try to discuss.
If you care about your time, don't waste it arguing with the moderators of this forum, you will waste your time for sure.

People that were against otservlist in this thread have added a total of 36,715 posts.
Many of them, were threads that received many replies.

So we are in a situation where moderators/admins/owners are in between a hammer and an anvil they will hurt these post authors or xinn that has 338 posts and hasn't been active for months in his own subforum. There is no good choice. Right?
 

Terotrificy

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I'm afraid I don't remember doing such thing and our last conversation was in 2017 as you can check yourself on the email archive, therefore by paraphrasing your words I can only answer that it can be faked. Regarding the rest, I believe Kay said more than enough explaining your inability to actually comprehend the issue. There is no point in continuing this discussion or me wasting even more time.

On a side note, Kay was banished and someone edited his post removing "mr. goebbels", yet it is still in Xinn's post since Kay was paraphrasing his own words. All I can say is that you guys are a disgrace to Open Tibia legacy. What a mess it became.
I agree, what a disgrace of mafia is this.
So many holy cows here and they don't even flinch when it comes to protect people doing dirty movements. First @TibiCAM banned when facing marcus on a thread where everyone was exposing serious ilegal vulnerabilities, thread that was closed just to protect marcus.
Now banning kay for such a retarded reason? I can or not agree with individual persons about a lot of different topics on this platform, but using your power to abuse others is simply the most coward act you can do.
Whoever banned kay should at least have some balls and explain why he banned him, although i'm 100% sure whoever did it isn't gonna say it, neither the rest of moderators.
 

Saphron

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The whole situation here is quite fishy. Kay got warned for literally no reason just to silence this thread and stop the discussion in general.


Regarding the whole conversation the whole thing with Xinn became a shitfiesta, at least he rarely posts anything because if people knew how owner of otservlist acts publicly they would do same thing as Tibiantis and Medivia did - avoid Xinn's site at all cost.

At least time verified they were right about their decisions.
 
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tejdi

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All drama aside I just don't get why you're insisting on keeping this board when (judging by this thread only) pretty much whole community is against it.
Don't think it's corrupted or so. They said it is not.

At least time verified they were right about their decisions.
They have the best long-living servers for a reason ;)
 
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webb

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it's promising for the future but not easy to cut ties with 15y tradition, things may pull another way ... sometimes it's better to keep trying to meet in the middle, thread was going great imo. (now dying, soon dead, coz mods cut communication again)

maybe some competition in otservlist is welcome to make things more healthy again in community. it's just that somebody capable is gonna want to do it. ;)
 
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Kaspar

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Every time we enforce our rules, some users come up with conspiracy theories. This is inevitable.
Kay was temporarily banned (automatic process) due to receiving his third warning. In which he got due to insulting a user. Even though the user insulted him first, two wrongs don’t make a right.

I’m in awe to see that so many of you just can’t keep a civilized tone when discussing matters. Insulting staff and calling us a disgrace, for just doing our duty by enforcing rules? Not OK.

Many posts here are rulebreaking and will be moderated later this evening. That’s my summer vacation.

I’m going to let posts below my comment be off-topic if you have any questions regarding to any conspiracy theories you may have. But above posts will be moderated later, as I mentioned above.
I’m typing through my phone so I apologize for any formatting issues.

I will answer as best as I can, on genuine questions.
 

Ahilphino

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I won't even bother commenting on your "90% afk macroing" statements, cause everyone knows our strict policy and how much we're putting to have only real players on the online list, and this thread isn't about Tibiantis anyway.

BRO AFK Runemakers is SAME thing as botters.

U Really count a guy sitting every 15minutes pressing a single hotkey as A real player??? ITs same thing as bot! Even if its done manually !
Theyre both not playing the game! Just another character to boost your numbers and ATTRACT new players.
If runemaders didnt matter u would've removed it already! But even your server benefits GREATLY from having more players online EVEN if its not listed on otservlist.

They see numbers, OMG THIS Server is active! 200 ONLINE. ONTOP OF IT ITS ALL "REAL" PLAYERS!!!!! (but 90% is afk)!! If u would only show ACTAUAL active players the numvers would be lots smaller and everyone would say omg such a dead ot. no point trying it. u get no new players



Otland must make a stand here. Show the otservlist board again or just remove it. stop being Weeird And give us ANSWERS!

