• There is NO official Otland's Discord server and NO official Otland's server list. The Otland's Staff does not manage any Discord server or server list. Moderators or administrator of any Discord server or server lists have NO connection to the Otland's Staff. Do not get scammed!

Suggestion Remove otservlist subforum

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kay

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As in the title, I'm suggesting to remove that subforum.
It doesn't seem like there is any interest anyway, only about 10 posts were sent this year.
Not even xinn seems to care at all, as he's not answering there (and lately not even visiting otland at all).

Besides, I don't see a reason why this particular service is promoted (especially when it appears in otland board which may mislead people to think otland and otservlist are one, despite the red warnings inside).

Maybe that's one of the reasons why we don't see any proper initiatives in that matter - because it looks like otservlist has developed a monopoly within otland. I'm referring here to discussions such as: Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site? (https://otland.net/threads/should-otland-open-new-otserverlist-site.272217/)

So if anything, maybe create a subforum for ots lists in general, where admins could post threads about their sites in which the users would discuss them (similarly to "server gala")?

Of course there would be only several threads at best and probably not much traffic too, but I still find it better to create an environment for fair competition rather than greatly favor one particular service for unknown reasons. Otherwise just remove that subforum.

Edit by @Znote:

Mod reply:
I read about two suggestions here, the first one is to remove the OTServlist board, and the second one is for OTLand to create our own OTSList. I can understand how the two suggestions can correlate with each other (but it's not a given). The board can still exist, whether or not we decide to adjust our own advertisement method of servers.

As has already been mentioned in a post above, OTServlist redirects traffic to OTLand (vice versa), and while neither I know the details of when and why the cooperation agreement between the two was made, I can still see the benefits of still having it.

Just wanted to let you know that we've noticed the thread and the feedback from other users regarding these two topics.

Hope you guys are having a good day today, it's really nice weather here in Stockholm today! 🌞🌻

Admin reply:
We link to that server list (and maintain a forum for it), because their website links to us in the main menu (the specific sub-forum).

There may be may reasons to like or dislike this list but I don't think us having the forum is any form of advertising it. We used to host so-called "Hosted Project Boards" back in the days, and many projects were relying on it instead of building their own forums. Building own forums became much easier and most other boards were retired with the exception of this one, because the website still exists (while other projects mostly ceased to function) and hasn't chosen to build its own forum. Other projects that would have had forums a while back (such as AACs) now use GitHub issues or discussion and also don't need to have such a forum.

The Otservlist board was specifically placed at the bottom of all the forums but since someone assumed that it being in the "Otland" category implies association, it was moved to the "Community Chatboards" category, therefore going up on the list. We don't have (nor need) a dedicated Hosterd Project Boards category to put it in separately, which would also make it more visible and cost more space.

If there was any other server list or really any OT project of any kind willing to have a project board and it would make sense, I'm still open to do that. Unfortunately, we haven't seen any other server list that would actually live long and have any substantial traffic and ask for a project board, which is why this one remains the only one.

Again, there is no association, no sponsoring, nothing to gain for us from having the board. But most importantly, there is nothing to gain from removing it at this point, which is why I'm not removing it.

there is no secret or lucrative arrangement between us and otservlist.org. We have hosted the "project board" pretty much forever and continue to do so because the alternative is simply for xinn to set up his own forum. Instead, it seems easier to have one larger forum. There is no endorsement, however. I know this forums stands out because all other "hosted project boards" are now defunct and hidden, due to those projects simply not being active. It is still simply a hosted project board.

This open discussion can continue and no decision has been made yet, nor am I implying that there is one necessarily coming. Civilized posts here won't be deleted and everyone can have their own opinion.

Official reply from owner of otservlist:
 
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Iryont

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It is obvious that one cannot act as a relay for a banned user. What purpose does banning fulfill if the banned user can still access and comment the forum through another user?

And you’re wrong. He quoted Kay’s other user that he created against the rules (ban evasion). The post was never to see light. Well at least not until 3 months from now, when Kay will be unbanned (unless he continues to ban evade, where he then will be banned for longer).

Our rules cannot state every single thing that is not allowed, ergo the existence of warnings and Moderators.

I honestly didn't expect this to be obvious. I give our banished players a way to communicate with us (through Discord) to explain the banishment and reasons behind it. That seems like a logical thing to do, since everyone is enlighten for a trial with another person within our dev-team (not only with the one who banished them). We have made bunch of mistakes throughout the history and in most cases (if not all) a mistake was found after an internal discussion. Human errors do happen, whether you believe it or not, but at this point you are simply acting omnipotent.

