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Suggestion Clarify and follow rules

Night Wolf

I don't bite.
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This is going to sound super stupid but this isn't the first time posts/threads of mine are deleted arbitrarily, sometimes I even received warns even being compliant with otland rules.

I've created a chat message a while ago with @Don Daniello, @Kaspar and @WibbenZ to share this frustration but I think we should also involve the rest of community in this feedback.

My suggestion is:
1) if the rules aren't clear in a particular situation, can we then change the rules instead of just saying "rules are only a guide, we do what we judge is right"
2) can we please enforce rules are being followed BY EVERY MEMBER (including staff)? I don't understand why we let specific members flame other repositories while when devs of those repositories try to defend themselves their posts are deleted.

If the general rule is to stick to thread, why haven't @epunker being warned in his COUNTLESS accusations of members of Otbr? Do I need to start reporting one by one?
 
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Meanwhile in their normal english chat at OTBR Discord (and i'm skipping most insults from the OTBR staff to otland and TFS itself), i don't want to flame but OTBR organization is a bit hypocrite when it comes to claim about who should be banned, sorry guys, this isn't your discord where you insult and you call dumb everyone when you are at a bad mood.

OTBR is a meme, but a bad one and @zbizu is also being hypocrite on this thread now, he hates to have people selling edits but you allow what otbr does, selling them and redistributing them to their donator community (obviously they doesn't want bad advertisement as is their main source of income), if not, ask @joriku that wants to be donator of otbr soon.

View attachment 63159
Maybe zbizu is getting paid by them now?
Well I loved that you used this specific thread to justify. Can you post the whole thread? We were saying those things exactly due to lack of guidelines and a lot of bias that happened in otland moderators actions. This is an expression against the daily power abuse we face in this forum. Using our reactions to a given action to justify that we shouldn't be complaining about those actions and, because of that, call we hypocrites makes no sense.

We have always collaborate for free, with tons of content that TFS wasn't giving a s**** about and being called buggy, bad and a joke by those same people. It's hypocrite from your part to ask for respect from our side after years of attempts from tfs to split the community instead of unite. Maybe you like being attacked and continue to lick the shoes of who is attacking you, but that's not a fair thing to request to everyone else.

If TFS shows a change of mindset and want to work together (not in a same repo, but sharing knowledge, learnings, etc) and not against each other, I'm more than happy to support it. But that's not what I'm seeing in the last 3-4 years.

So yeah, excuse us for not respond to daily ofenses and power abuses with love, we will try to be better.
 
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This post doesn't need to turn into a snowball of insults and finger pointing. @xZest we were just sharing our frustration, we deep dive the details here too. For someone who dislike the project you're too close to it.

Again, back to the original feedback. Why do I believe we need to clarify the rules? I invite you check a few examples that happened since 2020:


1) Off-topic by commenting in OTCV8 thread about OTCV8:
After an user commented in V8 development thread that he was still facing some issues that could also be found in otland/otclient, I wrote a long comment discouraging people to buy v8 because it was still a work in progress and we had no way of knowing if the main developer would continue fixing/improving it further in future. I made a comparison with how other repositories work, even TFS and I got this as a reply:
1635498572730.png

and after I said I disagreed with the punishment:

1635498644962.png

First of all the rule about offtopic states the following:
1. Offtopic messages:
Posting messages that have no relevance to the topic of the thread you are posting in will lead to your post being deleted. Repeated posting of offtopic messages may lead to a punishment.

My post was deleted and I got a warn, below are the types of punishment stated in rules:
Types of punishments:
1. Warning (non-recorded):

A post, visitor message, or private message by a moderator notifying you of what you did wrong. Moderators will guide you and inform you with what is the right thing to do and which rules you have broken. Possibly there will be a little addendum to inform you of an upcoming action in case you violate another rule.

2. Warning (Recorded):
A warning is a serious type of punishment. When you receive a warning, you receive a specific amount of points with it. When you reach 3 warning points, you will automatically be banned till atleast one of the points have expired. You will be notified of a received warning through a private message. You will also find a message specified by the moderator who gave it to you. You can complain about the warning by replying to the private message and the responsible moderator will give you information about the reason you got it.

I've carefully read the addendums, apparently he was mentioning about [4] because it's the only one that makes sense:

Addendums:
Addendum 1:

There are no excuses for breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if you were angry at the time and weren't thinking straight. It doesn't matter if you were only kidding around. If you break a rule, it does the same damage, regardless of your reasons for breaking it, and you will be punished all the same.

