Gatekeeping

[Tofame]

There is a difference between helping a stranger and giving a stranger something youve worked on for days. Its better to teach than to give. Like with a fishing rod and a fish. What, giving a tool and then what? People who will get ready things wont have unique OT, is this not missing the point?

My excuse is often time, as it od excuse the majority uses.. however a stronger one is a lot of fake people lurking around. Scamms, leaks, toxicity happens here daily/weekly.

And Im writing it as most active helper on OTA with probably a close to few houndred times I helped there. (ex tho as I left)

 

[highsanta]

You all suckers searching someone to blame. There is no one to blame. "The community" is not entitled to have people working towards moving it ahead.

If there is not enough man power to keep things going, then there is not and that's it. If people want to do other things with their time that are not open source Tibia piracy, crying rivers here won't change much.


Overflowing levels of hypocrisy. You can't point fingers like you did and cry "I don't have time". Other people should do more, but you? You don't have time.

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2024

I need to add that the flawed perception that "OtLand would be a better place if there was no greddy" is hard braindead thought. If all these people WORKING on otserv stuff weren't here, they wouldn't be involved in opensource instead, they would be working on something else not otserv related. You don't own those people time, you are not entitled to have those people transforming otland in the promised land you envision it being. They are not opensource involved and you shouldn't care less about what they are doing.

You want opensource otserv stuff moving ahead? Group up with like minded people and do it. Crying that other people are not into it and that you don't have time won't help ever.

I dont have time yet all my repositories on github public. Lol. Everything i paid for always was public

 

[Itutorial]

You guys make it out like an open sharing community is impossible lmfao you've allowed yourselves to be cucked so hard that you actually believe it. It's pathetic.

The whole "we're grown ups now" is a complete nonsense argument made by the very people responsible for the state of this community.
Maybe that argument would work if there was not an active and increasing threat to newcomers in this community. it's your own fault we are an ageing community. We don't need to be an ageing community, tibia and its niche is more popular than it has ever been.

It's just a straight up copium argument to avoid any sort of self reflection, accountability or responsibility for their nasty behaviour and it's bootlicking at best for those who are ignorant.


The same people telling us that their time is worth too much to contribute for free have spent the last 20 years absorbing everything the community has had to offer, tools, code, money, knowledge and time. Now they tell us THEIR time is worth too much? They are the worst leechers, their actions directly and negatively impact the whole community. It's a cringe fest of extremely selfish and fragile egos mixed in with a bunch of bootlickers.

It does not have to be this way but if these real leechers want to keep pushing this agenda then naturally so will the 'pirates' push and advance theirs.
You are not multi-billion dollar corporations so you will not be able to just shrug it off forever.

A lot of delusion in this. Tibia is not even close to as popular as it used to be. If it was this community would be more active. You sound like you need a shoulder to cry on with all that anger in your text. It is equivalent to the deluded babbling of a 40 y/o conspiracy theorist. If you have so much problem with the limited community left maybe you should find another hobby. The real copium is thinking everyone has an agenda to keep the little guy down. Your personal vendettas with people of the community doesn't mean the community is what you see. Maybe you should try fixing your attitude and you would get more help or whatever you are looking for.

 

[Peonso]

I dont have time yet all my repositories on github public. Lol. Everything i paid for always was public

I can flex that aswell, many stars, means nothing. Give us the links of the meaningful ones so I can point out where you are lacking with the otland community by not doing enough to move it foward. So I can demand more and tell what you should do with your time.

I'm feeling the white knight keyboard warrior vibes today, I need to save Otland by demanding strangers to do more. Next we raise the pitchforks and blame it all on kondra, what a deja vù.

 

[highsanta]

all I ever wanted to say is that we all base our knowledge on already free and open code.
either go into full sale mode and allow it within community or it actually wont grow honestly and properly unlike discords where all the $ is happening it would be also safer environment for buyers and sellers. shit opinion = no one will use your services.

