Is exploration still a thing? (Large maps topic)

[Karain]

Hello there, ever since i started creating my first Ots back in 7.6 and discovered my passion for mapping, i find it frequent to lose myself mapping and end up creating a zone that's really huge (something that takes 30 - 90 min to fully explore, depending on the level and speed).

Right now my passion is renewed with a grand idea for a truly immersive RPG realm, i already created map sketches, laid down do-able custom mechanics. but one thing struck me.

Will player be truely motivated to explore a very massive world? i mean... REALLY massive, talking about 5-6 continents of the size of free-account tibia mainland stitched together into 1 giant landmass.

Surely there will lots of lore, quests, secrets and tons of detailed devoted to them. but i wonder if that will be enough.

I'd like to hear more from you guys about this. I promise i will keep you updated on my project if anyone is interested.

Thanks.
Karain

 

[owned]

As long as all the areas have a "point" and there's something to do at each one, not repetitive.

 

[Flatlander]

The game has to reward exploration for it to be "A Thing"

If you explore and FIND a quest, like you are exploring a forest and there is an NPC and he says Goblins attacked him and stole his watch. Then suddenly you are on this quest to find the Watch Theives! You find the goblins, get the watch back, bring it back to the NPC and he says "Thank you! Here is a reward for your trouble!"
Then here is the important part.. the NPC has to DISAPPEAR and appear somewhere else on the map later with something else stolen by some other monster.

This way, people will always be exploring the map, finding NPCs that need help, hidden quests and chests and dungeons and all sorts of things.

If you ever think back, when you were EXPLORING and looking around the map, it was boring if you didn't find anything, but when you found something cool and new it was exciting.

Mostly now everyone just makes a map like this.

1. Make a town
2. Make Hunting Areas and Quests around the town
3. Make each NPC in the town start the quests around the town.
   
4. Repeat the above for each town

What does this mean? No exploring will ever be done, players go to Town1, do all the quests, go to town 2, do all the quests, go to town 3, do all the quests. End of server.

 

[Karain]

What i was thinking was something like a caravan and ship transport to major cities + small towns (only if you explored said towns )

Also since there will be a huge amounts of land deep in the wilderness. I suppose it will be a prime real estate for outlaw-type guilds to have as their base of operations.

Any one have experience to share in large maps as player or creator? Even if it was just sight seeing XD

 

[Flatlander]

What i was thinking was something like a caravan and ship transport to major cities + small towns (only if you explored said towns )

Also since there will be a huge amounts of land deep in the wilderness. I suppose it will be a prime real estate for outlaw-type guilds to have as their base of operations.

Any one have experience to share in large maps as player or creator? Even if it was just sight seeing XD

The biggest reason people play tibia is because they enjoy community. They like that there are other players that they have to interract with.

Now lets take Real Tibia for example. There has always been 200-800 people online on their servers. but they keep adding new areas.
Darashia and Ankrahmun, Port Hope, Liberty Bay, Yalahar, Zao. And as they added more and more areas, other areas of the map emptied out completely.

There used to be people standing outside Thais DP hanging out, if you walked around you'd see people everywhere, the entire world seemed alive. Now the map is so big you might see one person in each spawn, and a few people in each depot.

So when making a large map you are also making an empty world. Unless you find a way to fix that. (I have fixed it on my upcoming server)

 

[Exorcist]

1. I love exploring, on most ots ill explore the whole map but already have a mind set that this is going to be useless but if you can make a great map thats even worth exploring hats of to you, and @Flatlander how'd you fix that and your actually back to developing?

 

[Flatlander]

1. I love exploring, on most ots ill explore the whole map but already have a mind set that this is going to be useless but if you can make a great map thats even worth exploring hats of to you, and @Flatlander how'd you fix that and your actually back to developing?

I never stopped developing.
My issue is I like MAKING servers more than hosting them.

I literally have over 20 half-completed servers, but I decided to work on a HUGE project and create something bigger, more complex, and more fun than anything I have ever done.

The way I fixed it is I have completely re-scripted creature AI, Remeres Map Editor, and the spawning system to allow me to have creatures attack towns and take them over.

So if a town has a Forest and Goblins live there, they will slowly take over more and more of the forest, then once they have completely infested the forest they will start sending raiding parties to attack the town. If players don't help defend it they will take over the town.

I'm also using the OTClient, so when you die, you pick your spawning location rather than being bound to a town. So you can spawn in any "open" town that is currently controlled by players. By doing this, the server kind of "Migrates" across the map, you might only have enough players active to keep 3 or 4 towns defended, the rest of the map is controlled by monsters.

Money you spend in towns will be used to hire guards to protect the town, so as long as you are hunting, doing quests, and selling loot, buying items, etc, the town will be able to buy guards to defend itself.

 

[owned]

I never stopped developing.
My issue is I like MAKING servers more than hosting them.

