I will balance vocations with spells and weapons and more but how?

[byllan1337]

Hey. I wonder which vocation is the strongest in tibia? Is it mage or druid? How i going to balance my vocation who have the best attacks and healings and who dosen't?

Is it like this?

Best 1. Sorcerer. 2. Druid.
Bad 3. Knight.
Very Bad 4. Paladin.

 

[Progenosis]

In servers, druids and sorcerers have a very big "plus" because of his mana shield and great mana pool, druids take advantage due to their eternal winter spell as we see servers fulls of fire type creatures, that's why druids are (most of) the preferred vocation to play on servers.

How to balance?

I've been wondering the same since a few weeks and I have been doing tests on a 8.6 server, what I've done is:
I've increase the attack speed of knights and paladin and raised their skill gain, also improved their healing techniques (an improved ultimate healing rune that increases 25% more than normal UH rune).

I really don't know how much this changes the balance of the vocations, what I can see so far is that the paladin still in far unbalanced, maybe we could solve it with more attack spells? better weapons? or maybe If we increase the skill gain rate?

We have to start doing numbers but taking this into account: Balanced (to me) doesn't mean deal the same amount of HP to a monster or healing at the same rate.

Each vocation has its function, its strong points and weak points and it must remain in order to be balanced.

 

[ZeeBeast]

In servers, druids and sorcerers have a very big "plus" because of his mana shield and great mana pool, druids take advantage due to their eternal winter spell as we see servers fulls of fire type creatures, that's why druids are (most of) the preferred vocation to play on servers.

How to balance?

I've been wondering the same since a few weeks and I have been doing tests on a 8.6 server, what I've done is:
I've increase the attack speed of knights and paladin and raised their skill gain, also improved their healing techniques (an improved ultimate healing rune that increases 25% more than normal UH rune).

I really don't know how much this changes the balance of the vocations, what I can see so far is that the paladin still in far unbalanced, maybe we could solve it with more attack spells? better weapons? or maybe If we increase the skill gain rate?

We have to start doing numbers but taking this into account: Balanced (to me) doesn't mean deal the same amount of HP to a monster or healing at the same rate.

Each vocation has its function, its strong points and weak points and it must remain in order to be balanced.

If you tested paladin on 8.6.. they have mana shield + invis which makes them very OP in the tank portion.

 

[byllan1337]

Thank you guys!

 

[Progenosis]

If you tested paladin on 8.6.. they have mana shield + invis which makes them very OP in the tank portion.

How do you think you could balance vocations? This is what this thread is for, right?
What's your opinion about it?

 

[ZeeBeast]

How do you think you could balance vocations? This is what this thread is for, right?
What's your opinion about it?

To be honest, I would take out mana shield for paladins, improve weapons for pallys, improve skill rate for knights and maybe adjust some armor stuff.

--Edit--
Of course I would adjust a lot more but I wouldn't think of it all atm.

 

[filipus]

They shouldn't be balanced at all in my opinion, each should have a specific role. What I mean by that is that in a 1vs1 situation vocations shouldn't be balanced (150 knight vs 150 sorcerer per example).
Think of the idea of weaknesses and strong attributes and what roles they are suppose to fill.

But that is my opinion.

 

[ZeeBeast]

They shouldn't be balanced at all in my opinion, each should have a specific role. What I mean by that is that in a 1vs1 situation vocations shouldn't be balanced (150 knight vs 150 sorcerer per example).
Think of the idea of weaknesses and strong attributes and what roles they are suppose to fill.

But that is my opinion.

You have to be aware though, this is 8.6. There was a lot of balancing in RL Tibia before the classes were good.

 

[BBFalcon89]

I always feel that vocations don't need to be balanced, people who play druids should concentrate on healing, sorcs on being glass AOE cannons, paladins should be a glass single target cannon, and knights should just focus on tanking. Having every vocation be able to do everything just makes having 4 vocations redundant.

 

[oen432]

Adding more % to magic protections (fire, ice etc.) in armor should be good. Ofc only for Paladins and Knights.

 

[Eldin]

Vocation Balancing as one of the hardest parts.

Would you like them all the a DPS type or all to be strong in different situations?
Make up your mind and work towards that idea and goal, you can never make everyone happy as they'll Always wine on their vocation unless its OP.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.

 

[Xikini]

Vocation Balancing as one of the hardest parts.

