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Suggestion Remove otservlist subforum

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kay

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As in the title, I'm suggesting to remove that subforum.
It doesn't seem like there is any interest anyway, only about 10 posts were sent this year.
Not even xinn seems to care at all, as he's not answering there (and lately not even visiting otland at all).

Besides, I don't see a reason why this particular service is promoted (especially when it appears in otland board which may mislead people to think otland and otservlist are one, despite the red warnings inside).

Maybe that's one of the reasons why we don't see any proper initiatives in that matter - because it looks like otservlist has developed a monopoly within otland. I'm referring here to discussions such as: Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site? (https://otland.net/threads/should-otland-open-new-otserverlist-site.272217/)

So if anything, maybe create a subforum for ots lists in general, where admins could post threads about their sites in which the users would discuss them (similarly to "server gala")?

Of course there would be only several threads at best and probably not much traffic too, but I still find it better to create an environment for fair competition rather than greatly favor one particular service for unknown reasons. Otherwise just remove that subforum.

Edit by @Znote:

Mod reply:
I read about two suggestions here, the first one is to remove the OTServlist board, and the second one is for OTLand to create our own OTSList. I can understand how the two suggestions can correlate with each other (but it's not a given). The board can still exist, whether or not we decide to adjust our own advertisement method of servers.

As has already been mentioned in a post above, OTServlist redirects traffic to OTLand (vice versa), and while neither I know the details of when and why the cooperation agreement between the two was made, I can still see the benefits of still having it.

Just wanted to let you know that we've noticed the thread and the feedback from other users regarding these two topics.

Hope you guys are having a good day today, it's really nice weather here in Stockholm today! 🌞🌻

Admin reply:
We link to that server list (and maintain a forum for it), because their website links to us in the main menu (the specific sub-forum).

There may be may reasons to like or dislike this list but I don't think us having the forum is any form of advertising it. We used to host so-called "Hosted Project Boards" back in the days, and many projects were relying on it instead of building their own forums. Building own forums became much easier and most other boards were retired with the exception of this one, because the website still exists (while other projects mostly ceased to function) and hasn't chosen to build its own forum. Other projects that would have had forums a while back (such as AACs) now use GitHub issues or discussion and also don't need to have such a forum.

The Otservlist board was specifically placed at the bottom of all the forums but since someone assumed that it being in the "Otland" category implies association, it was moved to the "Community Chatboards" category, therefore going up on the list. We don't have (nor need) a dedicated Hosterd Project Boards category to put it in separately, which would also make it more visible and cost more space.

If there was any other server list or really any OT project of any kind willing to have a project board and it would make sense, I'm still open to do that. Unfortunately, we haven't seen any other server list that would actually live long and have any substantial traffic and ask for a project board, which is why this one remains the only one.

Again, there is no association, no sponsoring, nothing to gain for us from having the board. But most importantly, there is nothing to gain from removing it at this point, which is why I'm not removing it.

there is no secret or lucrative arrangement between us and otservlist.org. We have hosted the "project board" pretty much forever and continue to do so because the alternative is simply for xinn to set up his own forum. Instead, it seems easier to have one larger forum. There is no endorsement, however. I know this forums stands out because all other "hosted project boards" are now defunct and hidden, due to those projects simply not being active. It is still simply a hosted project board.

This open discussion can continue and no decision has been made yet, nor am I implying that there is one necessarily coming. Civilized posts here won't be deleted and everyone can have their own opinion.

Official reply from owner of otservlist:
 
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Blackstone

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It's the nail in the coffin. Instead of picking up the suggestion of adding another way of cross-advertising/referencing otservlist, this would be the worst solution.
Also it is not because of "loud" users, 100+ votes are the exact opposite.
Members raise concerns and want to improve the forum, but you guys regularly treat them "as the issue itself". That is why people are frustrated in the first place.
 

Recreant

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I love how the moderation just shot the messenger instead of adressing the issue. Theres no possibility that theres something shady going on in the background guys, xinn pls respond at least once a year on a board dedicated to your service!

Also, @Ahilphino - exquisite trolling in the whole board. Keep it up!
 