That being said, at this point you are not giving them any choice. They are blocked from everything, even from knowing the exact reason for banishment. They cannot send any private messages. If they ask through someone else then you banish that person for "relying the message" because that's "ban evasion". Do you realize how ridiculous this situation is?
 

Ahilphino

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ontopic::::::: still no word on otservlist board being shown again :( would love to see it again!

but....
jesus christ you babies
LMAO

he ban evades and expects to not get banned.
Are you kidding?

Stop whining about everything

OTSERVLIST IS CURRUPTED.
THEY ADDED MY SERVER. WOOW!!!!!!!!! OTLAND MUST REMOVE THIS CURRUPT WEBSITE

OTLAND IS CURRUPTED. I GOT 3 WARNINGS ANBD GOT BANNED
I THEN BAN EVADED AND GOT BANNED
OMG THE CORRUPTION
 

Kaspar

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I honestly didn't expect this to be obvious. I give our banished players a way to communicate with us (through Discord) to explain the banishment and reasons behind it. That seems like a logical thing to do, since everyone is enlighten for a trial with another person within our dev-team (not only with the one who banished them). We have made bunch of mistakes throughout the history and in most cases (if not all) a mistake was found after an internal discussion. Human errors do happen, whether you believe it or not, but at this point you are simply acting omnipotent.

That being said, at this point you are not giving them any choice. They are blocked from everything, even from knowing the exact reason for banishment. They cannot send any private messages. If they ask through someone else then you banish that person for "relying the message" because that's "ban evasion". Do you realize how ridiculous this situation is?
Well I do admit that it’s not good if users don’t see their ban-reason when they receive their third warning, but that’s outside my scope.
I do have a Discord and my information is on my profile, so anyone can message me. Including banned users - and there have been a few of them that have added me to talk.

But Kay didn’t create an account to ask for his ban-reason. He knew why he got banned, he’s a smart guy. He just wanted to be rude again, publicly. He could’ve (and still can) reach out to us through e.g Discord.

Not sure what your feedback to me is. Do you dislike me for enforcing our rules?
Are you not happy with our rules? Should we add every single rule after the fact that someone did something not allowed, but that our rules didn’t specify? And then let them get away with it because our rules didn’t specify it?
What’s your suggestion to make the moderation better here?
I’m genuinly interested if you have a serious suggestion.

I am not acting omnipotent, just as apparently you aren’t conspiring against us.
We have lifted a few bans before after discussing things. What makes you think that we are not open for discussion? He’s been banned for 1 day.
He hasn’t yet tried to contact us privately to get an explanation. So I assume he knows why he is banned. Especially after I’ve publicly explained the reason(s).
 
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DrRed24

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Damn and I was about to take a screenshot of Lord answer just in case and now he's banned and post removed so sad :/ it's just insane
 

Terotrificy

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Damn and I was about to take a screenshot of Lord answer just in case and now he's banned and post removed so sad :/ it's just insane
I have the whole picture of the post but if i post it here i'm gonna get banned right @Kaspar? although i don't see what rule i'm breaking there.
 

Beo

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What a fucking mess this forum and Open Tibia has become.


Well I do admit that it’s not good if users don’t see their ban-reason when they receive their third warning, but that’s outside my scope.
I do have a Discord and my information is on my profile, so anyone can message me. Including banned users - and there have been a few of them that have added me to talk.

But Kay didn’t create an account to ask for his ban-reason. He knew why he got banned, he’s a smart guy. He just wanted to be rude again, publicly. He could’ve (and still can) reach out to us through e.g Discord.

Not sure what your feedback to me is. Do you dislike me for enforcing our rules?
Are you not happy with our rules? Should we add every single rule after the fact that someone did something not allowed, but that our rules didn’t specify? And then let them get away with it because our rules didn’t specify it?
What’s your suggestion to make the moderation better here?
I’m genuinly interested if you have a serious suggestion.

I am not acting omnipotent, just as apparently you aren’t conspiring against us.
We have lifted a few bans before after discussing things. What makes you think that we are not open for discussion? He’s been banned for 1 day.
He hasn’t yet tried to contact us privately to get an explanation. So I assume he knows why he is banned. Especially after I’ve publicly explained the reason(s).
Why are you discussing this in a thread for Otservlist? As a Global Moderator, you should know better and shouldn't have responded in the way you did anyway and advised them to message you privately to discuss a ban.

