economy in an ot.

[Vizzle]

Hello, I would like to start a discussion about what would happen if an ot exactly the same as Tibia rl is created BUT without shops where you can buy weapons, shield, armor, etc.
How would the economy go? I would like to experiment with these to see how the prices of the items would change.
the only way to sell and buy items would be by using Trade with other players or The Market.

 

[dusieqq]

it would die in 1 day

 

[Beto06]

if you could forge items, farm foods & etc.. people would be trading stuff a lot but I don't know how it would end =/

Wrong section I think..

 

[dominique120]

Wrong section

PS: Lame idea because people would get bored, and how would you buy pots and runes? and houses?

 

[Ruhat]

In-game Coins would become very very valuable!

 

[Vizzle]

it would die in 1 day

Why?

if you could forge items, farm foods & etc.. people would be trading stuff a lot but I don't know how it would end =/

Wrong section I think..

actually thats a great idea, if you were able to forge items, farm food, alchemist potions etc, it would great an inmense economic system, it could be interesting.
remember that we have the market already in tibia, it could be really really possible.

why wrong section? its in the discussion area, i think is the best place for this thread, where would you put it?

Wrong section

PS: Lame idea because people would get bored, and how would you buy pots and runes? and houses?

the houses the same way, i wouldnt change that.
runes and potions, runes can be made by spells, people could make runes and sell them in the market, i think the prices of runes would decrease a lot since there would be more supply than demand, i believe.
why they would get bored? because is more easy to loot and sell to a shop and also buy directly from a shop, when you could make it WAY MORE FASTER from your own dp and also if your smart enough you could actually make profit.

In-game Coins would become very very valuable!

that would be amazing.
look at tibia now, ingame coins are not worth a shit.

 

[Gall]

Wrong section

PS: Lame idea because people would get bored, and how would you buy pots and runes? and houses?

Bored? How? Buying stuff from npc is not part of fun. Its just tool to provide players with resources to play. If you can supply players with them then there should be no problem with fun reduction. Paying for houses or blessings might be tricky though, as whatever item would take its place would become nothing else than money. Maybe some repeatable pool of quests to pay for houses and blessings? This could be interesing

If OP would find decent solution to remove money and allow for resupplying it would be most interesting to see what players would do. Continue with gold, adapt gems, barter trade? Initially gold and gems make sense but they are infinite, opposite of very limited supply in real life, so they value would constantly fall down. I would see it as really interesting experiment.

In-game Coins would become very very valuable!

Or less value than broken swords. They would had no use, no currency sink and only infinite inflation.

 

[dominique120]

How will people get bored?

"aww shit, now I have to cast this spell a gazzilion times to get my runes" "shit i died and lost my eq, now I have to hunt naked for a while to get it back" "now where the feck do I get an aol" "now what do I do with all of this loot?"

Having to do the same quest 100 times to get a blessing would be very very boring.

 

[Vizzle]

Bored? How? Buying stuff from npc is not part of fun. Its just tool to provide players with resources to play. If you can supply players with them then there should be no problem with fun reduction. Paying for houses or blessings might be tricky though, as whatever item would take its place would become nothing else than money. Maybe some repeatable pool of quests to pay for houses and blessings? This could be interesing

If OP would find decent solution to remove money and allow for resupplying it would be most interesting to see what players would do. Continue with gold, adapt gems, barter trade? Initially gold and gems make sense but they are infinite, opposite of very limited supply in real life, so they value would constantly fall down. I would see it as really interesting experiment.


Or less value than broken swords. They would had no use, no currency sink and only infinite inflation.

For houses I would actually make a market for houses, like the one we already have but in stead of items just houses, already in tibia you can sell a house to anothe rplayer, but is not safe, but making a market it would be better.

Oh, and blessings also, i wouldnt touch that at all.

I think it would be better to make 3 different currencies, one for the basic continent, rook, thais, venore, carlin, etc. Another currency for the icy island, and another for the rest. THEN people would get creative and we would also have people changing currencies and a market coudl be created in order to change the currencies and the value could go up and down, like in real life basically, it could be really interesting.

Also a new type of coin woulod have to be created, something beter than the crystal ones.

You can control inflation.

 

[Vizzle]

How will people get bored?

"aww shit, now I have to cast this spell a gazzilion times to get my runes" "shit i died and lost my eq, now I have to hunt naked for a while to get it back" "now where the feck do I get an aol" "now what do I do with all of this loot?"

Having to do the same quest 100 times to get a blessing would be very very boring.

all those complains would have a positive side.
look.
"aww shit, now I have to cast this spell a gazzilion times to get my runes" - Now you can sell your runes to get money and you can buy them again cheaper...
"shit i died and lost my eq, now I have to hunt naked for a while to get it back" - Produce food, potions, runes etc and sell them, you would get even a better eq.
"now where the feck do I get an aol" - I would leave the aol by a selling npc, i wouldnt mess up with the aol since its a unique object.
"now what do I do with all of this loot?" - Sell everything and make profit, since npcs doesnt buy all eq, people actually does, and if your lucky you could make a lot of profit.

for the bless i would leav it as an npc also, i wouldnt fuck with that..

