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Understanding a Developers Mindsight

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 49793
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Deleted member 49793

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Hey guys, this post is regarding donations and the use of it in OT’s.

I write this post after 6 years of knowing, being a part of, and interacting with the OT community. Some of you, as possible owners, or players who have a good insight, know that hosting nowadays isn’t cheap. Can we all first appreciate that though for a second? No more insanely laggy often kicking home-hosted OT’s from back in the day. Further more, if any of you don’t know, Otservlist (The really only source of advertising an OT, where if you want to get an OT on the top 20 *Really only what most people look at when picking an OT* ) Is exceptionally expensive. No not comparison to hosting (Which can be about $75-$125 a month easily). To name a couple of costs.. 90 euros/DAY countdown, 100 euros for banner add, 55 euros for 125x125 box add.

But Sir Knighter!!! Not everyone has to purchase these! Yes, you are correct. But nowadays, if you want a large launch, (I’m talking 100-150 players) they are required, atleast 180 euros + 20 for coins (200 euros for 2 days of advertising). Then it’s up to a good fun stable server to keep those players. But you WILL NOT build a server with nothing on otservlist. Maybe a server with 40 players. But the issue with that is rarely that will cover hosting costs…

The reason I write this Is the absolutely joke of the way many people look at donations. They see it as a toxic thing, even if the donations are balance, players who don’t donate, still hate seeing them. Now I want to say I understand that… I myself always donate to an OT I plan to play more than a day. This isn’t so much to get the rewards, but to thank the owner the entertainment they offered, as I consider my gaming entertainment around $2 an hour. Now listen this isn’t a post to tell people they need to donate otherwise they’re pieces of shit. Not at all… for some, they cant afford to donate, they have too many expenses in real life and live day to day with their budget, big reason they play a game that can be run on a simple computer and free. My reason for this post is to help these players who do get angry about donations understand why we as developers do them.

This is not an EXCUSE FOR ANY OWNER. There are many servers out there who are clearly out to make money, I won’t list them but everyone in the community knows them. As much as I want to say these servers are the exception, they aren’t.. but you need to understand that servers do donations out of a necessity. I have a good job in real life, granted I live on a tight budget as I have many expenses and ontop of that tuition costs etc. I do not look to make any profits off my server (To be launched within the month) I don’t need to make money off a passion of mine. To be honest sometimes I feel bad for the devs of TFS. For how much money some people make off their development with a download and run. But that’s another post… My point is. Players need to understand not all developers are here to just make a profit and run, many are here to try and build memories for you, something you and friends can look back on in 5 years and be like LOL remember that server!? The stupid shit we did on there. I know I have buddies who we still look back on tibia memories and laugh, pulling gs’s to venore stairs etc. To sum.. understand why we MUST do donations, understand why we can’t just do “a couple cosmetic things” as this won’t pay the bills. Understand that many of us have a LOVE for making you guys content and a fun server, and we just want to pay the bills and not lose money for the hours we put into this. And remember, good custom projects usually have about 400-500 hours put into them (Some many more) Download and runs many times less than 10 hours. Remember this when you are donating, remember this when you are feeding the addiction of the opening and restarting of download and runs.

Hope this explains a bit of the insight of a hoster here for a passion, not to make a profit.


TL;DR - No. Read it you lazy bitches
 
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The problem isn't just the OT Community, it is the gaming community as a whole.

Any time someone sees a company asking for money for ANY reason, they call it a "Cash Grab".
  • Free games with DLC is not a cash grab.
  • Paid games with DLC is not a cash grab.
  • Subscription games is not a cash grab.
  • Subscription games with DLC is not a cash grab.
  • OT Servers with donations is not a cash grab.
  • OT Servers with VIP subscription is not a cash grab.
Making games costs money. Every developer has to plan a business model of how they will cover the cost of making and supporting their game.

Games have changed since the old days. It used to be that you'd pay one time, get your game, and it would NEVER change.
No Updates. No Patches. No expansions. Nothing new EVER unless they make a Part 2.

THEN PC Games had "expansion packs" come out, and "patches" to fix existing bugs and balance issues. But sadly, shortly after games were released, they were abandoned by the developers, because they couldn't afford to pay people to patch games that were already sold and were not generating any new revenue.

Then, two amazing ideas happened.
  1. DLC (Downloadable content) was created. Allowing developers the ability to add new content to the game, and still make money even after it was released! And, even better, the better the DLC Content, the more they would sell! So it encourages developers to make the most amazing stuff possible!
  2. Subscription Services were created. Allowing developers of a game access to CONSTANT income allowing them financial security! This encouraged the developers to keep the game bug-free, balanced, and constantly add new content to keep it's subscribers!
With DLC and Subscriptions, gamers can now have amazing games that receive regular updates to fix bugs, balancing issues, and add new content!

But now our culture has forgotten the old days of shitty games, riddled with bugs, balance issues, and no developer support. Now all they do is complain about DLC and other ways developers extend the life of their games as being "Cash Grabs".