I loved when he said I released peoples engines i actually set up engines for people from 0 from public repositories and give them introduction to the stuff so they can find all the important stuff easier and we have had plenty of successfull people running their first servers all by themselves.

 

[kubiczi123]

Have you ever CREATED something good that people want to use tho or are you just leeching everything and screech its not open source.
Compiling and setting up OTS was manageable while 10 years old and willing to read through tfs manual

 

[Silba]

A lot of delusion in this. Tibia is not even close to as popular as it used to be. If it was this community would be more active. You sound like you need a shoulder to cry on with all that anger in your text. It is equivalent to the deluded babbling of a 40 y/o conspiracy theorist. If you have so much problem with the limited community left maybe you should find another hobby. The real copium is thinking everyone has an agenda to keep the little guy down. Your personal vendettas with people of the community doesn't mean the community is what you see. Maybe you should try fixing your attitude and you would get more help or whatever you are looking for.

Oh no, a wild Ad Hominem appeared!

/yawn

 

[Night Wolf]

I need to add that the flawed perception that "OtLand would be a better place if there was no greddy" is hard braindead thought. If all these people WORKING on otserv stuff weren't here, they wouldn't be involved in opensource instead, they would be working on something else not otserv related. You don't own those people time, you are not entitled to have those people transforming otland in the promised land you envision it being. They are not opensource involved and you shouldn't care less about what they are doing.

There's a shit ton of projects happening outside of Otland, Canary being the biggest of them but there are at least a dozen worth mentioning.
Perhaps you should take his advice and reflect on your own actions too before rushing to reply

 

[Itutorial]

Oh no, a wild Ad Hominem appeared!

/yawn

I matched your energy.

 

[TibiCAM]

The people that never share anything, or help with anything, also use other people's FREE and OPEN SOURCE code.
They are hypocrites.
They use Remere's Map Editor. They use The Forgotten Server, or any distro.
They use the CipSoft files that were leaked.
Everything they ever managed to make, was because of other people giving it away for free.
OtLand has not been "open" for many years. There's a handful of people left that publish things for free.

I wonder what are people doing in an OPEN SOURCE community if they want to gatekeep everything? It's insane!

Even the server hardware they run (Linux) was made for free.

So the argument that "There is a difference between helping a stranger and giving a stranger something youve worked on for days" makes no sense!!! In the free and open source community, there's no difference. The whole point is to share things.

This is a fucking game forum. It's not like we're building rockets that will take us to Mars and everything here is worth billions of dollars. Tibia is dying and the only way to keep the game alive is with communities like this because CipSoft have failed, time and time again, to do anything right. And when this community gatekeeps everything, it is dead.

I remember browsing OtLand and OtFans back in 2007-2010. People shared so much stuff all day long. Maps they built, scripts they made, entire distros they made, etc. The game and the community was thriving. You'd think people would be successful enough IRL to not need money from a fucking 2D game in 2024. But here we are. People only gatekeep because they only want money. 30-40 year old people in this forum trying to get 50$ for a map or 20$ for a script. WTF is that? It's a few fucking dollars here and there. Get a real job if you need money. Open source software, especially old tibia stuff, should never ever be used for money. It's a GAME. I do not care if you live in country with no jobs. Then you can go to Upwork.com and find real freelance work, or even better, get a fulltime job remote. Don't ruin the open source Tibia communities with your shitty greed. Especially when you use tools that were released for free by others.

 

[highsanta]

that is the thing the more servers the more players only way to bring back large part of community is to get rest of the community creating.

 

[Tenzhiro]

It's both a "player" and a "developer" problem I think.. mainly the players.

I think it's the unending need for people to try to "create" something by piggybacking as much as possible on other people's work, it's a thing that gets worse with each generation, nobody acknowledges the work, time, and effort anymore, and are just plainly ungrateful for anything someone is working on, why would someone release something to this kind of audience? Like Bill Gates once said; lazy people will find the shortest way to solve a problem, and that is what the majority of people do, try to take the shortest way but not giving credit.

