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Spoofing or not?

Spoofing is not equivalent to fraud.

If someone login on your server with 500+ chars like a @itoxblade said this can be threated like a ddos. In almost every country in UE for DDOSing it's 2-8 years in jail. In France more, not sure but probably 5-10.

Just a simple unauthorised entering on someone's PC or server it's 0.5 to 2 years. If you used stolen ID or PW it can be up to 15 years.

If you are spoofing to steal data this is acrime too. Even if you are trying to configure spoofer but you didn't started spoofing yet.
 
Okey based on what you wrote in this topic, such behavior isn't inlegal only.

THIS IS A CRIMMINAL

In Polish law it's like a broking 15 sections of the criminal code. (Not sure google translator handled it properly). If you don't know how law works the simpliest explaination is: over 25 years in jail. European law is even more brutal for electronic crime and US is again even more, where you can get lifetime jail for this.

Stealing data, unauthorized entering to the server, hacking, ddosing, making anything to make service worse... I'm able to write much more things.

Also isn't hard to detect crimminals, even if they are using proxies, vpn and other fake-privacy things.
Ok, now we all should go to jail because of using Cipsoft's graphics.
 
Ok, now we all should go to jail because of using Cipsoft's graphics.
That's a civil thing not a criminal thing. All Cipsoft can do is, is to sue you for using unlicnesed content.
Similar is with official Tibia client. You have license only for using it to connect to the official servers. You won't go to the jail if you use it to connect to OTS. But if you are using bots to play on official Tibia and you, as a single person are using thousands of bots the negative effects of this can be threat like a crime. There are already many legal clauses what can be used here. There are also many legal Act projects what may go live in the next 5 years what will make any kind of using 3rd party programs in online games a crime, like a botting, cheating, spamming etc. So, botters have only some years left before they will have to stop.

Don't know where are you come from guys, but all you should take a peek at europa lex, but if you are from US maybe you can get free info from hotline where to look for upcomming legal Act and already used Acts. I have no idea how about Brazil, just ask a local lawer.
 
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this can be threated like a ddos

you're missing the point here

- no service was denied (everybody was able to play, read what ddos is)

- the chars were likely owned by server owner so he is unlikely to sue himself lol. Following that logic, any kind of stress tests done by server owner would be illegal

- the accounts he used technically belonged to him unless someone can prove ownership somehow (despite having to agree to terms and conditions and privacy policy, they aren't provided when creating an account on their site) so idk if it can count as acc stealing

Now there is another problem:

if server owner commited a fraud (spoofed online count, assuming it's punishable by law which I'm not sure about), which law does apply to him? international laws for sure, but locally... server location or server owner home law?
 
you're missing the point here

- no service was denied (everybody was able to play, read what ddos is)

- the chars were likely owned by server owner so he is unlikely to sue himself lol. Following that logic, any kind of stress tests done by server owner would be illegal

- the accounts he used technically belonged to him unless someone can prove ownership somehow (despite having to agree to terms and conditions and privacy policy, they aren't provided when creating an account on their site) so idk if it can count as acc stealing

You quoted a part of my msg without reading past posts.
tons of old accounts which they use to hack and spam advertise their servers on other servers, and in some cases they have even attacked other servers by logging in 500+ accounts at same time u can see this in old original tibia thread

pangeria files are also stolen from @kito2

this is also why i recommend noone to use otclientv8, its made by kondra which is a big developer for them. god only knows what he has added in his hidden sources
Okey based on what you wrote in this topic...
You trought that I was answering for 1st post. And maybe bcouse of that you mistakely just cutted it out of context.

if server owner commited a fraud (spoofed online count, assuming it's punishable by law which I'm not sure about), which law does apply to him? international laws for sure, but locally... server location or server owner home law?

Answering to your question: all.
If you are living in Poland, you have server in Germany and players from US. US law apply for connection between your players and your server. If you are doing something inlegal, US can ban your game in thier country. If you commite a crime, you are instantly a criminal in Poland too. Germany law apply for server, it's provider, owner, you becouse you borrow it, connection between US player and server, connection between server and you. If you are in Poland then polish law apply for you, Germany law, international law and UE law too. If you commite a crime on any place, home, server, players etc then you are a crimminal in almost every place on Earth. Doing any kind of crime in any kind of country makes you a criminal in almost every place where the same thing is a crime too.

