Alternatives to the skull system

[Sportacus]

I'd like to first start off by saying that the skull system was one of the key reasons why I stopped playing real tibia as seriously as I did before.

While alpha testing my server, which is PVP-E, one player was pretty upset that another player killed him repeatedly, and talks about adding in the skull system were discussed.

I hate the skull system as it puts a flag on a player that tells other people "i'm a free kill, come kill me". The skull stays on a player well after he has killed another player.

The skull system also, in a way, allows players to have a "status" of pking on them, that they can show off. In this sense, some players are incentivized by having a white, red, or black skull next to their character. This acts as a reason for some to pk even more then. This is elevated even further by players who are a lot more powerful than others, and feel like they have a "unkillable" status, so having a skull means nothing negative to them, just something to show off.

Furthermore, with red and black skulls, the skull system incentivizes players to attack the PKer in the wrong ways.. they are guaranteed that the red/black skull will drop all of their equipment if they die. This motivates players to make sure red/skull players can not play, to some extents.

I think that in game if a player wants to stop power abuse, they should want to do it of their own will, not that they are -guaranteed- that the pker will lose all of their stuff. Though, I do like the idea that players drop equipment when they die, I will never want to get rid of that, I just don't like TELLING other players how much stuff they will drop.


Also, without skulls, players can, to an extent, secretly kill other players, and not have a marker broadcasting to all that they did PK.
This also allows situations where players can lie to other players to get them to help kill another player, by saying someone was attacking them, when they have not, this is another game play mechanic.. it's known as lying.

With skulls in, you ALWAYS know if a player attacked someone or not, which to me makes the game too binary, and does away with interesting mechanics such as lying.




So, that is why I am against using the skull system... BUT, in some form, I must make PKing a negative thing, to some extents, and to curb power abuse.

My proposal for this is to add in a Murder/Mass Murder system and town guards.

For those that have played Ultima, know this system, but of course it is modified a bit.

The Murder System works as follows.


It still uses frags to count how many people you have killed.

You receive a frag no matter who you kill, as long as you were involved with killing them. The only exceptions here is if you are acting in self-defense(they hit you first), you are in a party(self-defense acts are extended to party members), you are at guild war with the player, or a pvp special event.

When you reach a certain amount of frags, lets use for example, 5 frags, you get marked as a "murderer". Other players can not see this, but you receive penalties.

Penalties would include:

Not being able to trade with most NPCs
Not being able to use boats to travel
Not being able to call town guards to help you while under attack
You no longer give frags to other players when you die in PVP to them


If you continue your murderous rampage, and reach, for example, 10 frags, you will be marked as a "serial murderer".

Penalties would include:

All of those for murderer

Extended frag removal time


And for those that continue to systemically remove every thing you dislike around you, and reach, say, 20 frags, you will be marked as a "mass murderer".

Penalties would include:

All of those for murderer and serial murder
You now drop all of your equipment when you die.
You spawn inside of a jail cell in the capitals jail, and stay there for a time or you escape.


Lastly, if you have no-consideration left for human life and want to be the only human left, and reach 30 frags, you will be marked as "genocidal bastard(or bitch, gender depending)."

Penalties would include:

All of the other penalties
When you die, you revive back with only 5% of your max health and mana.
Preist/Clergy stop talking to you all togather.
Only the evilest of NPCs will do business with you





Checking your frags would work differently.

When you have a frag, and you go to check it, you will get the message that says "I must consider my sins".

To find out your time left on frags, you must visit a priest or clergy member, and for a fee, they will tell you how much more time you have left till you lose all of your frags.


For an even more expensive fee, a clergy member will remove some frag time away, but this is limited to once per day, and applies to all clergy members.



Town Guards are NPCs that you can "call for help" if another player is attacking you. This just spawns a guard creature that attacks the hostile player only, and can be killed. There would be a cooldown for how often you would be able to call a guard for help, which I would put at once per hour.



On the subject of no-longer being able to talk to trade with some npcs, there would be some shaddy npcs that will still do business with you. The costs of trading with these npcs would be higher than normal.


The Jail Cell system is simply just a location you spawn in when you have reached mass murder status. There will be npcs that will interact with you in the jail, and you can break out, fight your way out of the jail, or simply wait out the timer. While being in jail, your hometown is set to jail till you break out, or simply just wait it out.

Lastly, I will never "banish" a player for PKing, so that is straight out of consideration.


Well, those are my suggestions for how to make alternatives of the skull system to stop power abusing.


All opinions, and suggestions are welcomed.

 

[Nep12]

<First Comment> Great server everyone its getting better and better as we speak day by day daily updates and is really unique Loveing it so far.

 

[Xagul]

So basically, remove the skull system as we know it and use the skulls as a visual community status emblem of sorts where each skull color represents how genocidal you are. Each skull would have a negative impact on your PvE gameplay (based on how severe the skull is) but none of the skulls (red/black included) would effect equipment loss or pvp damage? If that's what you are getting at I could see that being entertaining until I become super evil genocidal freak and can not talk to npcs as my punishment. Then I mc a lvl 8 and make him buy supplies for me instead and continue killing.

