Censorship

[kondra]

Hello,

My website, has been censored.
Take a look: ************
So my question is - having and linking to a website with paid services is illegal now? As I can see there are a lot of users promoting their servers with shop or other paid services, used to (ofc) make money and there's no problem with that. I can't even share stats with otclientv8 users, thanks.

 

[Don Daniello]

OtLand - The Official Rules for OTLand

Although the administrators and moderators of OTLand will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this site, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author. The owners of OTLand will not be held responsible for the content of any message...

otland.net

Rule 11. There's a difference between selling services and resources. You are selling a product here. You must stop mentioning the sale of any software in any materials and websites you want to link to on Otland.

 

[kondra]

OtLand - The Official Rules for OTLand

Although the administrators and moderators of OTLand will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this site, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author. The owners of OTLand will not be held responsible for the content of any message...

otland.net

Rule 11. There's a difference between selling services and resources. You are selling a product here. You must stop mentioning the sale of any software in any materials and websites you want to link to on Otland.

But I am selling ClosedTibia sources /s. But OK, I will only leave link to github.

11. Commercing resources:
It is strictly forbidden to buy or sell OpenTibia resources on OTLand. Advertising websites where you can buy or sell OpenTibia resources is not tolerated either. It is still OK to charge for hosting services, and advertising such services should be done in Jobs board.

I think you're breaking rules, such services should be advertised in Jobs board. Double standards

 

[itoxblade]

otland inventing new rules

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...threads/the-official-rules-for-otland.256173/

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2020
XD

What a joke this forum has become, are you also going to delete all job posts?

 

[Don Daniello]

This rule was enacted in 2013: Moving forward (https://otland.net/threads/moving-forward.198835/)

Just because we haven't acted immediately doesn't make it allowed.

 

[itoxblade]

This rule was enacted in 2013: Moving forward (https://otland.net/threads/moving-forward.198835/)

Just because we haven't acted immediately doesn't make it allowed.

OpenTibia Discord Server

Hello my fellow OTLanders, I am here to inform those who might be interested that we have an OpenTibia Discord server, not related to OTLand and its main idea is to gather people. Yes I know there is an OTLand Discord, but this is completely different, looks different and is run by different...

otland.net

delete this, on this discord it's allowed to sell and buy open tibia things

 

[Addams]

 

[itoxblade]

What did I write about that discord being related to otland? What quality support members we have here!
That discord is used as a marketplace, why can it be advertised and things like kondra's site can't?
There's also tons of threads inside jobs section, where people are asking to buy specific things, and selling ready made systems. Where does the line go for what's allowed? Or it's just a rule meant for specific people?

 

[GhostX]

What did I write about that discord being related to otland? What quality support members we have here!
That discord is used as a marketplace, why can it be advertised and things like kondra's site can't?
There's also tons of threads inside jobs section, where people are asking to buy specific things, and selling ready made systems. Where does the line go for what's allowed? Or it's just a rule meant for specific people?

the OTland discord has nothing to do with the admins or rules of this forum. It is not official, therefore the behaviour that occurs on there is not the behaviour that is tolerated here...

 

[itoxblade]

the OTland discord has nothing to do with the admins or rules of this forum. It is not official, therefore the behaviour that occurs on there is not the behaviour that is tolerated here...

Again bro, it has nothing about being partnered with otland or anything.

On that discord you can openly buy and sell open tibia things, according to this thread and new updated rules yesterday something that links u to a place u can sell and buy open tibia things is not allowed.
There u have listed requests for amount of money, same thing as on kondras website so it should also be blocked or what the difference? Thats why I am asking for some clarity on what we can do

 

[WibbenZ]

Again bro, it has nothing about being partnered with otland or anything.

On that discord you can buy and sell open tibia things, according to this thread and new updated rules yesterday something that links u to a place u can sell and buy open tibia things is not allowed.

Anyone can create an ad on ex ebay, should we censor that URL aswell?
As you said it's not supported by OTLand so what do you think we should do?

The rule was added to that thread recently yes, but it's an old rule that wasen't added to the rule page we had when using VB and we have missed to add other rules after announcing them.

Just like yesterday when I added a rule thread in distros where the main reason is that you have to attach files, we have had that rule for a while but to help new users / people who don't read the news etc we add them either to the global rules or in a board rule thread.

 

[itoxblade]

I got it so rule is only against specific users, can we get any light on what's allowed in the jobs section then? Can we say I will pay $500 for a system and explain how it's going to work? Can people list things they have done in the past, and say they are offering scripting services in exchange for money?

 

[WibbenZ]

I got it so rule is only against specific users, can we get any light on what's allowed in the jobs section then? Can we say I will pay $500 for a system and explain how it's going to work? Can people list things they have done in the past, and say they are offering scripting services in exchange for money?

I can't change your mind unless you are open to other people point of view.
All I can say is that the rules have been here for a while, only diffrence is that we added them to that thread recently.
There are old threads without any moderator edits that can prove that.

