What were the blockers for you when developing a server?

[messenoire]

Things seem to happen here so let me stir some shit too. Let's see how many problems we can solve on our own. Don't worry I'm not demanding anything, I'll be writing code too. I just want the work to end up available for everybody and not in someone's repository on hard drive xyz in the bedroom closet (with corrupted filesystem).

Any ideas where to put it? Fork everything? Fork nothing, spam PRs? I'm a little clueless.

I feel like a lot of time goes into bootstrapping everything and then bending TFS to my will before really being able to start actual development. Off the top of my head:

• Having to write raw SQL to get a goddamn admin account
• Group flags are powerful but annoying but I think a reference to the most useful ones and instructions how to calculate would suffice
• The hell is this map just gimme a 1098 compatible 100x100 square with a square temple with square pz and a square depot chest and a square orc warrior so I can TEST my SQUARES bruh
• XML is annoying, let's do monsters and NPCs in Lua already
• This schizophrenia between 7.4..7.7, 7.8..8.1, 8.4..8.7, 9.x+, 10.x+ all of these hat BIG changes so you can theoretically build many different games out of this one, but downgrading is hard and you don't always want to give up all features and it is often not clear how to implement the old version of feature X because it only exists as old code. It feels like an impossible amount of work. You can work around it but sooner or later the complexity will fuck you up. I realize this is a very hard problem, making this thing "modular" like this is again, an impossible amount of work. A possibility would be a bare bones TFS distribution keeping the modern code but implementing only bedrock 7.0 features and mechanics and old school style articles on how to implement certain features from specific versions, with people ultimately releasing their own spins. This is cool because we'd "reset" at 7.0 and diverge from CipSoft's Tibia from there. Also, REDUCED COMPLEXITY YAY
• Ever tried adding sprites? Hell breaks loose, must update 18 items.otb everywhere. We're all have RME open all the time anyway, what if we put a rudimentary items.spr, items.dat, items.otb editor right in there? How hard can it be, right? For real though, anyone has hacked on RME, would that be manageable?
• I run Linux all day everyday on everything amd64 fuck yeah BUT dl-map-and-run Windows builds with sqlite are a must for rapid development or fun on the lan

How about you?

 

[MikeOT]

This is hilariously true. I typed out a huge post venting about it just now, but deleted it.

Honestly, this WHOLE thing at this point is just one gigantic fight from the time you download a distro from github. Unless you just want a real map download and run server, you ABSOLUTELY would be substantially better off just sinking your time into learning something like Unity/C#.

 

[messenoire]

Let's not vent bro, let's write down what's a pain in the ass and see if we can solve this. I don't think we have to give up all of this and flock to Unity or something.

The client. Looks like this v8 version of OTClient will not be released as open source and the code we have available has big problems ALTHOUGH I think it's not far off from being viable. A last write up from @edubart on how this thing works so we can try and fix the animations, rendering etc. would be insanely helpful.

We should write down what our "MVP" for a basic Tibialike MMO would require, using either the oldest or simplest solutions for everything, then INDIVIDUALLY write down what feature or change was implemented and what are the consequences or dependencies so we know how to build what we want to build.

I think we can also stop giving a fuck about emulating Tibia 100%... Let's keep what we have and build something independent of Tibia, that shares the same lineage but enables people to build an own world on top of it. A few years ago we've thought pixely games are dead, now we've clearly seen retro games aren't going anywhere and CipSoft is just stupid as fuck. We're sitting on a gold mine lmao

 

[oen432]

we can try and fix the animations, rendering etc.

Number 1 priority since forever, we are all waiting for someone that can do what kondrah did (or close to) and release it for free. You all can write hundred of threads and posts saying SAME THING over and over again, that won't change anything. We need manpower...

 

[Evil Puncker]

What were the blockers for you when developing a server?

1. NO MAPPING SKILLS
2. Not wanting to use RL map
3. Can't decide what map to use (switched maps a thousand times already)

 

[messenoire]

Number 1 priority since forever, we are all waiting for someone that can do what kondrah did (or close to) and release it for free. You all can write hundred of threads and posts saying SAME THING over and over again, that won't change anything. We need manpower...

