Donations, what are your thoughts?

[Zisly]

A lot of the server available today have some kind of system making it possible for people to donate. But in almost all cases it isn't about donating but to buy a service or an item. Even though this is obviously selling people still go around thinking this is donating. It is not.

Some arguments, by the server owners, on why they call "donations" is that you do not have to pay taxes on donations. A donation is given as appreciation or good will without expecting anything in return, this is far from true within the server scene. People/players are getting and expecting things in return. The owners even name it "donation shop", come on..
Just because you label it as donations it doesn't change the fact that you are selling services.

What if I would open a media store and then claim that my income is based on donations and the media objects are given as a thanks. That would not hold in any court.

* What are your thoughts about this?
* Should people for once start calling it what it is?
* What's your look at donations overall?

 

[Rozinx]

I really like my new car.

 

[JoccE]

On my server "donations" will be called just "Item Shop"

and ppl should stop giving out over power items like 135910751 atk wep or something.

Items that could be added for example:
Soft Boots
Annih wep
Rare set (Mpa g legs boh demon helm)

The whole thing short -> Items that could be gained in-game also.

And my look at it is. Donations should pay for the Dedicated server/the server computer, and a small fee for the guy who works on it (Not 100€ per day.. that's just lame for a hobby)

 

[Red]

A lot of the server available today have some kind of system making it possible for people to donate. But in almost all cases it isn't about donating but to buy a service or an item. Even though this is obviously selling people still go around thinking this is donating. It is not.

There are many reasons to call them donations over payments, and many reasons to call them payments over donations. My server, for example, they are labeled as donations. It all has to fit your terms & agreements.

Some arguments, by the server owners, on why they call "donations" is that you do not have to pay taxes on donations. A donation is given as appreciation or good will without expecting anything in return, this is far from true within the server scene. People/players are getting and expecting things in return. The owners even name it "donation shop", come on..
Just because you label it as donations it doesn't change the fact that you are selling services.

Untrue, I state all money coming to me as donations, because that's what I'm standing by them. I am promising nothing to the player in return for them, but likely they are to receive "points" for supporting my server, and the money I use to pay the server monthly.
This also does not mean that I do not pay taxes. On the contrary, I do pay taxes for the donations I receive, never should you use a name for tax evasion. This could be really bad for you in the future. I pay taxes for my home, city, and yearly to the government.

What if I would open a media store and then claim that my income is based on donations and the media objects are given as a thanks. That would not hold in any court.

On the same note, you cannot lose a court case if someone tries suing you for a "donation" to a server, especially when you have written agreements that players agree to before donating. If they are paying you for a service, and you deny it, they have more leverage over you.

Those are my thoughts, at least.

Red

 

[Greyshade]

I really like my new car.

This.
Honestly thought, some players seems interested in playing servers with ridicilous donations.

 

[Rozinx]

I know
To improve the server, I need a stable, fast and new car, so I can get home earlier.
And I also need donation money to go to pubs, bars and parties, drink alot and such, cause that's where I brainstorm and think about improvements.

 

[Shinmaru]

Just like OTland gives benefits to donators, but the part of making a
Donation Item Shop is ridiculous in my opinion, server "owners" should
give a prefixed, not 5 for 25, etc. Like this if you donate 5
or more to this server players will gain the following benefits:
"State your benefits here"
Even the "Prefixed" points count a s a benefit since it's predetermined
"Owners" can also make a special donators group on their server that
ingame item discount just for being in that group.
Those are just Ideas to avoid the "Shop" look about donations, but like
Red said "terms & agreements", that is what all servers should have,
I mean there are lots of us who script and make unique things for our
servers and in the end of it all they have the same donate amount like
any other cheap install'nPlay servers out there. also here is reference
on how OTland does their agreements and state their benefits to the user
Donation terms & agreements

 

[LoLaye]

Its what otland does? it gives you the donator rank, you also get many features that it is impossible for the normal users to have..

 

[Paxton]

Sue them!

 

[Rexxar]

If regarding an OT server, it's quite simple:

If you call your donations anything else but "Donations", you are quite literally making money off something cipsoft created. This is illegal.

This will also result in CIPsoft sueing your ass off the second they find out about it.


So either you call your donations "Donations" or you pay a hefty lawsuit bill of around 100,000 Euros or more to CIPsoft GmBH. Your choice.

 

[Dante]

Its ok, as long you dont make it as Tibia.

 

[Rexxar]

Its ok, as long you dont make it as Tibia.

"Make it as tibia", which translates to:

• Usage of the name "Tibia" at all, on the website, ingame, forum or anywhere else
• Usage of the original tibia sprites
• Usage of the original tibia client
• Use, do or state anything that would imply that your server is in any way related to tibia at all.

 

[JoccE]

"Make it as tibia", which translates to:

• Usage of the name "Tibia" at all, on the website, ingame, forum or anywhere else
• Usage of the original tibia sprites
• Usage of the original tibia client
• Use, do or state anything that would imply that your server is in any way related to tibia at all.

i think he mean "Don't add so you need to pay to play"

 

[Dante]

i think he mean "Don't add so you need to pay to play"

Exact.

 

[Rexxar]

Actually no.

Any form of direct payment, where the user BUYS an item from you, on an OT server will give CIPsoft legal right to sue you for a lot of money.

This because you are, like said, earning hard cash from a game (Tibia) which is created, maintained and copyrighted by CIPsoft.

This can be compared to downloading an album from iTunes, then copying the music to a CD and then selling the CD on the street. Will earn you a hefty fine, and sometimes jailtime. The company will always win because you have made money from something THEY created.


The reason everyone calls it "Donations" is because then the players are not buying something from you, but they are rather giving you free money so that you can keep your service up and running, because they like it, and in return you are gifting them with a free item in game to show that "We appreciate you helping us keeping this server up and running".


Those are the hard facts.

CIPsoft will have trouble legally suing an OT server using donations.
But a server that states that players are BUYING services from them, that gives CIPsoft 100% legal rights to sue the owner for grand amounts of cash.

 

[stian]

I thought I printed a very good list.

The server itself is not really illigal since we created all that, however it breaks US laws (so any hosting in US using Tibia or even YATC is illigal). Because noone rewrote the protocol.

Using IP-changers, modified clients are all illigal (means _all_ players can be sued). It's also illigal to all it Tibia, use any elements from Tibia's website (including, but not limited to, fonts, background, menu system, HTML, javascript). It's also illigal to run a real map (!).

If you profit from the work (even if you call it a donation) is also illigal. It's profitting from stolen work and can cause you jail time(!). No court will ever accept the fact that you call it donations . Even gaia have to pay their taxes (but they never stopped calling it donations).

 

[exique]

I thought I printed a very good list.

The server itself is not really illigal since we created all that, however it breaks US laws (so any hosting in US using Tibia or even YATC is illigal). Because noone rewrote the protocol.

Using IP-changers, modified clients are all illigal (means _all_ players can be sued). It's also illigal to all it Tibia, use any elements from Tibia's website (including, but not limited to, fonts, background, menu system, HTML, javascript). It's also illigal to run a real map (!).

If you profit from the work (even if you call it a donation) is also illigal. It's profitting from stolen work and can cause you jail time(!). No court will ever accept the fact that you call it donations . Even gaia have to pay their taxes (but they never stopped calling it donations).

:thumbup:

 

[x1nject]

I doubt cipsoft will start sueing all the OTs anytime soon.

 

[stian]

No, they can't afford that many lawyers nor having so many cases ongoing.

 

[Nevalopo]

my avatar says everything