Iryont

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This whole situation was solved by discriminating everyone involved it by either banishing them or by linking only Xinn's propaganda within the first post. Xinn's post doesn't even contain answer to the original message itself, but rather another propaganda of him attacking Tibiantis and Medivia and why everyone else who doesn't want to use that glorious list is a spoofer. I have a question though, why did you include those quotations within the first post when they were all answered by Kay, myself and other members of this forum? Doesn't even thread starter himself deserve his answers to be quoted there as well? Of course not.

You have no shame, honestly.

We have been to lax on this, possibly because we want to give voice to criticism against ourselves

Your majesty was so kind enough just to banish the original author and a few other members without prior warnings (e.g. Adposatnr*) who continued the discussion. I believe I speak for everyone when I say thank you, your mercy has no boundaries.

* Yes, I stand with a person who apparently hates Medivia and myself as an owner because I can actually put such things aside for the greater good of everyone else here on this forum.
 
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Ahilphino

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I love how the moderation just shot the messenger instead of adressing the issue. Theres no possibility that theres something shady going on in the background guys, xinn pls respond at least once a year on a board dedicated to your service!

Also, @Ahilphino - exquisite trolling in the whole board. Keep it up!

no trolling.
otservlist is good service, what else ot service has been alive for 20 years? not even otland is this old. otservlist existed for years before this forum even excisted. and seems its gone soon before otservlist even

otland need otservlist more than the other way around.
otland is listed as forum on otservlist website. if xinn removes this link it's just bad for otland.
 

Ochman

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Hi, I'm just passing by.
This ban of @kay; @Lord; and the third guy is just pure X and D and I don't even like them in the first place.
Also some long time ago I bought one or two advertising on otservlist and, well, I can say that, well, xinn was helpful to setup and so on. I do not know whenever paying him grants you immunity. I only tested the "paying" part, maybe if I were wiser I would go for spoof-immunity too, but I wasn't.
I do, however, agree, that you cannot compete with "regular" server when 99% of the others are some-kind-of-spoof or no-spoof-but-500-trainings which kind of kills the purpose of "ranked" list.
And it's not even funny when people argue that otservlist "typical" servers are not spoofed.
I - a long time ago - saw what otservlist became and planned to do my own servlist without spoofed servers, but I had no idea how to check whenever server spoofs or not.

If anyone has any ideas - hit me up. I can provide MVP of that alternative pretty quickly.
 

heitorzinhotc

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The otservlist should look like this list:

Top100Arena | Bringing you the best lists (Top100Arena | Bringing you the best top lists (https://www.top100arena.com/category/wow-private-server))

With a system of resetting votes every 30 days. If you look closely, this site has a lot of security in the voting system (I know this is still possible to get around), but in my opinion it doesn't always keep the kings in the first list if there wasn't the minimum effort on the part of the team and its players to vote.

The above voting system has dual authentication of votes with captcha on both authentications. An example of voting is this: Top100Arena Vote (Top100Arena Vote (https://www.top100arena.com/listing/98725/vote))
Which a server on this list is voted for.

The current online player system only exists in open tibia, and no other.
 
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Ahilphino

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so instead u want another bad system.

instead of encouarging runemaking/ppl having as many mcs

U will add bevaviour like
VOTE OUR SERVER EVERYDAY TO GET DOUBLE EXP FOR UR ACCT.
+ ppl still spoof and cheat with votes.. infact this is even easier because theres 10000 services for it already

in the end same servers will be at the top of the list.
Why? Because their actually popular and has tons of real players.
the first 10 servers are on otservlist are servers that were online for YEARS with constant updates. Do you think those admins would give a shit about keeping their servers on if it didnt give them lots of money? That comes from real PAYING players. not SPOOFS.
 

heitorzinhotc

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so instead u want another bad system.

instead of encouarging runemaking/ppl having as many mcs

U will add bevaviour like
VOTE OUR SERVER EVERYDAY TO GET DOUBLE EXP FOR UR ACCT.
+ ppl still spoof and cheat with votes.. infact this is even easier because theres 10000 services for it already

in the end same servers will be at the top of the list.
Why? Because their actually popular and has tons of real players.
the first 10 servers are on otservlist are servers that were online for YEARS with constant updates. Do you think those admins would give a shit about keeping their servers on if it didnt give them lots of money? That comes from real PAYING players. not SPOOFS.
Dude, the question is very simple to see, analyze the fact that in the whole world only open tibia is the way it is, that is, is there something wrong?