Addendum 2:
Position abuse will not be tolerated. As a staff member, our job is to help people, not harm them. We may only use our powers for the purposes that they have been given to us. Any sign of abuse should be reported to an administrator immediately.

Addendum 3:
If you break multiple rules, the punishments will be combined. A permanent ban can be applied if it is seen neccessary.

Addendum 4:
Harrassing moderators for one of their actions is not acceptable. Sometimes we are streched and we have to make difficult decisions. However, we are just doing our job. A punishment isn't something that should be taken personal. You can also help with rule enforcement by pressing the "Report" button whenever you find something that is problematic. You can complain for an unjustified action using the Feedback board but you may not attack the responsible moderator in a personal manner. We are all humans, we also make mistakes.

Addendum 5:
There may be sticky threads on several boards that work as an addition to these rules. Every sticky thread containing board rules should be checked and followed.

In the end I didn't wanted to stretch this discussion, I've created a new topic and this should be it. But then some of my messages in my own topic discussion were also being removed, even when I was literaly just arguing with quotes and replies explaining my point of view.

2) Lock of my otcv8 discussion thread + warn for "Advertising":
This was a bump discussion between me and half of the staff, to summarize they decided the discussion was too "heated" and lock the thread.
Plus I got a warning for "Advertising" OTCV8. Yes, me. 😂

The discussion was long and overwhelming, the key points I have raised there were the following:
1) The topic shouldn't be locked, there were many people standing up and talking openly about V8, which increased awareness for other users too.
2) This comment isn't advertising. I've heard it could be interpreted as "Indirect advertising" but I said it's impossible to criticize something without advertising it.
1635499964367.png

Again, here's the rule about Advertising:
4. Advertising:
You are allowed to advertise your Open Tibia server only in the Server Gala board. Website advertisement, as in creating a thread with the intention to advertise another website is not allowed. You are free to link to websites in your signature though, as long as it doesn't contain content that we don't allow on OTLand.

3) Inappropriate advertising by solving a topic with a link.
1635500214087.png


This one was a bit complicated, we came into a disagreement about the rule about advertising and the staff member was extremely arrogant and in defensive mode, even to the point where he twisted an existing rule just to justify my warning:

WOLF:
OK, I'll remove my message.
But I don't exactly understand why this is innappropriate advertising:
"as in creating a thread with the intention to advertise another website is not allowed "

I did not did it to advertise other forum, just to share a content that I was unable to find here at otland.

STAFF:
If a moderator is explicitly telling you that you broke the rules, then you did. Linking to another OTsite, saying that they have content we don't, is advertisement. If you didn't know then, at least now you know.

WOLF:
It's kinda sad to see this level of arrogance from people that are just here to assist the forum. Make the rules clearer next time because I never knew it would be forbidden to paste a content from another site, even an OT one.

It's so simple to me that the target group of otservbr, tibiaking and xtibia are completely different from otland, but if you don't see that and rather punish me with a warning over some understanding that you had of the rule that you think is more valid than my own then it's ok.

STAFF:
We are moderators and we apply warnings in accordance to our rules. Of course we cannot have every single rule listed, since people like you will always find a way to interpret them differently. That's what warnings are for, to notify and clarify the respective user that what he/she did is not OK.
That's what I just did. You now know that it's not OK.
If you read the rules you'll clearly know that you may only advertise your OT server. Website advertisement is not allowed. I found your post to be a form of advertisement, so you received a warning.

Go ahead and make a few discussion threads about how corrupt and arrogant I am. You are the kind of person that is looking for people to blame in every single situation. How can you deduct that I am arrogant for saying that moderators are the ones writing, editing and applying the rules? The administrators of the site gave us the task to do so.

I don't care about you at all, who you are nor what you want to accomplish. What reason do I have to be arrogant toward you if I don't even care about you to begin with?
If you find that you've been treated unfairly I would suggest you to contact another moderator firstly, if that doesn't give you your imaginary justice, then contact an administrator or even make a complaint thread about my actions. I encourage you to do it.

If I genuinly disliked you and had a malicious intent toward you, then you'd be gone long ago. You've posted a lot of messages that we deleted without giving you warnings for. Howcome we didn't warn you, you might think?

