Is exploration still a thing? (Large maps topic)

[Zasranets]

Exactly! There shouldn't be a sign in front of the teleport saying "Dragon Hunting Spawn". it should simply say "Danger!" or "Come on in! Free Candy!!!" and you don't know whether or not it is safe to go inside.

Yeah exactly! lol and I've seen this a few times in some servers and it's so nice. It gives it suspense which makes it exciting

I actually took out the Minimap. Instead players will have to either make, or buy maps.
For Example: "You see a Map of the Goblin Forest. Use this item to open the map window."
Then you use the item, it opens a map of the Goblin Forest.

I feel the minimap takes away from the game-world and makes the world feel much smaller.

Interesting idea I remember playing a game like this a long time ago where you had to find maps I think it was Zelda? I'm not sure but anyway it would be cool having to make maps, trade with caravan traders across the world, find/buy them, and so on.. though opening it up every time you want to look at it would get annoying, unless you made some kind of window for maps that you could keep opening while playing.

 

[Karain]

Nothing drives players in MMO's like quests, so to make a long chain quest that involves lots of traveling and exploring and unlocking secrets "indiana jones"-style will be a good plus too

 

[Flatlander]

Nothing drives players in MMO's like quests, so to make a long chain quest that involves lots of traveling and exploring and unlocking secrets "indiana jones"-style will be a good plus too

Kind of true, but it is VERY dangerous to say "Players like Quests! Lets make tons of Quests!" and think THAT is a good way to make a MMO or OT Server.

I feel there are 2 easy ways to make quests in an MMO. One is good, and one is Lazy and bad.

You don't have to read this but you can if you have time:

Spoiler: Small Server Description

Ok lets say you have a town, It's a nice fishing town, few NPCs, shops, maybe a guard or two. Simply a well made town in an MMO or OT Server.
Then nearby you have a Goblin Pirate Camp. It is BEAUTIFULLY mapped, the goblins are fun to kill and challenging. The loot is profitable and they sometimes drop rare items so it is exciting to hunt them.

Great! Now you have the map, time to make a quest!

So lets just say one of the NPCs from the Fishing Town had his fishing rod stolen by the Goblin Bandits, and you have been given the quest to get it back.

Lazy Goblin Bandits Stole My Fishing Rod Quest:

1. Get the quest from the NPC (Hi, Mission, Yes) default tibia quest accepting.
2. You go to the Goblin Bandit Camp, kill the Goblins, find the a quest chest and grab the fishing rod.
3. You return the fishing rod to the NPC.

Finding the fishing rod in a quest chest sometimes changes to "One of the goblins drops the fishing rod" or something similar but this does not make the quest any different.

Why is this bad?
Well, IF you went to the Goblin Bandit Camp WITHOUT the quest, you would experience the same thing. The goblins spawn on the map, the chest is still there, (though it might be behind a quest door) but NOTHING new or exciting happens on this quest.

Good Goblin Bandits Stole My Fishing Rod Quest:

1. Get the quest from the NPC (Hi, Mission, Yes) default tibia quest accepting. (This can change, but doesn't need to)
2. You go to the Goblin Bandit Camp, and when you enter the camp, something NEW happens! Maybe a boss spawns, or you are ambushed by a group of harder-looking bandits, or you fall into a trap and have to fight your way out. At the end getting the fishing rod.
3. You return the fishing rod to the NPC.

Why is this good?
It REWARDS players with NEW AND EXCITING CONTENT in their quests. Plus! It does one thing NEEDED for personal scripted events, it forces the player to go where you want them to. If you have the quest "Go to Goblin Bandit Camp" then you KNOW where they are going, and you can script fun and new events that will happen on their way there, or once they get there. But it wont happen EVERY time they go there. Just when on this quest.

And to go back to the topic of Large Worlds and Exploring.
I only hope more designers will learn how to make quests that ADD to their MMOs, rather than just force players to experience the same thing over and over again, and this will make your world bigger and more fun to explore.

 

[Karain]

There is no shortage of ideas for epic personal quests rich in dialogues and lore, it's only a matter of how to create an efficient system to manage it all without having to go through pain-staking edits each time a new quest is added ^^

 

[Flatlander]

There is no shortage of ideas for epic personal quests rich in dialogues and lore, it's only a matter of how to create an efficient system to manage it all without having to go through pain-staking edits each time a new quest is added ^^

What do you mean by pain-staking edits? If I may ask.

 

[Karain]

What do you mean by pain-staking edits? If I may ask.

I mean if you didn't design a flexible system for complicated quests from the start, you'll have to cram your new code inside your script, not quite sure how to put it in better words.