If so, we are talking about the most suspicious list in the entire universe!

All of us here are mature enough to know that there is a better system programmer than @xinn and his system. It is very easy to be deceived.
There has even been an unfinished project in this sense: [WIP] Spoof System by andersonfaaria · Pull Request #2 · andersonfaaria/forgottenserver (https://github.com/andersonfaaria/forgottenserver/pull/2/files)

Furthermore, this same project mentioned above has carried out CUSTOM simulation for online players.

I know this is not the topic of the topic, but the questions are mixed, mainly due to the blatant incompetence of a list that has been the same for 2 decades, and that the owner (who is a programmer) only knows how to judge, and put himself as a judge in people's lives!

So, it's past time for OTLAND to make room for the new to arrive, I'm in this community since 2008, and here it's the same otservlist thing for almost 2 decades.

It's past time for OTLAND, as here above, make room for new lists on your forum OR DON'T RECOMMEND ONE AND BE NEUTRAL!
Post automatically merged:

Watch this video, what the bot is able to do on the world of warcraft private server



Or this player bot project in world of warcraft with AI system (artificial intelligence), does everything a normal player does: GitHub - celguar/mangosbot-bots: Bot AI Core from ike3 for cmangos/mangos classic/tbc/wotlk (https://github.com/celguar/mangosbot-bots)

See the document explaining what the above guy's system does on a world of warcraft private server:
I could spend all day here gathering evidence that in the gaming universe this is it, and only the otservlist does something the other way around!

If you want can I find evidence in other games, including scripts? Just send me requesting!
 
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Ahilphino

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Dude, the question is very simple to see, analyze the fact that in the whole world only open tibia is the way it is, that is, is there something wrong?

If so, we are talking about the most suspicious list in the entire universe!

All of us here are mature enough to know that there is a better system programmer than @Xin and his system. It is very easy to be deceived.
There has even been an unfinished project in this sense: [WIP] Spoof System by andersonfaaria · Pull Request #2 · andersonfaaria/forgottenserver (https://github.com/andersonfaaria/forgottenserver/pull/2/files)

Furthermore, this same project mentioned above has carried out CUSTOM simulation for online players.

I know this is not the topic of the topic, but the questions are mixed, mainly due to the blatant incompetence of a list that has been the same for 2 decades, and that the owner (who is a programmer) only knows how to judge, and put himself as a judge in people's lives!

So, it's past time for OTLAND to make room for the new to arrive, I'm in this community since 2008, and here it's the same otservlist thing for almost 2 decades.

It's past time for OTLAND, as here above, make room for new lists on your forum OR DON'T RECOMMEND ONE AND BE NEUTRAL!
Post automatically merged:

Watch this video, what the bot is able to do on the world of warcraft private server



Or this player bot project in world of warcraft with IE system (artificial intelligence), does everything a normal player does: GitHub - celguar/mangosbot-bots: Bot AI Core from ike3 for cmangos/mangos classic/tbc/wotlk (https://github.com/celguar/mangosbot-bots)

See the document explaining what the above guy's system does on a world of warcraft private server:
I could spend all day here gathering evidence that in the gaming universe this is it, and only the otservlist does something the other way around!

If you want can I find evidence in other inclu
Hahahaha the clown code you posted is an instant ban, none of the top server spoofs. They get detected and banned
 

heitorzinhotc

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Hahahaha the clown code you posted is an instant ban, none of the top server spoofs. They get detected and banned

If that actually happens it's really sad, as I'm just expressing my opinion and presenting evidence. With evidence there are no arguments. Only that.
Post automatically merged:


Folks, please don't be hypocritical, we are all mature here (MOST ARE OLD ALREADY, SO IT'S OUR TIME TO LEAVE, FASTER THAN 20 YEARS AGO) enough!

Harsh words need to be said!
 
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nugo

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To be ohnest OTserverlist is vital to the current OT ecosytstem. Its brand is synonomys with its longjevity and new and especially old returning players flock to it because thats what they know or the first thing google sends them to. You could get rid of it and replace it with somthing else but it would not be that effective for years if ever at all.

It drives traffic to this site and stops another rival community spawning. I understand why it was done back in the day but it might not be as relevent now, i think Xinn would have a difficult time trying to spawn a second community in the modern OT era.