4) Report Kondra for advertising otcv8 and other bug fixes for sale.
When I reported Kondra for also advertise (considering the same way of thinking that staff used to give my previous warn) they said it was compliant with the rules.
Even though I can reach his pricing area 2 clicks away: otland topic -> GitHub - OTCv8/otclientv8: Clean, ready to use version of OTClientV8 - Alternative, highly optimized Tibia client (https://github.com/OTCv8/otclientv8) -> http://************/
(Will you also warn me again now?)

WOLF:
He puts the systems he sells in his signature, all his topics bragging about new features that you can 'preview' or pay for the full version are not considered 'selling' but I get a warning to say 'kondra is selling' with the justificative that "by mentioning the sales you're advertising his sale and it's against rules".

STAFF:
He has been told to remove his links to his website from the forum (and he has) and that was a while ago.
If you want me to ban you (kinda sounds like it) then just ask me and ill do it np, but unless he breaks a rule that I can enforce there really is nothing I can do.
What can I do if he does his deals via ex discord, can I verify any of them? No.

What he really is doing is like alot of users have done (I have aswell) posted a link to a job thread / website where they can buy services from him, no one can control if he wrote that code before or after the buyer accepted the job.
The issue you did was posting his website where he advertises/advertised his offer, thats why you got a warning.

WOLF:
the site is in his signature.. just read the readme.

Also, advertising is only allowed in jobs section right? he has all his services in the signature (and also the price). I don't see why I get a warning for saying he does sales and he can literally post a github with instructions on how to pay for full version and don't get one.

STAFF:
He is allowed to advertise that he is "selling" a job even in his sign., he can't say he is selling a product.
ex: OtLand - The Official Rules for OTLand (https://otland.net/threads/the-official-rules-for-otland.256173/)

The problem with your post was that you linked to his webiste (that not even he can) since he is selling pre-made products there.

You won't get banned if you follow the simple rules, if you are stupid enough to not do that .. well there is nothing I can help you with.
It's like blaming the country laws because you drove over the the speed limit, you can't blame the officer for taking your license and giving you a fee.

5) Selective "inappropriate behavior" warn.
There are countless examples all over otland of ~ranked~ members (gesior, evil punker, nekiro and others - zbizu included.) attacking OTBR repositories. But in lots of situations where we replied back our comments were deleted, threads were closed or warns were given. This case was not different
A member talks about a crash he was facing with OTBR in the support thread, one of the comments made by gesior was saying otbr was "buggy and crashes often" which I promptly replied saying he should stick with his area of knowledge and fix his own repositories too instead of attacking others, so we wouldn't have several premium gesiors without sql injection out there. Also in the same comment I was asking OP to confirm he followed build instructions correctly.
My comment was deleted an a warn was given , here's the continuation of the discussion with staff after this disagreement:

WOLF:
what you said makes no sense at all.
Have you warned gesior too for his abusive language that discourage all opentibiabr devs too?

STAFF - being ironic:
Report his post that is rulebreaking and we'll look into it.

WOLF:
you just passed through it, are you being sarcastic?

STAFF:
The user said what he believes to be the issue related to the thread starter's question. You however, are inciting a discussion unrelated to the thread's topic which is against the rules. I've noticed that it's a pattern of yours, to start unrelated discussions on people's Support threads. Don't do that.

WOLF:
You have someone asking for help and you have two comments:
"yeah, the project is shit"
"op, did you followed the tutorials for compiling and can you please give me more details on what you're trying to do"

and you said the second one is abusive? common, you must think I am retard.
Post automatically merged:

Those are just a few examples, there were plenty others that are not mentioned because I have other things to do instead of crawling the countless attacks / consent of staff.
 

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I love your PR, and from my personal perspective you seem to be on the path to become an officially recognized TFS Developer. (I even vouched for you last time, before you spat in our face). Trust, respect and cooperation is essential to be an official member of our team.

I also like the OTBR community, I have high respect for their developers, and wish them a welcoming atmosphere here on otland. I am against spreading accusations and hate towards them. We are all great open source projects, the code we contribute to the community benefits us all.

But that is not a discussion to be had in The Forgotten Server Development board.
This is exactly the mindset I wanted to see spread. And I do agree with what yoy said about the tfs dev board, that's not necessarily the place. But what we are pointing out is that most of the time those decision on how to apply the rules are biased and towards specific users. I saw countless times moderators removing posts of specific users with a given reason and keeping others that were doing the same. That's what we don't want, and the reason wolf wrote this thread.