In my opinion it is totally up to any "career programmer" to release his work or not, being it to a closed group, or open to anyone, the older you get, the more you begin to understand that time is indeed money, spending hours solving problems, spending most often time away from things that really matters in someone's life like your actual job or your family, for what?

To a programmer who is still learning it is different, you will see often threads here from people that are learning and release everything they have for anyone to check and make it better, basically building a showcase/portfolio on this forum, so that in the future they have something to showoff already.

I do think the forum has become more of a showcase of products instead of a learning platform to create your own OTS/game, but it still is the stepping stone for many people that are trying to get into developing and it will continue to do so, it is really up to the people themselves to put effort into creating what they want on their own, and yes that requires a few disciplines, I wouldn't give the blame to any programmer that decides not to release their work to people they never had an acquaintance with if the community they release it to are not contributing themselves, but only a handful..

We all get older, there are very few to no young people starting to play Tibia or OTS again, there are countless other distractions (games) that they will give a chance above Tibia, thus remains a community of "adults" where most still act like they're in their teens.

In the end, I still consider OTLand to be a learning stage, not a stage where you can just download whatever you want for your server without doing much effort yourselves, that's just plain lazyness.. these kind of posts really disgusts me a bit, as it shows how far people have fallen, compared to ten years ago, mentalities are broken, and I doubt this will change in the future, no matter how many threads like these will be created.

I hope this thread gets closed soon as it doesn't add anything to the forum or it's goals.

 

[Tofame]

So the argument that "There is a difference between helping a stranger and giving a stranger something youve worked on for days" makes no sense!!! In the free and open source community, there's no difference. The whole point is to share things.

Yeah, I will still keep my opinion that its better to teach someone how to make something on their own, instead of giving it on a plate.
What about modifying the given thing then? What about further developing it afterwards? No knowledge to do that.

 

[highsanta]

It's both a "player" and a "developer" problem I think.. mainly the players.

I think it's the unending need for people to try to "create" something by piggybacking as much as possible on other people's work, it's a thing that gets worse with each generation, nobody acknowledges the work, time, and effort anymore, and are just plainly ungrateful for anything someone is working on, why would someone release something to this kind of audience? Like Bill Gates once said; lazy people will find the shortest way to solve a problem, and that is what the majority of people do, try to take the shortest way but not giving credit.

In my opinion it is totally up to any "career programmer" to release his work or not, being it to a closed group, or open to anyone, the older you get, the more you begin to understand that time is indeed money, spending hours solving problems, spending most often time away from things that really matters in someone's life like your actual job or your family, for what?

To a programmer who is still learning it is different, you will see often threads here from people that are learning and release everything they have for anyone to check and make it better, basically building a showcase/portfolio on this forum, so that in the future they have something to showoff already.

I do think the forum has become more of a showcase of products instead of a learning platform to create your own OTS/game, but it still is the stepping stone for many people that are trying to get into developing and it will continue to do so, it is really up to the people themselves to put effort into creating what they want on their own, and yes that requires a few disciplines, I wouldn't give the blame to any programmer that decides not to release their work to people they never had an acquaintance with if the community they release it to are not contributing themselves, but only a handful..

We all get older, there are very few to no young people starting to play Tibia or OTS again, there are countless other distractions (games) that they will give a chance above Tibia, thus remains a community of "adults" where most still act like they're in their teens.

In the end, I still consider OTLand to be a learning stage, not a stage where you can just download whatever you want for your server without doing much effort yourselves, that's just plain lazyness.. these kind of posts really disgusts me a bit, as it shows how far people have fallen, compared to ten years ago, mentalities are broken, and I doubt this will change in the future, no matter how many threads like these will be created.

I hope this thread gets closed soon as it doesn't add anything to the forum or it's goals.

if a server is good it will be plenty of time put into it but why waste it on already created things.

 

[oen432]

The people that never share anything, or help with anything, also use other people's FREE and OPEN SOURCE code.
They are hypocrites.
They use Remere's Map Editor. They use The Forgotten Server, or any distro.
They use the CipSoft files that were leaked.
Everything they ever managed to make, was because of other people giving it away for free.