Ex
I'm selling / buying a cast system for x usd - not allowed since it's a product you are trying to sell / advertise
I'm looking for someone to write a cast system for me - thats fine since it's a job where you are expected to code it for that user

I'm selling OTC - not allowed, why? Because he is selling a "completed" project.
If you or who ever wants to create a thread advertising that you can work for someone is fine - it's a job.
But writing that you are selling a product is not a job, it's marketing.

We can't control if you get a "customer" asking for a cast system and you send them a product you wrote 1 year ago.
Same as we can't control what is going on in that discord channel.

You can read more about it here; Moving forward (https://otland.net/threads/moving-forward.198835/)

 

[Addams]

What did I write about that discord being related to otland? What quality support members we have here!

This has nothing to do with Support team members quality at all, Support team members are only responsible for Support boards so I was just replying with my point of view.

I thought my 2 screenshots were simple and didn't need any further explanation, as mentioned and explained above we aren't responsible of any sales/scams on Discord but from what I understood you are trying to let us endure every Discord/Facebook/Email sales happening outside OTLand as long as that Email/Discord is linked here before which is impossible to be done.

So all I can do is to advise you to read the above replies/links and re-read the rules trying to understand it correctly instead of this meaningless judging.

Also I won't reply here anymore since I don't like getting involved in such discussions where someone (like you) is trying to force others to accept his wrong point of view (that we only enforce the rules against specific users).

 

[Leo32]

The advertising rules are juxtaposed.

You can advertise services in the jobs board, but you can't sell scripts.
So you can advertise creating a script, but you cant advertise a script you've created unless you give it away for free.

This just attracts shade, as you can play by the rules of the 'word games' and can sell scripts under the table.

Idk if otlands dislike for selling/buying is legal or philosophical.
I don't agree with it philosophically, but compromise - that it's needed to progress and innovate in the quality of scripts that are open and free as-well.
If its a legal thing, then yeah ok I get it.

Either way, its starving the community here and just forces people like me go elsewhere to source code that is typically pay-walled.
There should be an unofficial thread or resource on Discord tbh
These markets exist already and are where all of the code worth using is at.

The friction here it creates for users creating threads that toe the line in 'advertising rule-breaking'/'community accepted paywall' is just extra.

 

[slaw]

Any certain reason you can't sell scripts, but you can hire someone to write a script for you? I never understood that. Double standards? Why OtLand is forbidding something so many users would have made use of? It would bring more users to the forums IMO.

I would also like to sell some scripts for MyAAC as I'm developing it in my spare time and would like to have something from this ocassional job but I'm not allowed to.

Who is with me and thinks that OtLand should change the rules?

 

[Evil Puncker]

the fact is that most users miss making money from otland, but they forgot how cancerous the community turned when we had market place ;(

"We need to start working together to move forward.", @Mark, 2013

 

[Leo32]

the fact is that most users miss making money from otland, but they forgot cancerous the community turned when we had market place ;(

"We need to start working together to move forward.", @Mark, 2013

I agree.
But innovation has been dead since then - pre 2015 has all the quality threads on the resources board.

Ive had the same experience as OP with weird usage of this rule:

There are things I would pay for, a web client for example. But I cant let anyone know about that here without a mod pulling the thread.
Im supposed to make a post in the jobs boards and ask someone to build one specifically for me, from scratch.

Its just weird and puts hurdles in front of people.

 

[Deleted member 49793]

Weird situation, cause I totally can sympathize to both sides of the argument. I see why Kondrah's upset, I see why the community feels theres odd double standards, but I also completely understand why the rule was issued in the first place.

My only input is kind of to mimic what @Leo32 mentions above. Innovation has slowed down alot over the last half a decade. Likely because much of the community is older, too busy to be in the OT hobby/industry with a current occupation. Now, the small minority has been able to make OT development an actual job, whether freelance programming, running a project, freelance mapping, art, whatever.

I see why it's easy to first move to discouraging this. Because there were many before us that did this all purely as a hobby, as a free service to the community. However, as people grow up, some choices arise. A massive one being, do I try to progress the OT space with my time, or do I move on to something else and abandon the community. The primary factor in that choice as an adult is where the money is. Unfortunately, most adults need to make money to pay rent, food, bills, possibly even the cost of a child/dependant. This means they either find a way to be a minority in this space, and make money progressing and furthering projects and OT's as a whole, or they simply leave the community.

My point being, one result is this person is gone, and our community has shrunk, and OT's lose that progression. The other result is this person strengthens the community and OT's, keeping them relevant and evolving, and sure, they make some money for their time.

In the end, if Kondrah is one of the few people seriously progressing OTC and making it a serious viable alternative like he indeed is, and charging for it, well whats the alternative, he gets blacklisted, censored, and moves on from the OT space and we lose that progression.

Again, I see both sides, I totally understand Don's side, and OTland's stance in general. Just saying theres really only 2 outcomes that happen with a community at our age, and one of those strengthens and progresses it, where the other simply lets it fizzle off into nothing.