Please show Otservlist board again. it should be displayed as XINN has provided this great service for 20 years, still doing updates, still responding, still banning and exposing cheaters!
We saw from this thread rthere is many examples of xinn doing great job, but as we all know the complainers always screams the loudest! Its a good LIST for majority of the players, bad for cheating HOSTERS!
Post automatically merged:

Make a clear stance Mods!!

WE support OTservlist. It will not be removed! >> Follow this route if you are BASED!!

We love your feedback guys! You guys are amazing. U are correct! We will remove the website <<< follow this route if u are SCARED! And want to implement everything everyone cries about
 
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Saphron

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Every time we enforce our rules, some users come up with conspiracy theories. This is inevitable.
Kay was temporarily banned (automatic process) due to receiving his third warning. In which he got due to insulting a user. Even though the user insulted him first, two wrongs don’t make a right.

I’m in awe to see that so many of you just can’t keep a civilized tone when discussing matters. Insulting staff and calling us a disgrace, for just doing our duty by enforcing rules? Not OK.

Many posts here are rulebreaking and will be moderated later this evening. That’s my summer vacation.

I’m going to let posts below my comment be off-topic if you have any questions regarding to any conspiracy theories you may have. But above posts will be moderated later, as I mentioned above.
I’m typing through my phone so I apologize for any formatting issues.

I will answer as best as I can, on genuine questions.

So now we can't point out that some mods aren't doing the right thing?

It's really funny rhetoric that you say it's an automatic process because Kay had some warnings already and he was automatically banished. Just as if mod didn't see that giving him warn will not silence him lmao. (Not to mention that Kay was paraphrasing xinn)


Also, everyone can have his own opinion just like you but that doesn't mean you have to call people who find some flaws in the actions of others "conspiracy theorists" just simply because you see it in different light.
 

Tampik

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BRO AFK Runemakers is SAME thing as botters.

U Really count a guy sitting every 15minutes pressing a single hotkey as A real player??? ITs same thing as bot! Even if its done manually !
Theyre both not playing the game! Just another character to boost your numbers and ATTRACT new players.
If runemaders didnt matter u would've removed it already! But even your server benefits GREATLY from having more players online EVEN if its not listed on otservlist.

They see numbers, OMG THIS Server is active! 200 ONLINE. ONTOP OF IT ITS ALL "REAL" PLAYERS!!!!! (but 90% is afk)!! If u would only show ACTAUAL active players the numvers would be lots smaller and everyone would say omg such a dead ot. no point trying it. u get no new players



Otland must make a stand here. Show the otservlist board again or just remove it. stop being Weeird And give us ANSWERS!

Please show Otservlist board again. it should be displayed as XINN has provided this great service for 20 years, still doing updates, still responding, still banning and exposing cheaters!
We saw from this thread rthere is many examples of xinn doing great job, but as we all know the complainers always screams the loudest! Its a good LIST for majority of the players, bad for cheating HOSTERS!
Post automatically merged:

Make a clear stance Mods!!

WE support OTservlist. It will not be removed! >> Follow this route if you are BASED!!

We love your feedback guys! You guys are amazing. U are correct! We will remove the website <<< follow this route if u are SCARED! And want to implement everything everyone cries about
You can also record the tasker for logging in and charging mana in the bed every few minutes with a change of pace by a few seconds and no one will be able to tell whether it is a human logging or a tiny tasker.

If I were to play such a cheated server, I would definitely do it, because this guy was not able to even detect that fishing every day would at tiny tasker, let alone change the pace of the relog to the game for some a few seconds every few minutes.

Generally, I do not know why this topic arose, if half of the people do not even know what otland is.

There aren't any meaningful servers as they'll be here or there, it doesn't matter, advertising may even be on the moon, and it won't change anything.
 

Kaspar

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So now we can't point out that some mods aren't doing the right thing?
I never said that did I? You can, and you should. But insulting a moderator for doing his/her best, is not the same thing as giving feedback.
Also feedback should be given in a seperate thread, otherwise it is deemed to be off-topic.
It's really funny rhetoric that you say it's an automatic process because Kay had some warnings already and he was automatically banished. Just as if mod didn't see that giving him warn will not silence him lmao. (Not to mention that Kay was paraphrasing xinn)
Do you mean we should be more lenient with user that has 2 warnings? Usually in the world, it's the other way around with repeated offenders.
We don't usually check if the user has 2 warnings and will receive a ban on their third, because it is not relevant to our job. We hand out warnings if a user breaks the rules. It's the user's job to make sure he doesn't reach the threshold.
And as I mentioned already, it doesn't matter if Kay was just paraphrasing/quoting xinn, two wrongs don't make a right. Kay did in the end, in fact, call xinn "Mr Goebbels".