The most important thing is to understand what's the difference between fraud, crime and inlegal.

Inlegal is something what is against any kind of law, rules, policy etc. Like changing amount of real players online and then publishing it on otservlist. Is this Pangeria doing? It's against the otservlist rules. At this point you can be banned there. In some critical situations even sued. Ex. you added your OTS from different account 10000 times and owner wasn't able to keep banning them one by one and annoyed otservlist owner too much etc.

Crime is agains a criminal law, and for that you will go to the jail in most of cases. Crimes have two types one are private, which are prosecuted on complaint and second are prosecuted ex officio. DDoS is a crime. If you DDoS something big which is based on public safety ex news portal then it will be prosecuted ex officio. Stealing data is a crime. Unauthorized connecting to the server is a crime. Using someone's password to enter his account is the same as stealing personality, which is a crime, in this case if the victim isn't a public person then this is prosecuted on complaint. If you spoof for example CallerID, phone number, email etc you may go to the jail. Spoofing is against criminal law in almost every country. UE, US, Ger, Brazil, Poland, Sweden and much more. In this case where you are spoofing own info on own server this offense may be prosecuted on player's complaint or otservlist owner.

Fraud is anykind of a scam. Some of frauds are legally allowed, actually they are not allowed but they are not inlegal. Words matter. And some kind of frauds are just a crime.

Someone in past posts wrote few such things. I just 'converted' them to how it looks from law-view. If you enter with 500 chars as a one person on brand new server, even if your server doesn't have any policy, rules etc this can be a crime, it's based on damage you do. But if owner of the server will see that server have a good popularity becouse he have all the time 500+ players he may decide to buy better hosting after 2-3 weeks. So, entering with 500 fake accounts controlled by one person in this case caused a damage. This can be a part for civil lawsuit. Or a crime prosecuted on complaint. Based on damage. If during that 2-3 week these 500 players caused any kind of damage in form of lags etc this can be threat like a crime.

You can sue anyone for anything. But you won't win everything. All what I wrote is a view from law point with law logic. People don't know the law. But you can easly remember this:

Any kind of inlegal behavior can be written in criminal law. If it's there, you may go to the jail. Sometimes no matter in which country you are.

PS:
I know polish person who got 4 years in jail for changing a phone number he was calling from.
 
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Really kids these days

they are already banned

? XDDDD Can you explain this?
Simple explaination:
he was calling to a friend from phone number 500500500, but his friend saw the call is from number 600600600. He after was offering it as a service.


Longer:
All systems are under high control from govermant and each ingerence into such things may alarm certain authorities. Sometimes when you are spoofing on web and you are using a internet from provider who is also providing his sevices for some important companies who are using high security hardware which are using highest possible known cryptography then that companies have to register such hardware in government authorities.
I'm working in company where we are selling physical gold and we have to use such things becouse international regulations require that. Probably similar things are using Google or Facebook to protect sensitive data transfered between servers. All of them we had to register in The Central Bureau of Investigation (in Poland it's Centralne Biuro Śledcze), Central Anticorruption Bureau (in Poland it's Centralne Biuro Antykorupcyjne), Bureau of National Security and probalby in Antiterrorist Bureau too. Also our company is on a list accesible by all countries. So all EU, US etc knows we have this hardware. Using such hardware w/o registering in proper way is a crime almost everywhere. If you not register it then you can be accused for spying, being a danger for national security etc. Where you can get 25y+ for that. Depending on what they think you were doing. Each time when something incorrect appears on network from our internet provider this hardware catches it and if this is a potentialy dungerous thing then it instantly sends it to the police. If you decide to spoof something on our network police will know it immidiately (in around 10 miliseconds).

Poland is one of the leaders in this security. They had to learn all that stuff to fight with criminals who have to use Poland as smuggling channel from east to west. Becouse of geographic location. Same for US, which have to fight with many kind of drug dealers, human trafficing, terrorists etc.