I was waiting for someone to make this dumb argument.

Every car mechanic is a hypocrite! How dare they use tools they didn't make to fix cars they didn't make and charge money for it!

 

[TibiCAM]

Yeah, I will still keep my opinion that its better to teach someone how to make something on their own, instead of giving it on a plate.
What about modifying the given thing then? What about further developing it afterwards? No knowledge to do that.

There are studies that prove the opposite of what you just said. What you said is one of the most arguments things in these types of discussions - and they are always wrong. To see source code, is literally the best way for a programmer to learn new things. It not only teaches the one viewing the source code, but the programmer as well. It's called code reviewing.

You can live inside your bubble but your theory has been proven wrong already 3 decades ago. It's one of the most common misconceptions in programming, that "you do not learn unless you do it yourself". It's also hilarious and hypocritical that you come to OtLand and say that, because you are without doubt using someone else's tools here. Or did you make your own game client, your own map editor, your own engine, from scratch?

Realize how wrong, selfish and in fact stupid your argument is. I'm getting tired of seeing such crap in these communities. Please get a job or do something else if you have no interest in sharing both knowledge and code. It's quite literally the reason this community exists. Why do you even come here with such mindset?

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2024

I was waiting for someone to make this dumb argument.

Every car mechanic is a hypocrite! How dare they use tools they didn't make to fix cars they didn't make and charge money for it!

You're comparing car mechanics to an open source programming community? Really?! Haha!

Seriously, you're insane if you make a such comparison and fail to see how stupid that is. You clearly have no idea what free and open source software is about. It's the opposite of making closed source software. There are thousands, upon thousands, of places to sell software at. An open source community like OtLand is not one of them. Do you even understand what the "O" stands for? Please answer. Yes or no. Majority of the tools made in this community falls under the GNU 3.0 General Public License, in some cases the GNU 2.0 GPL as well. Do you understand what these licenses are about? Please answer. Yes or no.

You're actually insane. Or an enormous ugly nasty troll.

There's people in this forum using GPL 3.0 licensed software and then tries to close the source codes and charge people for it. Do you understand that it is a violation of the license? It's not how free and open source works. You may never under any circumstances use GPL 3.0 licensed code in your project and close its sources. I do not care what planet you're from, but we have morals and ethics at this place. Uncivilized leeches like yourself ought to be excluded from any discussions on forums like this.

I urge you to educate yourself on how free and open source software works. If you have no interest in doing that, and will keep encouraging people to close source code, then please leave this community. We do not want or need you here.

 

[highsanta]

Good one finally someone brought up the fact any code written is for software thats under GPL 3
every single tfs engine has that in their header file ever since yurots that information was there.

 

[TibiCAM]

If anyone is clueless about how GPL 3.0 or GPL 2.0 licenses work, then please spend 10 minutes of your life and read what it's about.

A Quick Guide to GPLv3 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation

www.gnu.org

If you come to a community, whose base software is all GPL 3.0 or GPL 2.0 licensed, and you try to charge people for it, and have no interest in changing your behavior, then you're not only a massive douchebag - but it's illegal and you can be prosecuted in court for it. Fortunately, programmers that develop these types of software (GPL 3.0 licensed for example) don't need to deal with you in court themselves. We can use the Free Software Foundation (FSF) and their lawyers for that. They're here to help us against people that violate such licenses, and you will never win in court. Nobody has.

I do not think anyone in OtLand has actually filed such a case, but I think it's about time we start doing that, to protect the software built by this community. Kudos to the rest of you and I welcome everyone to share their source code here, on Github and elsewhere. Obviously Tibia game files can not be licensed, they are copyrighted by CipSoft. But I'm talking about the game servers, the map editors, and all surrounding tools people use on a daily basis.

 

[oen432]

Bruh

 

[Bloodbringer]

Funny we call it "OT" but its far from being "Open" nowadays. Guess we'll have to start calling them "ATS" again? (Alternative Tibia Server)