And even dumber, now FREE GAMES that have DLC or optional subscription are seen as "Cash Grabs".
Its a fucking free game you lunatic. You don't have to pay unless you want to. And if you WANT the DLC or optional subscription bonuses, but you don't want to pay for it. Then go kill yourself, because we do not need you on this planet anymore.
 
Flatlander said:
The problem isn't just the OT Community, it is the gaming community as a whole.

Any time someone sees a company asking for money for ANY reason, they call it a "Cash Grab".
  • Free games with DLC is not a cash grab.
  • Paid games with DLC is not a cash grab.
  • Subscription games is not a cash grab.
  • Subscription games with DLC is not a cash grab.
  • OT Servers with donations is not a cash grab.
  • OT Servers with VIP subscription is not a cash grab.
Making games costs money. Every developer has to plan a business model of how they will cover the cost of making and supporting their game.

Games have changed since the old days. It used to be that you'd pay one time, get your game, and it would NEVER change.
No Updates. No Patches. No expansions. Nothing new EVER unless they make a Part 2.

THEN PC Games had "expansion packs" come out, and "patches" to fix existing bugs and balance issues. But sadly, shortly after games were released, they were abandoned by the developers, because they couldn't afford to pay people to patch games that were already sold and were not generating any new revenue.

Then, two amazing ideas happened.
  1. DLC (Downloadable content) was created. Allowing developers the ability to add new content to the game, and still make money even after it was released! And, even better, the better the DLC Content, the more they would sell! So it encourages developers to make the most amazing stuff possible!
  2. Subscription Services were created. Allowing developers of a game access to CONSTANT income allowing them financial security! This encouraged the developers to keep the game bug-free, balanced, and constantly add new content to keep it's subscribers!
With DLC and Subscriptions, gamers can now have amazing games that receive regular updates to fix bugs, balancing issues, and add new content!

But now our culture has forgotten the old days of shitty games, riddled with bugs, balance issues, and no developer support. Now all they do is complain about DLC and other ways developers extend the life of their games as being "Cash Grabs".

And even dumber, now FREE GAMES that have DLC or optional subscription are seen as "Cash Grabs".
Its a fucking free game you lunatic. You don't have to pay unless you want to. And if you WANT the DLC or optional subscription bonuses, but you don't want to pay for it. Then go kill yourself, because we do not need you on this planet anymore.
Click to expand...

A little darker version of what I meant, but agree none the less
 
I have adressed this topic in several threads of my own, but you guys already came to the right conclusion.
It's really sad to see the community has turned into this :(
 
Damon said:
I have adressed this topic in several threads of my own, but you guys already came to the right conclusion.
It's really sad to see the community has turned into this :(
Click to expand...

Yes, I based one of my points off one of your old posts, regarding the restarting of servers for money
 
There are very few people whom honestly fit your description of, "doing this passionately and not for money."

Good write-up (rant?) but I can't agree. Not in general, for all of Open Tibia, even though I wish I could. :( My experience has shown me otherwise. Greed is insatiable for the majority.
 
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J.Dre said:
There are very few people whom honestly fit your description of, "doing this passionately and not for money."

Good write-up (rant?) but I can't agree. Not in general, for all of Open Tibia, even though I wish I could. :( My experience has shown me otherwise. Greed is insatiable for the majority.
Click to expand...

Not so much rant, more for otlanders to understand better
 
Going to bump this one time, and only once. Let a last amount of people get a read if they want.
 
I read it.

I also read the TL;DR version, which was almost as informative. :p

I believe that there is a large portion of people who really do make servers with donations as a cash grab. Particularly the ones that do NOT provide continuous updates, patches and balancing, or the ones that reset regularly so that people will re-donate. It's easier to start your community from scratch with fresh blood than to grow an existing one when looking to get donations. I believe that with a passion for development and community building, there should be no need for excessive profit, and much money earned should be returned into the server, as any business should operate. The reason I offer free scripting and release my own systems to the public is because I know what it takes to build a game. My background and schooling is video game design and development and it's a huge process planning and building a custom project in OT let alone in a game of its own origin. If people can access free resources to help fuel a custom project that is designed to provide long-term, not-for-profit enjoyment and to build a strong community, then it takes a huge weight off the developer both financially and physically.

This is why I joined the ArchLight team at no cost. Sir Knighter did in fact try to hire me on for money, but I declined for the above reasons. If a person is unwilling to work for free, that's understandable. If you're good at something, never do it for free, right? That's fine. But I do believe that if more people offered free scripting, mapping, spriting, balancing, etc. services, there would be a larger portion of developers willing to put in the time to create the respectable, long-term servers that people seem to always ask for but never receive.
 
RazorBlade said:
I read it.

