[Discussion] The Paladin

[Singularity]

Paladins.

Through a mechanical perspective they have low spell damage due to a high weapon damage output and by the nature of how distance weapons deal damage (melee weapons included) - there lies the problem: complete random probability.

(i.e.) Whereas the other vocations have somewhat of a static way to deal damage for a guaranteed impact; Paladins are solely reliant on their weapon to deal by probability, a significant amount of damage.

Thus, in Freyja's opinion would be to raise the min damage of distance fighting to be either ½ or ⅓ of the max for a higher % of avg damages.

Chart diagram (Numbers; Tibia-Stats):

Paladin
Level: 300
Distance Skill: 210 (Utito Tempo San)
Thorn Spitter + Infernal Bolts

Give your input.

 

[tae]

Signed

 

[Rotyloki]

You MAD BRO

Skills PLX OFFLINE TRAIN ONLY


HIT IS VERY GOOD

RP 40% Anti Death Heal 1.3k Per Combo


And Want Super hits? wtf?

 

[Singularity]

You MAD BRO

Skills PLX OFFLINE TRAIN ONLY


HIT IS VERY GOOD

RP 40% Anti Death Heal 1.3k Per Combo


And Want Super hits? wtf?

Freyja never said anything about Super Hits or anything in relation to increasing the damage of the Paladin.

Did you even read?

The purpose of the thread was to discuss the intricacies of why the Paladins are so far behind the Mage and Knight in (PVP) combat.

In summary, Paladins are fine but rely solely on their weapon output which is completely random based on probability that one would land a significant blow. While the Knight would have the same mechanic (melee), they have somewhat static non-missing spells. As for the Mages they completely have a high static damage output. Therefore, Freyja's idea was for Distance Fighting min damage be calculated as either ½ or ⅓ of the max for a higher % of avg damages* to put them on par with the Knight and Mage.

In an argument, you are to take the opposition, analyze the details, and then refute the opposition by giving your logical detailed explanation of why.

 

[Mafiozi]

God this 3rd person talking

 

[Heroic]

Why the fuck are you referring to yourself in third person, dude?

 

[Flann Skywi]

Singing

 

[Xanabis]

Singed

 

[hiperkarma]

Higher minimum damage, lower maximum damage. Otherwise I'm not signing.

 

[Singularity]

Why the fuck are you referring to yourself in third person, dude?

o7 Due to the fact that Freyja can and will.

Higher minimum damage, lower maximum damage. Otherwise I'm not signing.

Why is that so. The chart does not provide accurate values - they are assumptions. In theory, with the changes; a Paladin will on average deal around 400~500 per combo, then mitigated by target's armor.

 

[chapman]

First of all, why do you refer to yourself in third person?

Second, paladins aren't supposed to deal damage like mages. They already gain more hitpoints and manapoints with every level advance than any other vocation, they heal insanely good and they have like a 30-35% death protection (maybe even 40% with death ring, I don't have the exact numbers), which helps them tremendously in wars.

Also, the thorn spitter isn't the only weapon for a paladin. Use a warsinger bow + crystalline arrows and you will have a 100% hit rate.

Freyja never said anything about Super Hits or anything in relation to increasing the damage of the Paladin.

Say what? The whole thread is about increasing the average damage of paladins. According to the charts you want to increase your average damage by 112 hit points per turn.

One vocation is not supposed to exceed (or even equal) the abilities of the others in every aspect of the game.

 

[Rotyloki]

Freyja never said anything about Super Hits or anything in relation to increasing the damage of the Paladin.

Did you even read?

The purpose of the thread was to discuss the intricacies of why the Paladins are so far behind the Mage and Knight in (PVP) combat.

In summary, Paladins are fine but rely solely on their weapon output which is completely random based on probability that one would land a significant blow. While the Knight would have the same mechanic (melee), they have somewhat static non-missing spells. As for the Mages they completely have a high static damage output. Therefore, Freyja's idea was for Distance Fighting min damage be calculated as either ½ or ⅓ of the max for a higher % of avg damages* to put them on par with the Knight and Mage.
In an argument, you are to take the opposition, analyze the details, and then refute the opposition by giving your logical detailed explanation of why.