You all have some massive egos and think your something big but booooy are you wrong. Bashing current TFS developers who, out of their free time, provide improvements, bug fixes, enhancements to TFS for free. Whilst you are all keeping your shit closed source and are no longer (if ever) doing anything to contribute to Open Tibia is hilarious. Otland is a fucking joke, it has been for a while. Yet nobody is providing a reliable community to go to except these shitty, dramatic Discord servers which keep popping up.

I've not contributed anything to TFS except bug reports etc, I have never had intention of doing so, but never would I rip the TFS developers who are TRYING to improve it by themselves, in their free time, on their own motivation.

Otservlist should be removed from Otland, the forum is dead, no management from Xinn, the list goes on. This thread is by far the most popular voted, yet Administration keeps defending it.

Otland exists because of the community, if the community wants an "improvement" or something removed, especially something this popular, you have to provide valid reasons other than "they'll make a separate board which will separate the community".

How on earth will a OT List forum separate an Open Tibia resource forum? By listing their own resources? Otland has historical data that even other nationalities come here when they have better managed boards elsewhere, why the fuck would an otlist forum be competition? Realistically, give me a reason?

Otland could be so much better than the shit state it's currently in. What a fucking mess this forum is in and what a fucking mess some of you are.
 

Iryont

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I do have a Discord and my information is on my profile, so anyone can message me. Including banned users - and there have been a few of them that have added me to talk.

I can imagine they probably don't know that. It isn't said anywhere.

Not sure what your feedback to me is. Do you dislike me for enforcing our rules?

I have no personal opinion towards you. It's regarding everyone and everything happening within this thread, whether it was caused by you or not, it's still global (moderators).

Are you not happy with our rules? Should we add every single rule after the fact that someone did something not allowed, but that our rules didn’t specify? And then let them get away with it because our rules didn’t specify it?

Not at all, otland rules are just fine, but for that matter we are not talking about otland rules, but something unspoken of, never written and never heard of before. Perhaps it would be wise to actually contact that person before giving any banishment or a warning which will lead to banishment? You literally banished people for unknown things until they were actually punished for it.

What’s your suggestion to make the moderation better here?

Talk with users "violating" the unspoken rules instead of banishing them for something they couldn't have possibly known before. If they continue to violate your vocal warning then feel free to banish them, unless of course the rule is clearly written within the rules and cannot be misinterpreted.

He hasn’t yet tried to contact us privately to get an explanation. So I assume he knows why he is banned. Especially after I’ve publicly explained the reason(s).

How can one contact you? How can one know who banished him? Is it written somewhere or they should just roam around searching for a way? They certainly shouldn't attempt to contact staff by creating another account which is violation of otland rules. In the current state banished users cannot do anything, not even send PMs to actually get any answers.
 
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Kaspar

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I have the whole picture of the post but if i post it here i'm gonna get banned right @Kaspar? although i don't see what rule i'm breaking there.
You can share it to whoever you want, outside of this forum.

What a fucking mess this forum and Open Tibia has become.



Why are you discussing this in a thread for Otservlist? As a Global Moderator, you should know better and shouldn't have responded in the way you did anyway and advised them to message you privately to discuss a ban.

You all have some massive egos and think your something big but booooy are you wrong. Bashing current TFS developers who, out of their free time, provide improvements, bug fixes, enhancements to TFS for free. Whilst you are all keeping your shit closed source and are no longer (if ever) doing anything to contribute to Open Tibia is hilarious. Otland is a fucking joke, it has been for a while. Yet nobody is providing a reliable community to go to except these shitty, dramatic Discord servers which keep popping up.

I've not contributed anything to TFS except bug reports etc, I have never had intention of doing so, but never would I rip the TFS developers who are TRYING to improve it by themselves, in their free time, on their own motivation.

Otservlist should be removed from Otland, the forum is dead, no management from Xinn, the list goes on. This thread is by far the most popular voted, yet Administration keeps defending it.

Otland exists because of the community, if the community wants an "improvement" or something removed, especially something this popular, you have to provide valid reasons other than "they'll make a separate board which will separate the community".

How on earth will a OT List forum separate an Open Tibia resource forum? By listing their own resources? Otland has historical data that even other nationalities come here when they have better managed boards elsewhere, why the fuck would an otlist forum be competition? Realistically, give me a reason?