Also, everyone can have his own opinion just like you but that doesn't mean you have to call people who find some flaws in the actions of others "conspiracy theorists" just simply because you see it in different light.
Coming to the same conclusion for years; that moderators are horrible people, without any context to the situation, is not really an opinion. I would call it a conspiration against us. People jump to the same conclusion too quickly without even trying to understand our side before attacking us. Is that an opinion really? Opinion of hate perhaps.
 

Ramirow

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As someone that has been in and out of the forum for many many years I can say I never had any issue with any moderator whatsoever.
I respect their jobs and I make sure my way of presenting myself in online environments is always civilized, I've seen them doing the right things many times and it's something that not many here talk about either.

Even if something discussed here is a result of a bad/poor choice by any of them, there are ways to communicate that without offense, we all make mistakes after all.
I think the community has the right to speak about anything forum related as long as they are being respectful towards each other.

Hope you're all doing well ♥
 

Terotrificy

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UPDATE: Lord was just banned, his whole post deleted and the banishment reason doesnt even exist. (ban evasion - spokesperson for banned user). @Kaspar but then you get offended when people complaints that you and the rest of moderators are incompetent, how many warnings lord had? Where is that rule?.
This is not kinder guarden, grew up and do your job as its supposed to be done or just leave, this is embarrising. What is next? Everyone banned in this thread? Yeah i think thats for sure.

UPDATE 2: Adoposatnr banned for the same non-existent reason.
 

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Iryont

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The incompetence of moderators within this thread never cease to amaze me. I have been around longer than you can probably imagine, starting from otfans, way before otland was ever created, so I actually saw how Open Tibia evolves and I did work with Mark back then when TFS was just about to be forked. During all of that time I have never seen worse behavior than this.

Now, that being my own opinion, not some "conspiracy theory", knowing my experience throughout the years, can you please enlighten us @Kaspar where exactly in rules it states that you cannot share a message from a person who was already banished?

I clearly saw that LordCompi just quoted Kay from his private message in a post here which you decided to remove and banish LordCompi for. I could understand that if it was truly within the rules, but that's not the case, the only prohibited thing is multi account:

lIRUU2W.png


That being said, are you still wondering why I did call you a disgrace to Open Tibia legacy? You guys barely can handle any further development of TFS after Mark left. The core game code we have created back then (over 15 years ago) is still the same in TFS today because none of you is capable of actually creating anything better than bunch of smart teenagers back then. You lost so many developers over time due to different reasons and after all of this you are trying to behave godlike on a mediocre forum for no apparent reason.
 

Kaspar

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The incompetence of moderators within this thread never cease to amaze me. I have been around longer than you can probably imagine, starting from otfans, way before otland was ever created, so I actually saw how Open Tibia evolves and I did work with Mark back then when TFS was just about to be forked. During all of that time I have never seen worse behavior than this.

Now, that being my own opinion, not some "conspiracy theory", knowing my experience throughout the years, can you please enlighten us @Kaspar where exactly in rules it states that you cannot share a message from a person who was already banished?

I clearly saw that LordCompi just quoted Kay from his private message in a post here which you decided to remove and banish LordCompi for. I could understand that if it was truly within the rules, but that's not the case, the only prohibited thing is multi account:

lIRUU2W.png


That being said, are you still wondering why I did call you a disgrace to Open Tibia legacy? You guys barely can handle any further development of TFS after Mark left. The core game code we have created back then (over 15 years ago) is still the same in TFS today because none of you is capable of actually creating anything better than bunch of smart teenagers back then. You lost so many developers over time due to different reasons and after all of this you are trying to behave godlike on a mediocre forum for no apparent reason.
It is obvious that one cannot act as a relay for a banned user. What purpose does banning fulfill if the banned user can still access and comment the forum through another user?

And you’re wrong. He quoted Kay’s other user that he created against the rules (ban evasion). The post was never to see light. Well at least not until 3 months from now, when Kay will be unbanned (unless he continues to ban evade, where he then will be banned for longer).

Our rules cannot state every single thing that is not allowed, ergo the existence of warnings and Moderators.

I have never touched anything related to TFS nor am I even a developer, so your insult is not relevant to me. I’m just here to moderate the forum.

Again, sorry for formatting - typing on phone.
 
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