--My Opinion--
I think the best frag system was the old school frag system, lose frags every so often and once u reach your limit u get banned. Simple as that, it combats the repeated killing/mass ueing depots but still allows people to pvp freely. No skulls are needed in this case, just a warning that they are about to get banned if they keep holding down their ue in the middle of 20 noobs This system was removed because CIP felt it was to harsh of a punishment. I also feel like after frag limit increasing the damage they take in pvp might be a viable option, still remove item loss/AoE spell limitations with red/black skull but keep the pvp damage increase. Maybe even adding it to red skull at a 25% and black being 50%.
I am not sure if this is the response you are looking for but I have to be honest, the system you speak of is basically a reputation faction system that disables npcs for an individual. While this works in a game like WoW where items are bind on pickup, I don't think its going to work out so well in a game like tibia with freely tradable items and multi-clienting users.

 

[Eldin]

You got my support!

 

[soul4soul]

Its a great system except for the jail. Having to wait out the timer or "escape" is a pain and annoying. most players would x-log until they know the time has passed or will afk. which means taking active players away from the server. Instead they should receive a status of "wounded" the gods where able to bring you back to life but it will be some time before you get your full strength. During this time your mode is set to non-pvp and perhaps you only gain 90% experience? This way the player can still be active in the server. Having a non-pvp status would be similar to being in jail b/c there they wouldn't be able to attack anyone, be attacked, or participate in any wars and battles that were taking place when they died.

 

[Sportacus]

Its a great system except for the jail. Having to wait out the timer or "escape" is a pain and annoying. most players would x-log until they know the time has passed or will afk. which means taking active players away from the server. Instead they should receive a status of "wounded" the gods where able to bring you back to life but it will be some time before you get your full strength. During this time your mode is set to non-pvp and perhaps you only gain 90% experience? This way the player can still be active in the server. Having a non-pvp status would be similar to being in jail b/c there they wouldn't be able to attack anyone, be attacked, or participate in any wars and battles that were taking place when they died.

Non-pvp status is almost a reward in my opinion.. I guess this is because it's more specific to my individual server rather than for a "rl tibia copy".

To fill in some gaps I'll explain a few systems first..

One, on my server when you die, you drop equipment, and log back in as a ghost in temple.. as a ghost, you can either wait out a timer (which increases by your level), or just leave the temple, and lose 10% of your exp.

With the jail, in my mind this is almost a "replacement for banishment". You can still do things in jail, and it would be an adventure in itself to escape from it, I doubt many people would wait out the timer unless they actually wanted to do something else.

The jail area may have it's own spawns and quests of it's own, it's not limited to just be a punishment zone, thats too binary, it would feel negative as it's a harsh environment, your access to resources and survival chances would be low in the jail environment, but it wouldn't just be "stand there in a cell". You'd still be playing the game, just in another way.



Becoming non-pvp in a pvp-e server is unacceptable to me, because it allows the player to have safety. They can't attack anyone then, and can't be attacked. If they were to be set to non-pvp, they might as well be banned.


I guess this is the problem of me not explaining the jail system to it's fullest, it wouldn't be just a cell.

But I agree with you, some people will just x-log to wait it out, but.. again, my lack of information about my specific server was small here.. it's a "1x rate" server, with every monster having 4x HP, and every monsters has at least 1 unique attack/property.

So in general, the server is slow paced, and while there will be a lot of pvp, it won't be the only thing occurring on the server, as money is relevant, getting better equipment is a major goal, quests, and just finding new spell scrolls is a major focus.


Though I do thank you for posting! Some ideas to consider, but making them non-pvp is.. a no no in my mind, but maybe reduce exp could be a punishment for having tons of frags

 

[Shadowsong]

Non-pvp status is almost a reward in my opinion.. I guess this is because it's more specific to my individual server rather than for a "rl tibia copy".

To fill in some gaps I'll explain a few systems first..

One, on my server when you die, you drop equipment, and log back in as a ghost in temple.. as a ghost, you can either wait out a timer (which increases by your level), or just leave the temple, and lose 10% of your exp.

With the jail, in my mind this is almost a "replacement for banishment". You can still do things in jail, and it would be an adventure in itself to escape from it, I doubt many people would wait out the timer unless they actually wanted to do something else.

The jail area may have it's own spawns and quests of it's own, it's not limited to just be a punishment zone, thats too binary, it would feel negative as it's a harsh environment, your access to resources and survival chances would be low in the jail environment, but it wouldn't just be "stand there in a cell". You'd still be playing the game, just in another way.



Becoming non-pvp in a pvp-e server is unacceptable to me, because it allows the player to have safety. They can't attack anyone then, and can't be attacked. If they were to be set to non-pvp, they might as well be banned.