Sorry But The paladin will always be the most noob
Sorry But The paladin will always be the most noob

Freyja never said anything about Super Hits or anything in relation to increasing the damage of the Paladin.

Did you even read?

The purpose of the thread was to discuss the intricacies of why the Paladins are so far behind the Mage and Knight in (PVP) combat.

In summary, Paladins are fine but rely solely on their weapon output which is completely random based on probability that one would land a significant blow. While the Knight would have the same mechanic (melee), they have somewhat static non-missing spells. As for the Mages they completely have a high static damage output. Therefore, Freyja's idea was for Distance Fighting min damage be calculated as either ½ or ⅓ of the max for a higher % of avg damages* to put them on par with the Knight and Mage.
In an argument, you are to take the opposition, analyze the details, and then refute the opposition by giving your logical detailed explanation of why.

 

[Singularity]

First of all, why do you refer to yourself in third person?

Second, paladins aren't supposed to deal damage like mages. They already gain more hitpoints and manapoints with every level advance than any other vocation, they heal insanely good and they have like a 30-35% death protection (maybe even 40% with death ring, I don't have the exact numbers), which helps them tremendously in wars.

Also, the thorn spitter isn't the only weapon for a paladin. Use a warsinger bow + crystalline arrows and you will have a 100% hit rate.


Say what? The whole thread is about increasing the average damage of paladins. According to the charts you want to increase your average damage by 112 hit points per turn.

One vocation is not supposed to exceed (or even equal) the abilities of the others in every aspect of the game.

Response to third person: "Meows"

That person refers to super hits (i.e) ridiculous damage output or increasing the maximum damage a Paladin would deal which is not the purpose of this thread.

Freyja is aware of that, the values and weapons used are for examples. However, it is not about whether the Paladin hits the target or does not but the very fact that their damage is based on probability to either:

1. hit a 10
2. hit a 500 (based on sheer, dumb, luck)

Along with their attack spells which have little impact or none at all. Increase their avg damage would aid them to not be reliant on probability but will be sure of their hits having any real effect.

 

[oscar18]

the god does not even look this post

And I did not sign

 

[Chainer]

The question is is this a design flaw or an intended mechanic? Twify has to be careful about balancing out vocations and spells lest it get out of hand and we have a totally different game than how we started (not that I mind personally, I really enjoy well designed non-RL Tibia OTs). I will warily agree and would suggest this change only make its way into PvP. My reasoning here is that 25 damage in a player versus player environment doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of difference due to the abundant forms of healing, you might as well had missed. But if we do a 33% minimum and it hits for 255 well that's more likely a dead target. That might seem high but considering the scenario of 300 RP with 210 distance and infernal bolts/thorn splitter I'm sure we're looking at the upper bound damage output.

 

[Singularity]

The question is is this a design flaw or an intended mechanic? Twify has to be careful about balancing out vocations and spells lest it get out of hand and we have a totally different game than how we started (not that I mind personally, I really enjoy well designed non-RL Tibia OTs). I will warily agree and would suggest this change only make its way into PvP. My reasoning here is that 25 damage in a player versus player environment doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of difference due to the abundant forms of healing, you might as well had missed. But if we do a 33% minimum and it hits for 255 well that's more likely a dead target. That might seem high but considering the scenario of 300 RP with 210 distance and infernal bolts/thorn splitter I'm sure we're looking at the upper bound damage output.

Very good points.

Knowing CipSoft, it could have been an intended design flaw, Freyja's assumption could be wrong.

The idea was directed towards PVP as the values are shown as such. In order for this to work, there must be two separate calculations for the distance formula:

1. if target is player
2. if target is creature

In a previous update, area of effect spells were change to deal ½ damage when PZ-locked, with players complaining about how it affected PVM as well (meaning using the variable $PZ-locked for this to be active, would not work). So Freyja does not know how can this can be done to only be in effect for PVP.

 

[wickedd]

this is really smart i read the first post;;; most important one
but he\she does make a point the random hits of paladins do suck \\ u go to utito for a combo on someone n u could hit 40 only ...
i like the idea of making the minimum hit higher , signed

 

[Ralls]

Singed.

 

[chapman]

Singed.

Which song did you sing?