Would you like them all the a DPS type or all to be strong in different situations?
Make up your mind and work towards that idea and goal, you can never make everyone happy as they'll Always wine on their vocation unless its OP.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.

Your wrong. On my friends server I get complaints that their class is too OP.

As for balancing vocations.
The main concern that should be addressed is how pvp and pvm are designed.

Currently pvm and pvp are intertwined and causes many many problems.
If you are able to take pvp and pvm apart, and look at that separately many problems could be alleviated.

Make anything that effects monsters, no longer effect pvp, and anything that effects pvp to no longer effect pvm, And you will have a great base to work on for real balancing.

 

[filipus]

You have to be aware though, this is 8.6. There was a lot of balancing in RL Tibia before the classes were good.

Do you think that in 8.6 if you put 2 characters in the same level and same amout of resources but different vocations there would not be one that would kill the other? And even if they didn't that is exactly my problem. The classes in tibia don't fill any specific role.

 

[ZeeBeast]

Do you think that in 8.6 if you put 2 characters in the same level and same amout of resources but different vocations there would not be one that would kill the other? And even if they didn't that is exactly my problem. The classes in tibia don't fill any specific role.

Thanks to mana shield and spirit pots, Paladin is the most tank class.

 

[filipus]

Thanks to mana shield and spirit pots, Paladin is the most tank class.

I don't think we are speaking the same language hahaha
Did you understand what I said?

 

[Xikini]

I don't think we are speaking the same language hahaha
Did you understand what I said?

What he is trying to say is that 1 vs 1, Paladin can Kill a knight, sorcerer, and druid in rl tibia.
The only way a player can survive a paladin, is if the paladin runs out of ammunition, before the other player dies.
With mana shield + great spirit pots, a paladin can keep their hp up, and heal double with hp + mana + spells, Making them extremely tanky and harder to kill then knight's in almost every situation.
With the paladins ability to also ignore shielding value, to a certain extent, They also hit higher consistent damage on single targets then the other classes.

However in pvp you must realize that 1 vs 1 does not matter much, as it's usually 5-6 vs equal or larger groups of opponents. That being said, Have nothing but druid/sorcerer's is much scarier then 5-6 paladins. Paladins hit consistently high damage, whereas Mages hit Higher burst damage, enabling groups of mages to quickly clear a single target more quickly.

Knight = Good Pvm and moderate vs mages, weak to paladins.
Paladin = Great Pvm, Good to Knights, moderate to mages. Also has holy attacks
Druid = Good pvm, moderate to knights, moderate to mages, moderate to paladin. Can heal other's paralyze and has ice.
Sorcerer = Moderate pvm, moderate to knights, moderate to mages, moderate to paladin.

From best to worst pvm level 200
Paladin
Druid
Knight
Sorcerer

From best to worst pvp level 200
Paladin = Druid
Sorcerer
Knight

From best to worst pvm level 600
Knight
Paladin
Druid
Sorcerer

From Best to worst pvp level 600
Knight
Druid
Paladin = Sorcerer

The reason Knight's become the best later on, is because their damage at higher levels becomes consistently higher every 100 levels, until their normal melee damage is equal to Sudden death runes. They now hit as powerful as mages, their healing ability skyrockets, low mana cost, & they have extremely high Capacity and Health.

Knight's main drawback is being slower then other vocations at lower levels, but once they reach higher levels it's nearly impossible to keep at a distance, versus players with nearly max speed due to lag.

One thing that isn't mentioned is that, Once again, Sorcerer's/Druid's in larger groups will be better in pvp Mainly due to them having such high burst damage, that can be targeted to anywhere on screen at a distance. With some co-ordination, 8 mages could hit somewhere close to 12k damage in 2 turns (3 seconds using runes). Which will decimate any single player target.

This is turning into a rant. I'm going to stop here. Tell me if you want more.

 

[byllan1337]

What he is trying to say is that 1 vs 1, Paladin can Kill a knight, sorcerer, and druid in rl tibia.
The only way a player can survive a paladin, is if the paladin runs out of ammunition, before the other player dies.
With mana shield + great spirit pots, a paladin can keep their hp up, and heal double with hp + mana + spells, Making them extremely tanky and harder to kill then knight's in almost every situation.
With the paladins ability to also ignore shielding value, to a certain extent, They also hit higher consistent damage on single targets then the other classes.