Imagine the difference between a messy and a tidy luggage bag for example.

 

[owned]

Something like described above by flatlander wouldn't be difficult to add at all. That's actually something really easy to add it without much work at all.

 

[Flatlander]

Something like described above by flatlander wouldn't be difficult to add at all. That's actually something really easy to add it without much work at all.

Well that isn't the issue, You could put more or less effort in.

You COULD make one script for quests and just change variables.

MonsterSpawner = {
["Monster 1"] = {location = {x=1, y=1,z=1}, count = 1, triggerLocation = {x=1,y=1,z=1}, triggerArea = 5},
}

Then just put all the monsters at which locations and how many and where the player needs to be and how close before a monster spawns.
Fine, that would be easy you could make a hundred quests a day using the above method, BUT it WOULD get boring. As soon as you make a SYSTEM that is constrained by specific Variables you lose any possible excitement for Veteran Players.

To make a good server, it requires work. To make ONE great quest, it takes time. to make ONE great quest SYSTEM it takes time. Your server should have BOTH multiple quest systems AND multiple unique quests.

For example we have the above system that spawns new monsters during a quest. Well you could also have one that pulls you into the "Dark World".

So it might configure like this:

DarkWorldTeleport= {
["Quest 1] = {darkworldlocation = {x=1, y=1,z=1}, triggerLocation = {x=1,y=1,z=1}, triggerArea = 5},
}

When getting within the area of the trigger location above you'd be teleport to the dark world location specified ONLY when on that quest. Then you can make a series of dark world quests. BUT! using the above system, after doing 2 or 3 dark world quests, every player will know what they are and they will no longer be exciting.

So you ALSO need UNIQUE quests that you make from start to finish. Maybe you defend a town from demons, then chase them into their portal, and go into another dimension, and kill a demon god, then angels come and ask for your help in the demon war, and take you to a heaven battlefield where you have to help defeat the demon army attacking heaven.

THAT sounds interesting, and I Just made that up in 5 seconds, takes longer to script, and make all the npcs, and the map, and bug test it, and think up the rewards. BUT it would be fun! And the POINT of making a game, is to make it as fun as possible for as long as possible.

 

[owned]

Well that isn't the issue, You could put more or less effort in.

You COULD make one script for quests and just change variables.

MonsterSpawner = {
["Monster 1"] = {location = {x=1, y=1,z=1}, count = 1, triggerLocation = {x=1,y=1,z=1}, triggerArea = 5},
}

Then just put all the monsters at which locations and how many and where the player needs to be and how close before a monster spawns.
Fine, that would be easy you could make a hundred quests a day using the above method, BUT it WOULD get boring. As soon as you make a SYSTEM that is constrained by specific Variables you lose any possible excitement for Veteran Players.

To make a good server, it requires work. To make ONE great quest, it takes time. to make ONE great quest SYSTEM it takes time. Your server should have BOTH multiple quest systems AND multiple unique quests.

For example we have the above system that spawns new monsters during a quest. Well you could also have one that pulls you into the "Dark World".

So it might configure like this:

DarkWorldTeleport= {
["Quest 1] = {darkworldlocation = {x=1, y=1,z=1}, triggerLocation = {x=1,y=1,z=1}, triggerArea = 5},
}

When getting within the area of the trigger location above you'd be teleport to the dark world location specified ONLY when on that quest. Then you can make a series of dark world quests. BUT! using the above system, after doing 2 or 3 dark world quests, every player will know what they are and they will no longer be exciting.

So you ALSO need UNIQUE quests that you make from start to finish. Maybe you defend a town from demons, then chase them into their portal, and go into another dimension, and kill a demon god, then angels come and ask for your help in the demon war, and take you to a heaven battlefield where you have to help defeat the demon army attacking heaven.

THAT sounds interesting, and I Just made that up in 5 seconds, takes longer to script, and make all the npcs, and the map, and bug test it, and think up the rewards. BUT it would be fun! And the POINT of making a game, is to make it as fun as possible for as long as possible.

Does sound like quite a good idea.

 

[Flatlander]

Does sound like quite a good idea.

It isn't really a new idea or anything. I am just suggesting that people work on their servers. Rather than doing the bare minimum.

To me it's just logic. The harder you work and the more time you put into something, the better it CAN be.

 

[MadMOOK]

I always get inspired when @Flatlander posts on threads like these xD

 

[owned]

It isn't really a new idea or anything. I am just suggesting that people work on their servers. Rather than doing the bare minimum.

To me it's just logic. The harder you work and the more time you put into something, the better it CAN be.

This is true, but some circumstances, it's not better. Many servers have put in a ridiculous amount of work into a server, in which if this was a perfect world, would succeed, but it's not. Many have failed.