 

[Gall]

How will people get bored?

"aww shit, now I have to cast this spell a gazzilion times to get my runes" "shit i died and lost my eq, now I have to hunt naked for a while to get it back" "now where the feck do I get an aol" "now what do I do with all of this loot?"

Having to do the same quest 100 times to get a blessing would be very very boring.

Runes:
People dealt with that in 7.4. It was doable, however I agree that's really poor design. Runes would need better way to be made, that's for sure. Simplest solution is to boost rune creation rate but that does not help that rune-making is boring. Some creatures which are not hunted could start to drop more certain runes. Mini games to rune-making could work too.
Equipment:
You still can use depo for equipment just in case.
Aol:
Same island only npc say, hi you need quest.
Loot:
Without sink for loot it would be pointless to continue playing with current drop rates. Low and medium level items would lose a lot of its value. Therefore there would be need for some sink, like crafting.
Quests:
They could be semi randomized from pool and in form of a challenge which difficulty adjust to the player.

For houses I would actually make a market for houses, like the one we already have but in stead of items just houses, already in tibia you can sell a house to anothe rplayer, but is not safe, but making a market it would be better.

Oh, and blessings also, i wouldnt touch that at all.

I think it would be better to make 3 different currencies, one for the basic continent, rook, thais, venore, carlin, etc. Another currency for the icy island, and another for the rest. THEN people would get creative and we would also have people changing currencies and a market coudl be created in order to change the currencies and the value could go up and down, like in real life basically, it could be really interesting.

Also a new type of coin woulod have to be created, something beter than the crystal ones.

You can control inflation.

Okay I see where are you going with this. I would go even futher and remove all uses for currency, cause that's more interesing.
If blessing in thais would cost 10000 thaian coins and in zao 10000 zaoan coins then you are stuck at ~1:1 exchange ratio between them. Small differences would arise from houses avaibility in towns(maybe), bigger from monster drop rates, but quickly they would become fixed, as players would migrate to best spawns. There is not much place for creativity due to players being forced to use some coins, and steady supply from those coins.
Yes you can control inflation. With limiting supply and creating currency sinks. Tibia uses npcs as hard coded values of convertion, potions and runes as small money sink but its not enough to cover powerful stream of supply. Even if you make those three currencies that does not mean you control inflation. You only proposed some currencies with infinite inflation, but no way to stop it, so after some time, 1 coin of any currency wont be worth anything.

 

[Vizzle]

Runes:
People dealt with that in 7.4. It was doable, however I agree that's really poor design. Runes would need better way to be made, that's for sure. Simplest solution is to boost rune creation rate but that does not help that rune-making is boring. Some creatures which are not hunted could start to drop more certain runes. Mini games to rune-making could work too.
Equipment:
You still can use depo for equipment just in case.
Aol:
Same island only npc say, hi you need quest.
Loot:
Without sink for loot it would be pointless to continue playing with current drop rates. Low and medium level items would lose a lot of its value. Therefore there would be need for some sink, like crafting.
Quests:
They could be semi randomized from pool and in form of a challenge which difficulty adjust to the player.


Okay I see where are you going with this. I would go even futher and remove all uses for currency, cause that's more interesing.
If blessing in thais would cost 10000 thaian coins and in zao 10000 zaoan coins then you are stuck at ~1:1 exchange ratio between them. Small differences would arise from houses avaibility in towns(maybe), bigger from monster drop rates, but quickly they would become fixed, as players would migrate to best spawns. There is not much place for creativity due to players being forced to use some coins, and steady supply from those coins.
Yes you can control inflation. With limiting supply and creating currency sinks. Tibia uses npcs as hard coded values of convertion, potions and runes as small money sink but its not enough to cover powerful stream of supply. Even if you make those three currencies that does not mean you control inflation. You only proposed some currencies with infinite inflation, but no way to stop it, so after some time, 1 coin of any currency wont be worth anything.

I really liked your ideas, i agree that the process of rune making is really boring, so some new ways of crafting could be introduced.
for the loot, i would just make the low lvl items harder to get, lowering the percentage that it will be looted.
crafting is a good idea.