Otland could be so much better than the shit state it's currently in. What a fucking mess this forum is in and what a fucking mess some of you are.
If you read my previous posts, you’d understand why I am allowing off-topic posts at the moment. Too lazy to read and understand the context? Ok, well because the public opinion about a user’s ban spiraled, I allow off-topic posts so that I can answer questions related to the ban. Instead of deleting all off-topic posts. Which way do you want it? Delete or not delete? Outcry no matter what.

Not sure what to say about your other comments. I praise our developers. I think many left during the years due to other reasons, i.e real life stuff and careers. Rather than bad moderation.

What’s your suggestions to improve the forum other than removing otservlist’s hosted board?

I can imagine they probably don't know that. It isn't said anywhere.
Perhaps, but most users that are banned create new accounts to message us, and that’s fine. We don’t just ignore them and re-ban them immediately if they private message us with their concerns.

Not at all, otland rules are just fine, but for that matter we are not talking about otland rules, but something unspoken of, never written and never heard of before. Perhaps it would be wise to actually contact that person before giving any banishment or a warning which will lead to banishment? You literally banished people for unknown things until they were actually punished for it.
Kay was banned for calling someone a nazi basically.
That’s in the rules.

He was then banned on his other newly created account due to ban-evasion. He didn’t use the account to contact us, he used it to continue posting in the thread.
That’s in the rules.

LordCompi was then warned once, due to him relaying Kay’s message.
This was not written in the rules explicitly. However, it makes sense that you cannot relay a banned user’s messages, as I have stated previously - it would make the ban worthless.

He then proceeded to post the message again after the first warning and then received another warning that lead to his ban.

Then a bunch of other users wanted to antagonize me and just mess with me by posting the same message multiple times. They continue to do so. Some people post porn. Some people post OTLand logos with turds on it. I just have no tolerance with these people that keep creating new accounts to spam post.
Talk with users "violating" the unspoken rules instead of banishing them for something they couldn't have possibly known before. If they continue to violate your vocal warning then feel free to banish them, unless of course the rule is clearly written within the rules and cannot be misinterpreted.
This is what I did. I warned LordCompi and started a PM with him. He seemingly didn’t care.

How can one contact you? How can one know who banished him? Is it written somewhere or they should just roam around searching for a way? They certainly shouldn't attempt to contact staff by creating another account which is violation of otland rules. In the current state banished users cannot do anything, not even send PMs to actually get any answers.
It doesn’t matter who issued the warning. All staff would help out here.

There is no real good way to contact staff after you’ve received a ban. I agree with you here, so I will forward this to our staff for discussion.

Most people just create a new account anyways, and PM a staff member. We understand that they are ban-evading by doing so, but since we know that’s one of the only ways of contacting us, we let them PM us. However as soon as they post public posts, that’s where they really are ban-evading.
 

Tampik

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Kay was banned for calling someone a nazi basically.
That’s in the rules.
Let me tell you that in Poland. Ukraine Deliberately promotes the person of the criminal and murderer Bandera, who is as bad a man as Gebbels, or are they expelled from the country for this reason, with no possibility of returning?

Well, they are not, is public opinion in other countries criticizing it or is it indifferent to it?

It's like it is that you are allowed to promote a murderer in public in a foreign country and not be punished, and, an bullshit forum on tibia for calling someone Gebbles, you can be banned, but that is ridiculous world.

Maybe we should think about it and loosen these forum rules and prohibitions a bit.

I don't know, I have bad associations with otland moderators, whenever I think about them, I have in my head image Greta Thunberg
pinned to a tree and such a bulldozer will come and she is holding a sign that protects dung beetles.

[[[ No offense for the Moderators, only these are my associations, and I don't know why. ]]]]

It is probably because of this terrible censorship that I have such strange associations.
 

Grimekk

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Every time we enforce our rules, some users come up with conspiracy theories. This is inevitable.
Kay was temporarily banned (automatic process) due to receiving his third warning. In which he got due to insulting a user. Even though the user insulted him first, two wrongs don’t make a right.

I’m in awe to see that so many of you just can’t keep a civilized tone when discussing matters. Insulting staff and calling us a disgrace, for just doing our duty by enforcing rules? Not OK.

Many posts here are rulebreaking and will be moderated later this evening. That’s my summer vacation.

I’m going to let posts below my comment be off-topic if you have any questions regarding to any conspiracy theories you may have. But above posts will be moderated later, as I mentioned above.
I’m typing through my phone so I apologize for any formatting issues.

