Max number of vocations to not overwhelm a new player

[Deleted member 49793]

Hi guys,
This is a poll regarding number of classes fit for a good unique custom server
The reason I post this is i've seen servers with like 20+ classes and despite that being a cool and fun idea I find it's too overwhelming for new players to bite into.
What do you guys feel is a max number of custom classes to not overwhelm new players?
Thanks for your input

 

[whitevo]

I chose 5-6.

The number of vocations you have, times numbers and features more, would 1 vocation player have to learn about other players who play that vocation.
And I think more than 6 would be overhelming.

I am using 4 in my server - because players have so many ways to play differently in my serv(items, talent tree skillpoint system)

 

[J.Dre]

4 vocations (with promotions), and then multiple sub-classes.

 

[Deleted member 49793]

4 vocations (with promotions), and then multiple sub-classes.

I feel like thats more complicated though. Having sub classes. No? What do you think?

 

[J.Dre]

I feel like thats more complicated though. Having sub classes. No? What do you think?

Depends on the content. You may make it play out quite nicely, or you may overwhelm players.

The differences should not be so drastic. That's where people make mistakes. You have to understand the difference between a vocation and a sub-class (or class).

 

[owned]

Making vocations isn't overwhelming, it's actually great to have a variety of choices. It's only when people start to complicate vocations that people get overwhelmed. If you make 20 vocations that are straight forward, players know what they are, the spells they have, the items they use and that's it then there's no problem. It is when you start adding sub classes and all kinds of other things that sounds great and unique, but just aren't what players want. Players don't like to make decisions like that, they want the decision made for them.

 

[Deleted member 49793]

Making vocations isn't overwhelming, it's actually great to have a variety of choices. It's only when people start to complicate vocations that people get overwhelmed. If you make 20 vocations that are straight forward, players know what they are, the spells they have, the items they use and that's it then there's no problem. It is when you start adding sub classes and all kinds of other things that sounds great and unique, but just aren't what players want. Players don't like to make decisions like that, they want the decision made for them.

So what do you think is better, 10 vocations, or 5 vocations that at level lets say 50 can pick between one of two subclasses?

 

[owned]

So what do you think is better, 10 vocations, or 5 vocations that at level lets say 50 can pick between one of two subclasses?

Well, put it this way. I've never seen a server with sub-classes that's been even slightly successful. I mean maybe they were doing it wrong though, who knows.

 

[J.Dre]

That's because they don't do it properly, lol.

WoW, GW2, etc. all have classes. Some of the most popular games in the world have classes.

Honestly, I don't recommend using classes straight up. It's complicated. You may want to add them with updates, and slowly transition players into them.

 

[owned]

That's because they don't do it properly, lol.

World of Warcraft, GW2, etc. all have classes. Some of the most popular games in the world have classes.

Those games are also a lot more customized in terms of design and gameplay. When it comes down to choosing a game, and world of warcraft has the best gameplay aside from classes, as well as great graphics what other options really compare? Whereas there's hundreds of servers made that are all alike, but one has you choose classes. I'm willing to bet games like World of Warcraft aren't popular because of a class system.

 

[J.Dre]

Those games are also a lot more customized in terms of design and gameplay. When it comes down to choosing a game, and world of warcraft has the best gameplay aside from classes, as well as great graphics what other options really compare? Whereas there's hundreds of servers made that are all alike, but one has you choose classes. I'm willing to bet games like World of Warcraft are popular because of a class system.

That's my point. If done properly, the possibilities are endless, and better than only 4 vocations, especially long-term.

I'm not recommending you make like 12 sub-classes, 8 races, 4 professions each. That's WAY too complicated for OT. There's simply not enough content to make that work. If you want to introduce classes, you should start very small and gradually work up to something as you develop content.