I wouldnt make a currency for each city, but i would put a currency for every 3 or 4 cities probably.

to reduce inflation i would limit the supply, if for example people are getting rich by selling an object that is dropped a lot and is easy to sell i will reduce the percentage of the loot.
a way to reduce inflation also would be to put a fee for everytime you withdraw or deposit money from the bank, you pay a percentage for everytime you withdraw or deposit money.
also i would put a fee in the market also, but just for the seller.
im still thinking also more ways to reduce inflation

 

[Gall]

I really liked your ideas, i agree that the process of rune making is really boring, so some new ways of crafting could be introduced.
for the loot, i would just make the low lvl items harder to get, lowering the percentage that it will be looted.
crafting is a good idea.

I wouldnt make a currency for each city, but i would put a currency for every 3 or 4 cities probably.

to reduce inflation i would limit the supply, if for example people are getting rich by selling an object that is dropped a lot and is easy to sell i will reduce the percentage of the loot.
a way to reduce inflation also would be to put a fee for everytime you withdraw or deposit money from the bank, you pay a percentage for everytime you withdraw or deposit money.
also i would put a fee in the market also, but just for the seller.
im still thinking also more ways to reduce inflation

It would work quite well in those conditions I think. I am looking forward to live experiment.

 

[Hevar]

Haha!! Actully, this thread is funny because this will end up like with runescape. So you make the runes self and need stuff to make. Some swords would be rare and worth alot to sell it to a other people because hard to make it.


And to last part, we will eat Demon meat to feed us self haha =)

 

[Ruhat]

Bored? How? Buying stuff from npc is not part of fun. Its just tool to provide players with resources to play. If you can supply players with them then there should be no problem with fun reduction. Paying for houses or blessings might be tricky though, as whatever item would take its place would become nothing else than money. Maybe some repeatable pool of quests to pay for houses and blessings? This could be interesing

If OP would find decent solution to remove money and allow for resupplying it would be most interesting to see what players would do. Continue with gold, adapt gems, barter trade? Initially gold and gems make sense but they are infinite, opposite of very limited supply in real life, so they value would constantly fall down. I would see it as really interesting experiment.


Or less value than broken swords. They would had no use, no currency sink and only infinite inflation.

True, if you have the exp loot on 5x or something like that. If you make everything more expensive and lower the exp loot = No big inflation. Also you sell the items cheap to npcs but it would be more expensive to sell them to players.

 

[Gall]

True, if you have the exp loot on 5x or something like that. If you make everything more expensive and lower the exp loot = No big inflation. Also you sell the items cheap to npcs but it would be more expensive to sell them to players.

If there are enough new players wanting to buy them. If demand is low, prices will fall down sooner or later. As long as new players will need equipment there is demand. But if there are really few new players there will be lack of demand or its stagnancy and growth of supply. And one of fundamental law of economy says: If demand remains unchanged and supply increases, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
Keep in mind that npcs wont buy your loot here, so demand depends fully on players who don't have that piece of equipment right now. The more players level up really high, the lesser demand will be for lower level equipment, and after some time even for high level equipment, as most players will have needed equipment.
After applying that solution:

for the loot, i would just make the low lvl items harder to get, lowering the percentage that it will be looted.

to reduce inflation i would limit the supply, if for example people are getting rich by selling an object that is dropped a lot and is easy to sell i will reduce the percentage of the loot.
a way to reduce inflation also would be to put a fee for everytime you withdraw or deposit money from the bank, you pay a percentage for everytime you withdraw or deposit money.
also i would put a fee in the market also, but just for the seller.
im still thinking also more ways to reduce inflation

constant supply won't be big problem.

I wonder about implementing function which automatically diminishes drop rates with every item of type dropped, and slowly grows with time or depends on total number of items on server. This could ease management of loot economy.

 

[Ruhat]

If there are enough new players wanting to buy them. If demand is low, prices will fall down sooner or later. As long as new players will need equipment there is demand. But if there are really few new players there will be lack of demand or its stagnancy and growth of supply. And one of fundamental law of economy says: If demand remains unchanged and supply increases, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
Keep in mind that npcs wont buy your loot here, so demand depends fully on players who don't have that piece of equipment right now. The more players level up really high, the lesser demand will be for lower level equipment, and after some time even for high level equipment, as most players will have needed equipment.
After applying that solution:

constant supply won't be big problem.

I wonder about implementing function which automatically diminishes drop rates with every item of type dropped, and slowly grows with time or depends on total number of items on server. This could ease management of loot economy.

Haha damn, feels like i'm talking with an economics professor of some kind xD

But yeah, what you were saying about the demand and supply is really true.
But the way to get a higher demand and a higher supply there has to be many players online, if there are only 20-30 players, trading would become a pain in the ass, it would require one week for you to trade an item. In my opinion this theory would work out with +100 players.
This theory would be hard to put to reality because it would need adjustments all the time, for example changing loot rates for items, maybe one item would be very valuable and another not so valuable

One more thing, if you put a Paying/Donation system in the Server where you can pay with real money, expect to get many payments. But this could lead to a huge-mega inflation!
This would be a nice project to try out.