In other words, if all mods had the same attitude of yours, being able to split job and personal opinions and cheering for the success of the community, we wouldn't need this thread at all.
 
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Meanwhile in their normal english chat at OTBR Discord (and i'm skipping most insults from the OTBR staff to otland and TFS itself), i don't want to flame but OTBR organization is a bit hypocrite when it comes to claim about who should be banned, sorry guys, this isn't your discord where you insult and you call dumb everyone when you are at a bad mood.

OTBR is a meme, but a bad one and @zbizu is also being hypocrite on this thread now, he hates to have people selling edits but you allow what otbr does, selling them and redistributing them to their donator community (obviously they doesn't want bad advertisement as is their main source of income), if not, ask @joriku that wants to be donator of otbr soon.

View attachment 63159
Maybe zbizu is getting paid by them now?
I am here, aka. Joriku. Think you've misunderstood a lil. I'll do the next part for you so you don't have to quickly take a picture to attack once more. (Pic below)
541c48e84fab4f0a6640d4e9128cb758.png
 
I just have one thing to add on a serious note to the mods.
You guys must have felt that in the past year or so a lot of people have been complaining about your actions and the manner in which you monitor this forum. I am sure you are adults enough to realize there is something that is not right with your behavior. I would also like to think that you are aware enough to admit your own mistakes, so why not start out with a huge leap and admit that you have during certain times chosen to interpret rules in different manners just because it suited you or you wanted to. I believe all of us would appreciate that insight and give us some hope for a more open communication between mods and users and more understanding.

An example from me would be; stop allowing OP to decide if a post in their thread is deemed on/off topic. This causes major confusion.

Personally I would like to say a whole lot of other shit when it comes to the bans I have received simply because of simplistic and silly reasons, but I choose to not go there since I know that it will just lead to more arguments since people would agree with me. I am not here to start a battle between users and mods, I just think you guys need to see it from a different perspective.
 
Well, I didn't want to start a hunt, but since someone already brought such thread up, I'll share my experience regarding rules enforcement. About a month ago I was given a warning point by WibbenZ for this post, because it contained four language versions of that news, as on our server's website. So the reason was "foreign language". Given the context it had zero social harm I was kinda surprised, but alright. WibbenZ said that rules are rules, I have to follow them, no matter how minor the violation is. I get the approach. But... in the same time I reported some guy for discussing one OT in threads of other servers, it's disallowed by the board rules. And WibbenZ himself rejected the report, saying that "some rules are written more strictly than they are". So this time minor violation wasn't as big deal as mine. How am I supposed to know which rules are applied more or less strictly? I don't know. Whatever.

Some time later I was given another warning point for a discussion in this thread with that Nathu guy. He intentionally provoked an offtopic personal dispute, but I didn't question my warning point. Then again, just after our posts were removed, he basically started the same, repeating the same provocation. This time I didn't answer but reported it and it was rejected, because I can ignore him. So the provocations aren't punished, as long as they aren't responded? But when you respond you both get equal points? Sure, I didn't question that either, just ignored him as been told to.

Then another week passed and I heard that the same guy began to slander me and my server in his own server's thread. He was throwing shit, implying that I ddosed him, with literally no reason. I msged Kaspar (because he was the one to end our dispute in that thread earlier) but he said he was off his duties for some time. So yet again, I was like "whatever, nevermind that" and just ignored the slander.

But then, that Nathu guy apparently cheerful with his impunity, continued slandering my team and our server in his own server's thread, this time saying that we might be stealing players' personal data. So this time I thought: no, it can't work like that, that someone can throw any shit at me and I am advised to ignore it, or I get warned. Meanwhile also getting warned for "foreign language" with zero harm. I described the whole situation and sent a message to WibbenZ, because I already had an open conversation with him after the first case. And this is were it gets hilarious. WibbenZ not only called that slander a feedback, but also ignored the fact that he was giving that "feedback" about my person and server in his own server's thread. His literal answer was that "he can post it as long as he doesn't break the rules". What the heck? He can post things that break the rules as long as they don't break the rules? After explaining to him the differences between opinion/feedback and defamation/slander, as well as pointing several times more that he was posting it in his own server's thread, not mine, which is a rule violation itself; WibbenZ continued to give other answers out of place, like "go sue him if you want" and that "posting negative feedback is not breaking the rules, you can just answer him". Remember that I was previously advised not to answer provocations of that guy. Plus if I joined his server's thread to relate to his statements about me and my server I would be automatically breaking the rule that forbids discussing other servers in server gala threads. He also said it wasn't a violation, what that guy was posting, because it was related to my server, not my person, hence wasn't personal. That guy implied that I ddosed him and stole players' data (?). But according to WibbenZ explanation, it was all feedback about my server, nothing personal.