I literally have over 20 half-completed servers, but I decided to work on a HUGE project and create something bigger, more complex, and more fun than anything I have ever done.

The way I fixed it is I have completely re-scripted creature AI, Remeres Map Editor, and the spawning system to allow me to have creatures attack towns and take them over.

So if a town has a Forest and Goblins live there, they will slowly take over more and more of the forest, then once they have completely infested the forest they will start sending raiding parties to attack the town. If players don't help defend it they will take over the town.

I'm also using the OTClient, so when you die, you pick your spawning location rather than being bound to a town. So you can spawn in any "open" town that is currently controlled by players. By doing this, the server kind of "Migrates" across the map, you might only have enough players active to keep 3 or 4 towns defended, the rest of the map is controlled by monsters.

Money you spend in towns will be used to hire guards to protect the town, so as long as you are hunting, doing quests, and selling loot, buying items, etc, the town will be able to buy guards to defend itself.

Well played, would love to see the completed version of this.

 

[kikos]

I never stopped developing.
My issue is I like MAKING servers more than hosting them.

I literally have over 20 half-completed servers, but I decided to work on a HUGE project and create something bigger, more complex, and more fun than anything I have ever done.

The way I fixed it is I have completely re-scripted creature AI, Remeres Map Editor, and the spawning system to allow me to have creatures attack towns and take them over.

So if a town has a Forest and Goblins live there, they will slowly take over more and more of the forest, then once they have completely infested the forest they will start sending raiding parties to attack the town. If players don't help defend it they will take over the town.

I'm also using the OTClient, so when you die, you pick your spawning location rather than being bound to a town. So you can spawn in any "open" town that is currently controlled by players. By doing this, the server kind of "Migrates" across the map, you might only have enough players active to keep 3 or 4 towns defended, the rest of the map is controlled by monsters.

Money you spend in towns will be used to hire guards to protect the town, so as long as you are hunting, doing quests, and selling loot, buying items, etc, the town will be able to buy guards to defend itself.

cool, finish this

 

[Flatlander]

cool, finish this

Well played, would love to see the completed version of this.

I'll do my best, it takes more time than a normal server.
I'm basically making a entirely new game at this point, which is exciting to me and keeps me interested so I can keep working on it.

I couldn't say when it will be done, I have to design a ton more things on the client, and finish polishing and customizing my own version of TFS.

 

[totolol123]

I'll do my best, it takes more time than a normal server.
I'm basically making a entirely new game at this point, which is exciting to me and keeps me interested so I can keep working on it.

I couldn't say when it will be done, I have to design a ton more things on the client, and finish polishing and customizing my own version of TFS.

I think you can search someone for make custom sprites, will be very good new graphics too xD

 

[Peonso]

Level cap/grind are to related important points. If the content is trivial to certain level range, the area itself becames pointless for the players at high levels. If you need to grind to reach the content (for resources/experience) people won't bother trying or will bot.

 

[Zasranets]

I love to explore, like literately it's one of my favorite things to do. <3 What I don't like it when exploring has no point. A map needs to be well done, have tons of quests, secrets, riddles, and so on all around the map(secrets, riddles, hidden stuff in general is soooo much fun). I hate when I'm exploring and I find a huge pointless place with some monsters but nothing else, I also hate hate teleports to place. I don't mind a few here and there for certain purpose but teleport maps are absolutely boring. I don't mind waypoint type systems. You still explore and if you ever die and need to go back to a place you can use way points to get closer to your destination. I would love a sever with so much content that each day I could just explore and explore! because most servers these days you end up exploring and doing everything there is to do in less in a week and then there is nothing to do.. I don't even remember the last server I played for longer than a week -_-

 

[Karain]

i think slow rates fits well with large maps, that way you won't end up with 90% of the players leveling, exploring in 1 zone and then move on to another place the next day, deserting the low level ones.

I never stopped developing.
My issue is I like MAKING servers more than hosting them.

I literally have over 20 half-completed servers, but I decided to work on a HUGE project and create something bigger, more complex, and more fun than anything I have ever done.

The way I fixed it is I have completely re-scripted creature AI, Remeres Map Editor, and the spawning system to allow me to have creatures attack towns and take them over.

So if a town has a Forest and Goblins live there, they will slowly take over more and more of the forest, then once they have completely infested the forest they will start sending raiding parties to attack the town. If players don't help defend it they will take over the town.

I'm also using the OTClient, so when you die, you pick your spawning location rather than being bound to a town. So you can spawn in any "open" town that is currently controlled by players. By doing this, the server kind of "Migrates" across the map, you might only have enough players active to keep 3 or 4 towns defended, the rest of the map is controlled by monsters.

Money you spend in towns will be used to hire guards to protect the town, so as long as you are hunting, doing quests, and selling loot, buying items, etc, the town will be able to buy guards to defend itself.