Obviously theirs been some disagreements between reputable people in the scene and Xinn. Who really knows who is in the right? its a typical he said/she said senario but the average player doesnt see any of that and to be ohnest if you serveyed the OT community and asked if they knew who Xinn was i can almost gaunrtee an overwelming majority would have no idea. They just want an OT to play.

It does seem people are motivated by personal vendettas against Xinn to have the fourm removed. Some of these could be justafied who knows but removing the emotion from it all is ask yourself, is it better for the community overall? like really ask yourself is the removal of Otserverlist from this fourm and the link from OTserverlist to this fourm going to benefit anyone? I feel like the OT community & OTland overall would be worse off if both partys went their seperate ways.
 

Hover Design

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For what is this otservlist? I check one random page and I find 19 same servers with same layout and informations.


c1.png
 

Saphron

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Pardon my lack of knowledge (Obviously I may be wrong I don't know how it works so thus the question) but I have to ask out of pure curiosity, Xinn isn't paying anyone to have a subforum here right?

right?
 

soul4soul

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Another 2 cents from a nobody, I felt the need to voice my opinion because I find the whole thread saddening. I voted to remove the otservlist forum, I don't see any useful purpose of its existence. otservlist could easily run a discord server or stick with email there is mainly two types of threads posted. One complaining about some server is spoofing and the other is why is my server banned from the list and neither are addressed. On the other hand I don't see any problem with a static link to otservlist under one of the menus on otland.

I find the moderation of otland to be subpar and I don't agree with the formal warning or bans to any users including xinn in this thread. There is trolling on otland worse then two users directing the same insult at each other in what was generally a reasonable debate. The rules of otland make no sense to me, why would this board be treat differently or more leniently then any other board, why is that information not included in the rules if its known by moderators. Kay and Xinn weren't even given lenience since they received warning points.

I don't understand xinn's logic in emailing random server owners asking for specific information and protocol status. If there is a protocol status that would improve otservs why not submit a PR to tfs and otservbr for all servers to use. It's behavior that doesn't leave me feeling confident in the fairness of otservlist.

Last, xinn's reply and feeling should have no barring on the subforum sticking around or not, adding moderator posts to the OP is one thing but adding xinn's post makes it appear admins/moderators are giving him the decision making power when it should solely be up to the admin/moderators.
 

snoff

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So how much longer before admins sweep this thread under the rug?
1 week, month ?

Ps
Good to know votes got meaning here haha
 

Iryont

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That's another thing worth mentioning here again.

Lets take a look at generic deviation of online users throughout a day.

Tibia:

6cOs1f7.png


14000 (max) vs 4500 (min) just before server save. Minimum is at 32% of max.

Tibiantis:

rZ1qZ8M.png


186 (max) vs 50 (min) just before server save. Minimum is at 32% of max.

Medivia:

Thl3sta.png


1800 (max) vs 600 (min) just before server save. Minimum is at 33% of max.

s4.wearetibia.com:

2fjP3eS.png


I honestly don't know what to look at (kekw). But lets assume 390 (max) vs 350 (min). Minimum is at 90% of max.

sv.baiak-ilusion.com:

ksiObEZ.png


800 (max) vs 710 (min). Minimum is about 89% of max at peak times.

sv.kaldrox.com:

WAg9e4D.png


It's difficult to look at, since apparently server save is right after peak time. Anyway, 1300 (max) vs 940 (min). Minimum is at 72% of max.

on.aurera-global.com:

sGgI8gP.png


This one seems to be the most accurate one out of those above. 1500 (max) vs 900 (min). Minimum is about 60% of max.

You can find more ridiculous examples going through the list. I just picked up those from the post above or / and some random ones.

That being said, online numbers shown here from the list are simply not plausible. They are either backed up by afk online trainers or other things I don't know about. However, of course, we can assume they follow list rules of 4 IPs per player, so that's all fine and we are good.
 

Ahilphino

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How are those examples ridicilous? Are you dense?

These servers ALLOW bots. You can be online ALL DAY.
Servers are not like medivia and tibiantis where you get banned.
You can keep your bot online 24/7 on 4 CHARACTERS. OFcourse their graphs will look different than a server where you cant be AFK at all on 1 CHARACTER!

AND BTW. players enjoy that. I love playing these bot servers and watching my character grow and my money go up. Then when im home i can go and have some fun with pvping or quests.
 
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