I also read the TL;DR version, which was almost as informative. :p

I believe that there is a large portion of people who really do make servers with donations as a cash grab. Particularly the ones that do NOT provide continuous updates, patches and balancing, or the ones that reset regularly so that people will re-donate. It's easier to start your community from scratch with fresh blood than to grow an existing one when looking to get donations. I believe that with a passion for development and community building, there should be no need for excessive profit, and much money earned should be returned into the server, as any business should operate. The reason I offer free scripting and release my own systems to the public is because I know what it takes to build a game. My background and schooling is video game design and development and it's a huge process planning and building a custom project in OT let alone in a game of its own origin. If people can access free resources to help fuel a custom project that is designed to provide long-term, not-for-profit enjoyment and to build a strong community, then it takes a huge weight off the developer both financially and physically.

This is why I joined the ArchLight team at no cost. Sir Knighter did in fact try to hire me on for money, but I declined for the above reasons. If a person is unwilling to work for free, that's understandable. If you're good at something, never do it for free, right? That's fine. But I do believe that if more people offered free scripting, mapping, spriting, balancing, etc. services, there would be a larger portion of developers willing to put in the time to create the respectable, long-term servers that people seem to always ask for but never receive.
Click to expand...

People like Razor are why the custom community still exists.
 
RazorBlade said:
But I do believe that if more people offered free scripting, mapping, spriting, balancing, etc. services, there would be a larger portion of developers willing to put in the time to create the respectable, long-term servers that people seem to always ask for but never receive.
Click to expand...
I don't offer free scripting, because I use that time to make respectable, long-term server.
I don't release amazing scripts, what I complete, because I want my game to be unique.

"I expect the attack, hate me or love me, we can make the scene turn ugly, trust me."
 
RazorBlade said:
I read it.

I also read the TL;DR version, which was almost as informative. :p

I believe that there is a large portion of people who really do make servers with donations as a cash grab. Particularly the ones that do NOT provide continuous updates, patches and balancing, or the ones that reset regularly so that people will re-donate. It's easier to start your community from scratch with fresh blood than to grow an existing one when looking to get donations. I believe that with a passion for development and community building, there should be no need for excessive profit, and much money earned should be returned into the server, as any business should operate. The reason I offer free scripting and release my own systems to the public is because I know what it takes to build a game. My background and schooling is video game design and development and it's a huge process planning and building a custom project in OT let alone in a game of its own origin. If people can access free resources to help fuel a custom project that is designed to provide long-term, not-for-profit enjoyment and to build a strong community, then it takes a huge weight off the developer both financially and physically.

This is why I joined the ArchLight team at no cost. Sir Knighter did in fact try to hire me on for money, but I declined for the above reasons. If a person is unwilling to work for free, that's understandable. If you're good at something, never do it for free, right? That's fine. But I do believe that if more people offered free scripting, mapping, spriting, balancing, etc. services, there would be a larger portion of developers willing to put in the time to create the respectable, long-term servers that people seem to always ask for but never receive.
Click to expand...

I typed a long response, but I deleted it because I don't want to force people to read so much.

Basically, the success of a server is determined by how many people are online. When a server only has a few players, or no players, it is a failure.

NO ONE IS CLOSING DOWN SUCCESSFUL SERVERS. (Except me once, with the original Species. My bad?)
Players Vote by logging into your server. Every day a player logs in, that is a vote saying "Out of all Games available to me, today I choose yours."
If you do not get enough players, or enough money, your server closes down. Meaning you lost to ALL of the other available games.

So when you say players ask for long-term servers but never receive them. They receive them ALL the time, they would just rather play something else.
What people really want, is a game that is better than every other game they have access to. Which might I add, isn't very fucking easy to make.

Now if OT Server Developers were making Livable Wages and could dedicate more time to making quality Servers. Then you'd see an increase in Quality OT Servers. But since anyone who makes money, or asks for donations, or is successful in any way is labeled as "Cash Grabbing" or being a money whore. You have to live with your shitty free-produced OT Servers.
 
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Flatlander said:
I typed a long response, but I deleted it because I don't want to force people to read so much.

Basically, the success of a server is determined by how many people are online. When a server only has a few players, or no players, it is a failure.

NO ONE IS CLOSING DOWN SUCCESSFUL SERVERS. (Except me once, with the original Species. My bad?)
Players Vote by logging into your server. Every day a player logs in, that is a vote saying "Out of all Games available to me, today I choose yours."
If you do not get enough players, or enough money, your server closes down. Meaning you lost to ALL of the other available games.

So when you say players ask for long-term servers but never receive them. They receive them ALL the time, they would just rather play something else.
What people really want, is a game that is better than every other game they have access to. Which might I add, isn't very fucking easy to make.

Now if OT Server Developers were making Livable Wages and could dedicate more time to making quality Servers. Then you'd see an increase in Quality OT Servers. But since anyone who makes money, or asks for donations, or is successful in any way is labeled as "Cash Grabbing" or being a money whore. You have to live with your shitty free-produced OT Servers.
Click to expand...
I do agree with you, and I probably would have been cool with reading the long version too.

offtopic
I was totally thrown off cause there was a bug running around in your signature and then it flew at me cause it was real
 
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