I guess this is the problem of me not explaining the jail system to it's fullest, it wouldn't be just a cell.

But I agree with you, some people will just x-log to wait it out, but.. again, my lack of information about my specific server was small here.. it's a "1x rate" server, with every monster having 4x HP, and every monsters has at least 1 unique attack/property.

So in general, the server is slow paced, and while there will be a lot of pvp, it won't be the only thing occurring on the server, as money is relevant, getting better equipment is a major goal, quests, and just finding new spell scrolls is a major focus.


Though I do thank you for posting! Some ideas to consider, but making them non-pvp is.. a no no in my mind, but maybe reduce exp could be a punishment for having tons of frags

How about they can still be attacked, but can not attack others? That way, they're still exposed to the dangers of other players, but have no way to fight back (<- punishment for their massive PKing). This can also include a little backstory connected to the lore as why gods created it like that - because they were afraid that by killing so many people someone would become perceived as a god himself due to his strength, so they decided to paralyze anyone from PKing until they calm down a bit and realize that they're nothing short of a god - or something along those lines...

 

[Sportacus]

How about they can still be attacked, but can not attack others? That way, they're still exposed to the dangers of other players, but have no way to fight back (<- punishment for their massive PKing). This can also include a little backstory connected to the lore as why gods created it like that - because they were afraid that by killing so many people someone would become perceived as a god himself due to his strength, so they decided to paralyze anyone from PKing until they calm down a bit and realize that they're nothing short of a god - or something along those lines...

Hmm, I like the idea, and even more so that you have a background idea for why it would happen.

Honestly, thats the best way to get me excited about an idea, is to give reason for it, and the more story elements you can put into the reasoning for game mechanics the better.

I'd have to look into how to script that, but it wouldn't be all that hard I think.

 

[soul4soul]

Would the player be allowed to defend himself?

I like the jail idea too if the jail was more of an island of criminals. It would be an extra area to explore with a few quests and some minimal and hard hunting. Some NPCs who perhaps could even give hints about hidden treasure. Its main priority is to be a barren land to discourage players from coming back but still have a few things to do to keep them busy. Maybe there could be a few ways to escape the island, bride the ferry man by bring him some sort of jail currency maybe cigars?(there is a sprite for them) in many jails cigarettes are actually used as currency, dig out a tunnel, good behavior could be a small mini quest in a way you can save a mans life. I hope that is not to much for a penalty area.

 

[Red]

Whew, this is a lot to read first thing in the morning afternoon.
I read almost all of the first post. I've got to say, you've got a unique sense to a new "skull system" going on and I like it.
I think the possibility to lose equipment pieces instead of just all of them and the inability to travel/speak with certain NPCs because of your killing status is a great alternative.

Red

 

[Sportacus]

Would the player be allowed to defend himself?

I like the jail idea too if the jail was more of an island of criminals. It would be an extra area to explore with a few quests and some minimal and hard hunting. Some NPCs who perhaps could even give hints about hidden treasure. Its main priority is to be a barren land to discourage players from coming back but still have a few things to do to keep them busy. Maybe there could be a few ways to escape the island, bride the ferry man by bring him some sort of jail currency maybe cigars?(there is a sprite for them) in many jails cigarettes are actually used as currency, dig out a tunnel, good behavior could be a small mini quest in a way you can save a mans life. I hope that is not to much for a penalty area.

Yeah, people would be able to defend themselves (without getting frags).

Hmm, I like the idea of the jail being a offshore jail island, and basically an alternative currency system for things that are typically traded in jail, such as chocolate, bottles, make-shift weapons, porn mags, or cigs like you said.

Giving them something to do on the island is how I'd like to have it. You could also "break into" the island as well, if you'd like to explore the area itself without murdering tons of people. If you broke in you'd simply walk to a guard and then would be put into a cell.

It still would be a penalty as they have all the negative effects of having that many frags, and they are removed from main society to reduce their PAing, untill they break out of the jail, which would be a lengthy process, but a fun one to some extents.



Just a side note, I am not against PAing on any game, it is apart of how Tibia is played and makes it unique, but there has to be limits put on it to so people aren't forced to quit, or be unable to play.

- - - Updated - - -

Whew, this is a lot to read first thing in the morning afternoon.
I read almost all of the first post. I've got to say, you've got a unique sense to a new "skull system" going on and I like it.
I think the possibility to lose equipment pieces instead of just all of them and the inability to travel/speak with certain NPCs because of your killing status is a great alternative.

Red

Yeah.. I have a bit of a problem of typing an awful lot.

I get excited about something and I just don't stop going and going.


I'd really like to set drop % chance on death per slot, just to have that extra control over it, even if I set all the slots to have equal drop % chance, having the ability to control that is important to me. Options are NEVER a bad thing, it lets us have more control over our servers, and as far as open tibia goes, it's best to be able to customize and control every aspect of our game. Not everyone is out to make a real tibia copy, but rather use TFS/Open Tibia to make our own game.