This is very similar to what i had in mind (except for the circulating money system per town), i also will add a reputation system that is shared per city/town/province that will provide various perks like special shops, lower prices, trade benefits, special mounts, titles, etc.

To encourage exploring the map as well, i will add a couple extra events that will change the map like forest fires, boulders fell on a mountain pass, bandits/pirates raiding the travel caravan/ship that you are in. army from other factions invading and destroying a certain city, etc. my end goal is to create a world that is very dynamic to a point that every day is never the same.

The biggest reason people play tibia is because they enjoy community. They like that there are other players that they have to interract with.

Now lets take Real Tibia for example. There has always been 200-800 people online on their servers. but they keep adding new areas.
Darashia and Ankrahmun, Port Hope, Liberty Bay, Yalahar, Zao. And as they added more and more areas, other areas of the map emptied out completely.

There used to be people standing outside Thais DP hanging out, if you walked around you'd see people everywhere, the entire world seemed alive. Now the map is so big you might see one person in each spawn, and a few people in each depot.

So when making a large map you are also making an empty world. Unless you find a way to fix that. (I have fixed it on my upcoming server)

so i suppose an idea for multiple starting locations is a bad thing? XD

 

[Flatlander]

I love to explore, like literately it's one of my favorite things to do. <3 What I don't like it when exploring has no point. A map needs to be well done, have tons of quests, secrets, riddles, and so on all around the map(secrets, riddles, hidden stuff in general is soooo much fun). I hate when I'm exploring and I find a huge pointless place with some monsters but nothing else, I also hate hate teleports to place. I don't mind a few here and there for certain purpose but teleport maps are absolutely boring. I don't mind waypoint type systems. You still explore and if you ever die and need to go back to a place you can use way points to get closer to your destination. I would love a sever with so much content that each day I could just explore and explore! because most servers these days you end up exploring and doing everything there is to do in less in a week and then there is nothing to do.. I don't even remember the last server I played for longer than a week -_-

The way to do teleports, is making them "one way". THAT way its exciting and scary. You are exploring a ruined city and you find a teleport on top of a clocktower. Then when you go through the teleport you are in a new place, and there is no way back. Now you have to explore a new, scary area and on your way out, maybe you'll encounter a boss monster or quest puzzle.

 

[owned]

The way to do teleports, is making them "one way". THAT way its exciting and scary. You are exploring a ruined city and you find a teleport on top of a clocktower. Then when you go through the teleport you are in a new place, and there is no way back. Now you have to explore a new, scary area and on your way out, maybe you'll encounter a boss monster or quest puzzle.

Teleports are good for one thing really and a lot of servers these days don't use em correctly. When players see a teleport, they should have to look at a teleport and be like damn, should i go in there or not. It should be something that a player needs to think about and possibly get a team for just to walk in or they risk the chance of death. When a player sees a teleport he should be absolutely clueless to what's on the otherside. Not go in, and see what they've already seen the last 15 minutes.

 

[Flatlander]

Teleports are good for one thing really and a lot of servers these days don't use em correctly. When players see a teleport, they should have to look at a teleport and be like damn, should i go in there or not. It should be something that a player needs to think about and possibly get a team for just to walk in or they risk the chance of death. When a player sees a teleport he should be absolutely clueless to what's on the otherside. Not go in, and see what they've already seen the last 15 minutes.

Exactly! There shouldn't be a sign in front of the teleport saying "Dragon Hunting Spawn". it should simply say "Danger!" or "Come on in! Free Candy!!!" and you don't know whether or not it is safe to go inside.

 

[owned]

Exactly! There shouldn't be a sign in front of the teleport saying "Dragon Hunting Spawn". it should simply say "Danger!" or "Come on in! Free Candy!!!" and you don't know whether or not it is safe to go inside.

hahahaha "Come on in! Free Candy!!!" now that's a perfect sign that'll get a player thinking lmfao.

 

[Karain]

I think it's fair to give players way-points on the map for points of interests like a village, a town, an entrance of a complex cave system (by default or they need to ask an npc for it) . that way they can stop and scroll around the mini-map if they got lost. maybe a pile of corpses lying around in highly dangerous places, just to remind them how deep they got themselves into trouble, hehehe -evil laughs-

 

[Flatlander]

I think it's fair to give players way-points on the map for points of interests like a village, a town, an entrance of a complex cave system (by default or they need to ask an npc for it) . that way they can stop and scroll around the mini-map if they got lost. maybe a pile of corpses lying around in highly dangerous places, just to remind them how deep they got themselves into trouble, hehehe -evil laughs-

I actually took out the Minimap. Instead players will have to either make, or buy maps.
For Example: "You see a Map of the Goblin Forest. Use this item to open the map window."
Then you use the item, it opens a map of the Goblin Forest.

I feel the minimap takes away from the game-world and makes the world feel much smaller.