Didn't mean to make the another "pls fix client" thread, I only followed what happens here sporadically so wasn't aware what has been tried and what not. I mean fuck, it's C++ not Brainfuck and 2D computer graphics and not experimental quantum physics simulations. Well I guess I have something to do over the weekend.

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2020

1. NO MAPPING SKILLS
2. Not wanting to use RL map
3. Can't decide what map to use (switched maps a thousand times already)

Not sure I can help with lack of skills but I do agree that mapping something nice takes an extremely long time, which is kinda mostly spent searching for the right sprites and bordering. Perhaps organizing the brushes better and improving the defaults for the autoborder for some sprites would help already.

 

[rlx]

1. NO MAPPING SKILLS
2. Not wanting to use RL map
3. Can't decide what map to use (switched maps a thousand times already)

TL;DR - download maps and take favourite parts from them to mix together in your world

I had exectly same problem. I ran my 14 yo server (7.6/7.81/8.1 seasons) and started to work out and learn mapping/simple lua codes again, this time for my TFS server. Thanks to @celohere I could run my old files on similar protocol server and have fun updating, refreshing map/server functions and creating new ones, which I couldn't even think of back then. Not to mention the stability (in compare with xml) and soruces/library of the server.

My map was so dull and unplayable as for today standards, that it became too time-consuming for me to rethink and recreate everything from my own.

I just downloaded as many maps for close protocols I could find and searched for the parts I would like to see inside my dreamland. I stopped developing my server in the middle of implementing interesting map parts into my existing world. I can't wait to expand and open my little sever again, but unfortunately real life things win this time. I'm thankful for everyone who shared their projects and I try to credit them in-game.

 

[zbizu]

years ago when I was starting:

• endless creation and never ending to-do list
• no money/bank account to buy hosting

when I resolved these I started a server:

• lots of content but nothing to make people stay
• critical item duplication bug with unknown cause that ruined the server for good (fixed long after server stopped)

last 6 years:

• no time/will to create my own thing

now:

• also no time to maintain anything on my own because I'm helping with 2 projects, coding a software in order to pass the semester and trying to give tfs more features

 

[zuber966]

Where TF is continue in Lua?

@zbizu if you code in java at college, let me know and project will be done in a blink of an eye

 

[Wavoz]

Lack of players! There are no new players in Tibia. Most of the players only like real map or oldschool servers or both. I have seen some amazing servers out there with many cool details and a lot of work put into making one, and the server simply won't take off since there are 10 players online.
Only way to have a successful server these days is to make real map oldschool server and have someone famous on twitch playing it.

I have quit many of my projects when i realize that there will be nobody playing it.

For an example take a look at Devland, everything is perfect about it, just no players. h

 

[Zasranets]

I've always just been a player with zero knowledge in anything development related and no motivation to learn. I couldn't see myself enjoying a server I created and knew everything about it whereas I would have to get my satisfaction knowing other players are getting enjoyment out of it. I have so many projects and ideas i've gathered over the years. I'd love to try and make some of them come true.

I was recently thinking that after 10+ years I might finally try to make my own server. It seems like there are so many free resources out there that even a pure noob like me should be able to get something small going. Then I read your post on how mentally challenging and complicated things can be. Makes me lose hope lol.

 

[J.Dre]

Today, my biggest feat is coming up with funds to continue development. Unfortunately, I’m at a point in my project where I’m unable to proceed without help from skilled individuals. A lot of tasks are beyond my expertise.

Time has always been an issue, however. Juggling life, school, work, and my project is difficult.

 

[Redleaf]

Honestly, last time I tried to host a server it was 10+ years ago and it was easy enough to modify everything & get things running (they're still moderately simple). It was a YurOTs map and mostly opened it to have fun with friends.

These days, I have a lot of ideas on what I would love to do for a server, but none of the time, knowledge, or resources to do so. That and most of the people I used to play with are long since gone from Tibia/OTs/Games in general (being an adult sucks, lol).

Regards,
Cody