However in pvp you must realize that 1 vs 1 does not matter much, as it's usually 5-6 vs equal or larger groups of opponents. That being said, Have nothing but druid/sorcerer's is much scarier then 5-6 paladins. Paladins hit consistently high damage, whereas Mages hit Higher burst damage, enabling groups of mages to quickly clear a single target more quickly.

Knight = Good Pvm and moderate vs mages, weak to paladins.
Paladin = Great Pvm, Good to Knights, moderate to mages. Also has holy attacks
Druid = Good pvm, moderate to knights, moderate to mages, moderate to paladin. Can heal other's paralyze and has ice.
Sorcerer = Moderate pvm, moderate to knights, moderate to mages, moderate to paladin.

From best to worst pvm level 200
Paladin
Druid
Knight
Sorcerer

From best to worst pvp level 200
Paladin = Druid
Sorcerer
Knight

From best to worst pvm level 600
Knight
Paladin
Druid
Sorcerer

From Best to worst pvp level 600
Knight
Druid
Paladin = Sorcerer

The reason Knight's become the best later on, is because their damage at higher levels becomes consistently higher every 100 levels, until their normal melee damage is equal to Sudden death runes. They now hit as powerful as mages, their healing ability skyrockets, low mana cost, & they have extremely high Capacity and Health.

Knight's main drawback is being slower then other vocations at lower levels, but once they reach higher levels it's nearly impossible to keep at a distance, versus players with nearly max speed due to lag.

One thing that isn't mentioned is that, Once again, Sorcerer's/Druid's in larger groups will be better in pvp Mainly due to them having such high burst damage, that can be targeted to anywhere on screen at a distance. With some co-ordination, 8 mages could hit somewhere close to 12k damage in 2 turns (3 seconds using runes). Which will decimate any single player target.

This is turning into a rant. I'm going to stop here. Tell me if you want more.

That was a good answer. Thank you for that!

 

[ZeeBeast]

What he is trying to say is that 1 vs 1, Paladin can Kill a knight, sorcerer, and druid in rl tibia.
The only way a player can survive a paladin, is if the paladin runs out of ammunition, before the other player dies.
With mana shield + great spirit pots, a paladin can keep their hp up, and heal double with hp + mana + spells, Making them extremely tanky and harder to kill then knight's in almost every situation.
With the paladins ability to also ignore shielding value, to a certain extent, They also hit higher consistent damage on single targets then the other classes.

However in pvp you must realize that 1 vs 1 does not matter much, as it's usually 5-6 vs equal or larger groups of opponents. That being said, Have nothing but druid/sorcerer's is much scarier then 5-6 paladins. Paladins hit consistently high damage, whereas Mages hit Higher burst damage, enabling groups of mages to quickly clear a single target more quickly.

Knight = Good Pvm and moderate vs mages, weak to paladins.
Paladin = Great Pvm, Good to Knights, moderate to mages. Also has holy attacks
Druid = Good pvm, moderate to knights, moderate to mages, moderate to paladin. Can heal other's paralyze and has ice.
Sorcerer = Moderate pvm, moderate to knights, moderate to mages, moderate to paladin.

From best to worst pvm level 200
Paladin
Druid
Knight
Sorcerer

From best to worst pvp level 200
Paladin = Druid
Sorcerer
Knight

From best to worst pvm level 600
Knight
Paladin
Druid
Sorcerer

From Best to worst pvp level 600
Knight
Druid
Paladin = Sorcerer

The reason Knight's become the best later on, is because their damage at higher levels becomes consistently higher every 100 levels, until their normal melee damage is equal to Sudden death runes. They now hit as powerful as mages, their healing ability skyrockets, low mana cost, & they have extremely high Capacity and Health.

Knight's main drawback is being slower then other vocations at lower levels, but once they reach higher levels it's nearly impossible to keep at a distance, versus players with nearly max speed due to lag.

One thing that isn't mentioned is that, Once again, Sorcerer's/Druid's in larger groups will be better in pvp Mainly due to them having such high burst damage, that can be targeted to anywhere on screen at a distance. With some co-ordination, 8 mages could hit somewhere close to 12k damage in 2 turns (3 seconds using runes). Which will decimate any single player target.

This is turning into a rant. I'm going to stop here. Tell me if you want more.

I'm pretty sure this thread was made for exactly this. This input was great and I know I will keep this in mind while balancing.