 

[Zasranets]

Like owned said, it's all about simplicity. Let's be real here, there are a lot people who are noobs at Tibia. The majority of players will get overwhelmed if things are to complicated which will cause them to leave the server.
With that said it all depends on how your make your vocations. The thing I don't like about having so many vocations is that it's much harder to balance. You can go to any server you want that has more than 4 vocations and I can guarantee you that if you ask players they will tell you that X class is overpowered and or X class is under-powered. Even servers with 4 vocations are still unbalanced, and no one likes unbalanced servers. So honestly, it all just depends on how well made and thought through the vocations are.

My personal preference is 4 minimum or 6 max for vocations.
What I really liked was Ascalon's set up. You had 3 basic vocations (warrior, mage, archer) and then once you hit a certain level each of those branched into 2 vocations.
I felt like it was simple because all you had to think about was if you want to play a mage type class, an melee, or a ranged. You weren't forced to pick a specific vocation yet.
Then once you're playing you have time to think about what you want to become so you're not rushed into making a choice. You can ask other players who've already promote and see if it's something you'd like.

I personally don't like logging on and seeing like 10 different vocations to pick from because I'll be like "uh... um.. so many choices I have no idea what to play" and then I'll end up wasting a few days trying
to find the right vocation for me. I like it when you build up to something because that way you have an incentive, and something to look forward to.

 

[StreamSide]

4 is the number bro also many subclasses

 

[owned]

That's my point, though. If done properly, the possibilities are endless, and better than only 4 vocations, especially long-term.

I'm not recommending you make like 4 vocations with 12 sub-classes that have 8 races or professions each, lol. That's WAY too complicated for OT.

Well, it's hard to see your point when realistically nobody at this point in time clearly knows how to do it properly. When something fails time and time again, who wants to be that one person who works on a system hoping that they finally figured out the proper way to do it because then you're just playing the lottery,

 

[J.Dre]

Well, it's hard to see your point when realistically nobody at this point in time clearly knows how to do it properly. When something fails time and time again, who wants to be that one person who works on a system hoping that they finally figured out the proper way to do it because then you're just playing the lottery,

I definitely wouldn't recommend it. Not unless you had a team of developers making new content.

To be honest, I think CipSoft could pull it off with Tibia, but it's likely not worth the effort. Every sub-class, profession, race, etc. introduces a new string of content. Considering they haven't surpassed their maximum online player count since 2007, it definitely isn't in their best interest.

 

[Deleted member 49793]

Like owned said, it's all about simplicity. Let's be real here, there are a lot people who are noobs at Tibia. The majority of players will get overwhelmed if things are to complicated which will cause them to leave the server.
With that said it all depends on how your make your vocations. The thing I don't like about having so many vocations is that it's much harder to balance. You can go to any server you want that has more than 4 vocations and I can guarantee you that if you ask players they will tell you that X class is overpowered and or X class is under-powered. Even servers with 4 vocations are still unbalanced, and no one likes unbalanced servers. So honestly, it all just depends on how well made and thought through the vocations are.

My personal preference is 4 minimum or 6 max for vocations.
What I really liked was Ascalon's set up. You had 3 basic vocations (warrior, mage, archer) and then once you hit a certain level each of those branched into 2 vocations.
I felt like it was simple because all you had to think about was if you want to play a mage type class, an melee, or a ranged. You weren't forced to pick a specific vocation yet.
Then once you're playing you have time to think about what you want to become so you're not rushed into making a choice. You can ask other players who've already promote and see if it's something you'd like.

I personally don't like logging on and seeing like 10 different vocations to pick from because I'll be like "uh... um.. so many choices I have no idea what to play" and then I'll end up wasting a few days trying
to find the right vocation for me. I like it when you build up to something because that way you have an incentive, and something to look forward to.

Great post, very informative thank you.

 

[J.Dre]

I'm going to vote for 4 vocations. That's what Tibia was made for, and that's what OpenTibia is based on. Keep it simple and real.

This obviously includes promotions.

 

[kamilcioo]

4 vocations and a new one once in 3 month.

 

[jo3bingham]

The real issue with having more than 4 vocations is keeping them all balanced. Just keep that in mind.

 

[Deleted member 49793]

The real issue with having more than 4 vocations is keeping them all balanced. Just keep that in mind.

Very true