Then I asked if I could bash on others servers in my thread too. The answer was - now quoting - "You can't bash on other servers from your own thread you said you read our rules?". I'd say it was confusing, but that's a strong euphemism. So he can bash on my server in his thread, I can't bash on other server in my own. DID I READ THE RULES?

So for tenth time (no kidding) I pointed that guy was posting shit about me in his own thread and that these answers made no sense whatsoever. Then WibbenZ replied "From what I saw is that he posted in YOUR thread not HIS, HE is allowed to write negative things about your server. YOU are allowed to respond (as I wrote before, but you said it's not worth it) ..". Fucking FACEPALM. After more than 20 messages and mentioning 10 times that he was doing it in his thread (I'm not exeggarating), it turned out WibbenZ thought it was my thread. That means he didn't even check that thread at all, nor cared to read my messages. And that's exactly what I told him.
What did he do then? Realized his mistake and was sorry? Hell, no. He instantly went defensive and said: "Seems like you have something against me and thats fine, but if you actually wanna create a report then do so". As if I wasn't trying to create a report since a week and 20 messages at this point! That was his last message as he stopped responding to me at all. I don't know if he cynically trolled me for all that time, or he really thought I held some grudge against him? All I can say is that this incompetence and impertinence was unbelievable.

So now for the next year I am one warning point to a banishment (both points I was given have one year expiration) just because I posted a translation and because I responded to a provocation once (without insults or anything, just something that went a bit "offtopic"). One more 'minor violation' in the next 11 months and I'm wiped from this forum. Meanwhile each time I want to report some utterly toxic attitude, my reports are rejected or I have to go through such shit, absurd arguments from a troll-moderator, statements that contradict each other, and just to be ignored in the end. I remember the other time I was being harassed by one guy who used multi account (his main one was banned at the time), I knew who it was (some idiot who was sending death threats to me and other shit) and described everything. All reports were getting rejected and said that I "misuse report function". Some time later that guy posted literal rl-threats openly and publicly in my thread and only then he was banned.
I don't know if it's just me, but something isn't right here.

Nothing of the above was embellished or exeggarated, I can show all the messages if necessary.

My suggestion is:
1) if the rules aren't clear in a particular situation, can we then change the rules instead of just saying "rules are only a guide, we do what we judge is right"
2) can we please enforce rules are being followed BY EVERY MEMBER (including staff)? I don't understand why we let specific members flame other repositories while when devs of those repositories try to defend themselves their posts are deleted.
Apparently some rules are a guide, others are strict without any "but", and you never know to which you refer. So far those that I happen to break are all the strict ones, while those that for which I report violations are only a guide. o_O
And sorry to the rest of the staff for my sarcastic tone, but after having been literally trolled by a moderator, it's really hard to maintain more neutral tone.
 
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@kay this is exactly how I felt, I had to step out for otland during a few months because mods were on me. Idk if this was bc people were reporting every post of mine or people simply didn't wanted me there;

I was surprised honestly to don't get banned already, not because I'm toxic and don't follow rules but rather because I question a lot and I see that this is not well perceived by this community. You can see the ctrl c + ctrl v of the cases I've showed. I don't want to point names, don should have access to my PMs and can double check the discussions if needed.

I just want to know how we should interpret rules. Even situations that a warn with point was not necessary they were given as a way to intimidate.
 
This is all a fuss :D
I think that they should follow the rules, no matter what they are, everyone accepts them when registering in the forum, there is no justification, follow the rules and that's it! be good people.