 

[Flatlander]

This is true, but some circumstances, it's not better. Many servers have put in a ridiculous amount of work into a server, in which if this was a perfect world, would succeed, but it's not. Many have failed.

I completely agree.

For example I think DeathZot is a piece of crap. Sure Xagulz puts an insane amount of time and effort into it, but just because you make something and work on it doesn't make it good.
**EDIT**
DeathZot was not a bad idea, and it has MANY good ideas, but it is obvious the creator doesn't play his own server, and simply throws in any good idea he thinks of. Whether or not it will work inside of DeathZot. (Xagulz is a good friend, a insanely good scripter, and developer. I simply think he throws every idea he can into each project. He thinks of "What do I think PLAYERS want" rather than "What works and is the most fun".)
**/END OF EDIT\**
A real world example is, you could make a perfect replica of the Statue of Liberty, but you make it using human feces, at the end of the day it will still be a giant piece of shit, no matter how long you work on it.

That is one of the biggest problems for a developer. You can't just make content. You can't even JUST make GOOD content because two GREAT ideas may not work well together. You have to first think of an idea, create it, THEN you have to PLAY it (which tons of game-makers these days do not do) and make sure it is fun. If it isn't fun, if you don't like your OWN game, then delete the idea and try again.

I simply don't respect any game developer that isn't addicted to their own game. If you don't like it, then how can you expect someone else to enjoy it.

 

[owned]

I completely agree.

For example I think DeathZot is a piece of crap. Sure Xagulz puts an insane amount of time and effort into it, but just because you make something and work on it doesn't make it good.
**EDIT**
DeathZot was not a bad idea, and it has MANY good ideas, but it is obvious the creator doesn't play his own server, and simply throws in any good idea he thinks of. Whether or not it will work inside of DeathZot. (Xagulz is a good friend, a insanely good scripter, and developer. I simply think he throws every idea he can into each project. He thinks of "What do I think PLAYERS want" rather than "What works and is the most fun".)
**/END OF EDIT\**
A real world example is, you could make a perfect replica of the Statue of Liberty, but you make it using human feces, at the end of the day it will still be a giant piece of shit, no matter how long you work on it.

That is one of the biggest problems for a developer. You can't just make content. You can't even JUST make GOOD content because two GREAT ideas may not work well together. You have to first think of an idea, create it, THEN you have to PLAY it (which tons of game-makers these days do not do) and make sure it is fun. If it isn't fun, if you don't like your OWN game, then delete the idea and try again.

I simply don't respect any game developer that isn't addicted to their own game. If you don't like it, then how can you expect someone else to enjoy it.

I agree 100%. If Xagul actually played his own server in the beginning, seen what was going on made changes accordingly, his server would be much more successful. Yet i do still find the server to be completely pointless and boring as hell which is why practically every high level on there is quitting.

 

[Flatlander]

I agree 100%. If Xagul actually played his own server in the beginning, seen what was going on made changes accordingly, his server would be much more successful. Yet i do still find the server to be completely pointless and boring as hell which is why practically every high level on there is quitting.

Every game is pointless. The only thing that makes Tibia a good game is community, if your OT makes it so you never interract with other players (Such as everyone bots, or stays in their house doing keys) then it is basically a single player game. And as a single player game, you need AMAZING gameplay and storyline to keep it fun, and I have YET to see an MMO that has that.

 

[Karain]

Flatlander, i really appreciate your input. They are very helpful. I will provide you a tour in the development stage after i create a working " proof of concept " for my ideas, if you don't mind of course.

 

[Flatlander]

Flatlander, i really appreciate your input. They are very helpful. I will provide you a tour in the development stage after i create a working " proof of concept " for my ideas, if you don't mind of course.

Just stating my opinions . I am a hypocrite because I have yet to make a great Custom RPG Server that is successful.

I'm pretty sure if I ever completed a project people would like it, I just skip around too much. But without success of my own I am just a blundering idiot telling other people what to do haha.

 

[Karain]

Just stating my opinions . I am a hypocrite because I have yet to make a great Custom RPG Server that is successful.

I'm pretty sure if I ever completed a project people would like it, I just skip around too much. But without success of my own I am just a blundering idiot telling other people what to do haha.

Psh, you're belittling yourself too much you're full of ideas with a small attention span, just like me

 

[Flatlander]

I am full of ideas. Tons of people are. But if you don't bring your ideas to life then it is the same as not having them in the first place lol.

 

[Eldin]

I want to believe that exploring is loved, however, it has to be done right and interesting, not a simple hunting ground that has been seen over and over again.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.