I will answer as best as I can, on genuine questions.
You're cringe mate. At no point was there any comment of any staff member towards the evidence Kay and Iryont provided of xinn's wrongdoings, just a shit fest of "two wrongs don't make a right" blabla, this is an internet board, the vast majority of us are adults well into our 30ties able to read between the lines and can see that kay was just paraphrasing. Maybe instead of playacting as the supreme court of otland you could gather your homies and actually address the community's apparent support for the snake this thread was initially about.
 
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Skoldra

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Anyways I'm going to write a big report, especially for @Mark about this Kaspar he started to act very bad always banning innocent ppl, He literally is no longer valid being a moderator at all, And I do not see any benefit from his existence in this position he's just used to keep abusing his position as a moderator to ban people saying what he wants and to expense being like this no one can stop him
I also have a big list for banning many people without any evidence or an ostensible cause I will send them for sure soon with my report and I hope he faces my comment to answer every single word I wrote without removing my comment :D.
 

slayzer

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The internet and especially this forum is so full of toxic individuals who only finds joy in harassing others.
People literally go into threads just to shit talk.

I am assuming they are just trolls. And after many years there are mostly just trolls left.
If the moderators banned them then the forum would be dead. So instead they just let them do whatever they want, including talking shit to moderators.

The people posting here with double digit amount of posts is probably assholes who got banned previously for being an asshole. Now its their life goal to ruin the forum for the rest of us.
 
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Blackstone

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I mean this whole thread became an offtopic chat. So let me first say something on-topic before I continue with my meaningless opinion about staff and the community.
Whether Xinn is an abuser or not, the board was dead for years and without any sense, it is worthless. No one can ever deny that, so why keep it?
Wouldn't it be fine to link otservist anywhere else so it's still cross referenced and people can jump between the pages? (but just not with an own board?)

Off-Topic:
The community went down the drain long time ago. And it's not because admins or moderators are assholes. It's because most of us lost interest.
Nobody really cares to provide free content. In the past we had many staff members that actually cared about Otland and its activity, really wanted to push it.
Just as all the other people around they certainly lost interest. Which is ok.
But in the past people resigned from their positions to make space for more active users, simply because they knew they couldn't keep up anymore.
As a result of that people and also the staff is getting more and more frustrated every day. And lets be honest. Most of us don't even want to talk to each other anymore.
Also it has become quite a pattern of some people to harass and shit talk people even tho they complain about others doing the same in the same sentence. You guys are a meme.
Frustration everywhere and if I wasnt and addict, I would have left this shit long time ago to never come back.
I really wished it was the other way around but I am certain the forum will not recover from this anyways.
 

heitorzinhotc

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There is no freedom of expression in this forum, as the "my friend" law speaks louder.
Of course, the community as a whole does NOT choose how things should be!
Don't waste any more time arguing, this is just like the Titanic, a real leaky boat!
 

Znote

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This thread has derailed quite considerably, and I'm not sure how to properly manage it. Its a feedback thread which makes me more lenient towards criticism against anything. I like that otland offers a place like this feedback board where users can voice their opinions.
(just do it respectfully and within the rules, you shouldn't have to violate rules to explain your thoughts).

This thread has become quite popular, with over 100 votes. I think that is awesome!
But since its in feedback, it is generally poorly moderated, with a lot of fluff and discussion of topical and non-topical nuances between several pages.

If anyone feel personally attacked, or a rule violation has been clearly touched, please report posts so the staff can justify individual posts. Even though moderators are quite forgiving here, we should still obey the official rules in this forum.
(In My Honest Opinion: We have been to lax on this, possibly because we want to give voice to criticism against ourselves).
...After all, some users seems to have the opposite opinion of mine, which they should be allowed to voice. What better place to do it than the feedback section?

If the reason why otservlist was hidden today from Hosted boards was because of my low activity - I will tell my co-worker to simply monitor otland every day and answer posts here. I don't really want to create our own forum and divide community. It doesn't benefit anyone.

Greetings Xinn,

Once every day would be awesome, although I believe even once or twice per month would suffice. You shouldn't have to put much effort into the forum, but show some presence now and then to address issues and concerns would go a long way. I find most of your reasoning to be reasonable, but if you don't post anything people might go along with conspiracies. I fear this thread might be a result of that.

This is very much a shared issue with us from the staff, I have been gone from the OT community for 4 months, and in my absence loud users have voiced their opinions. But who am I to silence them?
 
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