I've read a bit, and it seems to be a topic that has been talked about a lot lately, the competition of who is better, TFS, OTBR, etc...
I don't know why they say it's a competition if tfs and otbr are focused on different things, tfs is a base engine for any project alternative tibia, while obtr just wants to make a copy paste of tibia rl, It is not any competition, it is just two servers that follow different courses, and everyone has their own problems to solve ;)

Note out of context and funny: I don't know who is going to read those wills that are above UwU
 
All in all, OTLand became pretty much a meme in terms of how it's being ran, ever since Mark got inactive. And seemingly everyone seems to know that, except the people in charge, maybe that's worth thinking about :rolleyes:
And I've seen multiple members of the staff express similar views in places disconnected from OTLand, the sad part is that they likely won't ever talk about it when it matters, so there's never a push for change
 
@kay this is exactly how I felt, I had to step out for otland during a few months because mods were on me. Idk if this was bc people were reporting every post of mine or people simply didn't wanted me there;

I was surprised honestly to don't get banned already, not because I'm toxic and don't follow rules but rather because I question a lot and I see that this is not well perceived by this community. You can see the ctrl c + ctrl v of the cases I've showed. I don't want to point names, don should have access to my PMs and can double check the discussions if needed.

I just want to know how we should interpret rules. Even situations that a warn with point was not necessary they were given as a way to intimidate.
I understand that any action (delete posts or not, give a point or not, give it long expiration or not) it's all up to a moderator and there will be no strict penal code. Most of the time it will be based on a moderator's feeling. It's just a forum afterall, not a court case. I also understand that it's hard (or impossible) to be 100% consistent in every warning/case, especially since there are several moderators, not just one. Again, it's only a forum. That's why I never really complained until now.
All I expect from a forum moderator is to use a common sense and don't troll around.
It just doesn't make sense when one moderator in one conversation tells me "even if it's minor or harmless violation you have to follow the rules" (as a reason to my warn) and then that "some rules are written more strictly than they are" (as a reason to reject my report). Not to mention all that trolling WibbenZ done to me later. I hope I won't get banned for offending someone now. As I said, I can post the whole conversation with him and leave it up to you to decide whether I have a right to call it trolling, and whether he had the right to react the way he did.
 
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This is all a fuss :D
I think that they should follow the rules, no matter what they are, everyone accepts them when registering in the forum, there is no justification, follow the rules and that's it! be good people.

I've read a bit, and it seems to be a topic that has been talked about a lot lately, the competition of who is better, TFS, OTBR, etc...
I don't know why they say it's a competition if tfs and otbr are focused on different things, tfs is a base engine for any project alternative tibia, while obtr just wants to make a copy paste of tibia rl, It is not any competition, it is just two servers that follow different courses, and everyone has their own problems to solve ;)

Note out of context and funny: I don't know who is going to read those wills that are above UwU
You're such a great developer, I'm sad that you limit yourself to this role of ignoring things and blindly believe what you hear. If you read the thread with attention you'll see that:

1. It's not a competition, we are asking exactly the opposite, to stop the competition and start to create a community feeling.
2. There is power abuse without reason from mods, that is completely unrelated to otbr or tfs.
3. Otbr goal is not to copy and paste tibia.

I hope you start using your talent with better guidance and better purpose than just parrot whatever people throw to you. I really admire your skills, It's just a shame to see it missused.

Don't receive it as a critic, It's a constructive feedback. 😊
 
@Don Daniello

I'd like to see a response from the moderation about the latest posts here.
Plus, we have a new recent case of the staff trying to alienate the members of the community by not giving a chance for the members to defend themselves of accusations/diffamations made by TFS development group.

Recently we had a situation (now on otland github) where @Znote asked @zbizu to rebase his PR of 12.x update.
Couple hours later we had a new PR of @Evil Puncker that was disrespectful to say the least, starting the rebase without talking to @zbizu and plus messing commits names and a branch called "cringe". He also was generic in the credits, almost like he was trying to dimish zbizu's work and be accounted in the contributor list for the PR and number of changed items.


@zbizu commented about this:
1636479966232.png

and then once again @Evil Puncker saw this as an opportunity to attack otbr, without any consequence or warnings from the team.
1636480163396.png

Right afterward the thread was locked to prevent any response, giving epunker the "last word" as it's very common around otland too.
1636480284720.png

@EduardoDantas create an issue in order to reply epunker, which isn't the right approach but it was the only option to give others a chance to read the other side of the history, but guess what? The post was censored by epunker before getting closed:
1636480471009.png


@Znote Evil Punker is not a member of the organization, so he couldn't lock the tread. Given the time and the way of acting I'd say it was @Nekiro.

Why the comment of epunker was not edited to avoid people from otland/tfs ONCE AGAIN, spreading misinformation and flamming other projects? Is this what otland team has become? A community that only serves to jerk off their own ego?
 

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