Moving back to that guy. He went to the jail for obstructing work of bureaus responsible for national security. This is what he did with spoofing caller id. This history was in national newpapers in Poland. Around 2009 year. Not sure, but it was right after global financial recession.

Guys, if you thing spoofing isn't something bad then you have to be totally stupid. I agree spoofing is a common thing, many people are doing it very often and they are not getting catch. But you don't know what may happen. If you spoofed yesterday then police may knock to your doors not tommorow but after 2-3 years. Same for DDoS and other activites. You don't know who is with you on local network or on network provider by your internet provider. There may be even a group of criminals and you bahavior becouse is a crime may be threat like you worked with them. That jokes may turn into indictment for being a part of organized criminal group.

I'm wrote this becouse education about hacking and law is equal to near zero!

Also in past 10 years there was alot of changes in law in UE and US. Before changes many of evidences were only accesible by doing a crime, so all courts have to discard such evidences and not accept them. Now authorities, police etc can get that evidece without bearking a law and even check anytime they want. Also new Acts speeded up time for informations. Sometimes when you did a crime in past, that crime expired before police got informations and evidence from providers. Now that process is speeded up to less then hour for local providers and to 1-2 days from 2y+ for providers from outside of country. There are still black points on our globe, that's why some people think most of hackers are from Russia. But even this changed.
 
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Simple explaination:
he was calling to a friend from phone number 500500500, but his friend saw the call is from number 600600600. He after was offering it as a service.


Longer:
All systems are under high control from govermant and each ingerence into such things may alarm certain authorities. Sometimes when you are spoofing on web and you are using a internet from provider who is also providing his sevices for some important companies who are using high security hardware which are using highest possible known cryptography then that companies have to register such hardware in government authorities.
I'm working in company where we are selling physical gold and we have to use such things becouse international regulations require that. Probably similar things are using Google or Facebook to protect sensitive data transfered between servers. All of them we had to register in The Central Bureau of Investigation (in Poland it's Centralne Biuro Śledcze), Central Anticorruption Bureau (in Poland it's Centralne Biuro Antykorupcyjne), Bureau of National Security and probalby in Antiterrorist Bureau too. Also our company is on a list accesible by all countries. So all EU, US etc knows we have this hardware. Using such hardware w/o registering in proper way is a crime almost everywhere. If you not register it then you can be accused for spying, being a danger for national security etc. Where you can get 25y+ for that. Depending on what they think you were doing. Each time when something incorrect appears on network from our internet provider this hardware catches it and if this is a potentialy dungerous thing then it instantly sends it to the police. If you decide to spoof something on our network police will know it immidiately (in around 10 miliseconds).

Poland is one of the leaders in this security. They had to learn all that stuff to fight with criminals who have to use Poland as smuggling channel from east to west. Becouse of geographic location. Same for US, which have to fight with many kind of drug dealers, human trafficing, terrorists etc.

Moving back to that guy. He went to the jail for obstructing work of bureaus responsible for national security. This is what he did with spoofing caller id. This history was in national newpapers in Poland. Around 2009 year. Not sure, but it was right after global financial recession.

Guys, if you thing spoofing isn't something bad then you have to be totally stupid. I agree spoofing is a common thing, many people are doing it very often and they are not getting catch. But you don't know what may happen. If you spoofed yesterday then police may knock to your doors not tommorow but after 2-3 years. Same for DDoS and other activites. You don't know who is with you on local network or on network provider by your internet provider. There may be even a group of criminals and you bahavior becouse is a crime may be threat like you worked with them. That jokes may turn into indictment for being a part of organized criminal group.

I'm wrote this becouse education about hacking and law is equal to near zero!

Also in past 10 years there was alot of changes in law in UE and US. Before changes many of evidences were only accesible by doing a crime, so all courts have to discard such evidences and not accept them. Now authorities, police etc can get that evidece without bearking a law and even check anytime they want. Also new Acts speeded up time for informations. Sometimes when you did a crime in past, that crime expired before police got informations and evidence from providers. Now that process is speeded up to less then hour for local providers and to 1-2 days from 2y+ for providers from outside of country. There are still black points on our globe, that's why some people think most of hackers are from Russia. But even this changed.
Sir calm down.
 
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