Sprites & Morality

[e.e]

@Peonso @e.e Aren't we going back to the the copyright laws thing a bit too much? I thought this discussion was about the morality rather than the legality (e.g whether it's moral to ban "sprite theft" but allow people that do the same to Cipsoft). You can base your laws on morality but vice versa isn't very smart – you will be stuck forever in the first system you implemented (e.g slavery is legal, so I will consider it moral and never see a need to change the law).

I strongly agree.
Although I don't think my arguments are based in law in the least.

 

[Peonso]

@Peonso @e.e Aren't we going back to the the copyright laws thing a bit too much? I thought this discussion was about the morality rather than the legality (e.g whether it's moral to ban "sprite theft" but allow people that do the same to Cipsoft). You can base your laws on morality but vice versa isn't very smart – you will be stuck forever in the first system you implemented (e.g slavery is legal, so I will consider it moral and never see a need to change the law).

That's depends on your scope, we discussing how laws should be or how we should behave regarding current laws? I thought it was the second case. And morality is subjective, we can go deep on philosophical discussions regarding that hahahahaha

You either steal or don't, whatever, but in my point of view applying double standards sux hard. You depersonalize one side, forget about the people involved, the work people put on it, the freelancers that worked for it, people that put passion on it, make some excuse about the money they make with it, or how they don't please you any more, and put in the other side your fellow otlander, poor people making small money, that shares your passion and most importantly do what you do, and say in one case a rule a apply, for the other it doesn't?

"Cipsoft already did or still does make huge profits"

"Indeed who knows if Cipsoft has even lost a penny of profit from what the OT community has done? Has it stolen any players from Real Tibia, maybe a few?, but you could easily argue the other way around too - it's equally possible imo. that people started playing Real Tibia by first playing OT, and that the OT community has kept a certain amount of interest in Tibia over the years, i.e. if there was no OT community, then perhaps all of us who play OT, some of us who may also play Real Tibia, may just have quit Tibia altogether and have played neither"

"Apparently people have tried to contact Cipsoft for licensing and have been denied/ignored. So indeed the OT community has tried to be legal and moral when it comes to Cipsoft, but Cipsoft hasn't been interested."

" [...]a company that already makes huge profits and that has ignored this community's plead for legal co-operation i.e. licensing"

That's all anecdotal, and if you disregard the parts you talk about freelancers there is nothing left. I think you agree with me that when you steal something you steal from the owner, and the freelancer is not the owner.

At one side, poor drudged freelancers making pocket change for food that do it for passion. At the other, huge profit company without people (note you never talked about the people working there), if it's not a storytelling for painting someone as the villain I don't know what it is.

Nothing about the Piracy Movement or the Opposition to copyright apply here. Piracy Movement is about entry barrier for experiencing content, it's about free information, it's never about using others work to profit.

The owners of stolen sprites would be at no loss because according to you "Indeed who knows if [sprite owners] has even lost a penny of profit from what the OT community has done? Has it stolen any players from [sprite owners], maybe a few?, but you could easily argue the other way around too - it's equally possible imo." Or that only applies to CipSoft for some reason?

Maybe you should've opened your post up with that question instead (ignoring the fact that you're asking it pretty much in the most disrespectful way possible lmao, but I don't mind since it doesn't compare to the rest of your shitty post) of opening up with all of this randomass inflammatory accusatory bullshit if you're not aware that there's been an alleged previous effort of some people in this community to get licensing from Cipsoft, since a large part of my argument was based (explicitly) on that.

You don't mind but you focused only on how I presented it. The point is really hard to believe, makes no sense, and even if it happened, it's not an argument for your point. Mind you sharing what were you talking about?

And how CipSoft refusing to giving people right to use it's copyrighted content by whatever terms gives people the right to do something with it (assuming that crazy thing even happened)?

That's related to the point above, let's say people really asked CipSoft permission, then they said "no", what if? Now they should be allowed to use the copyrighted content? It's just a matter of asking, whatever the answer?

 

[e.e]

That's all anecdotal,

: Feed me; I intentionally provoke people, divert threads and spew bullshit to try to squeeze as much information out of people because I'm dumb, useless and can't read or learn anything on my own, and once people are tired of me and ignore me I win the argument ha ha ha I'm so smart ha ha!

Have it your way @Peonso.

 

[Peonso]

: Feed me; I intentionally provoke people, divert threads and spew bullshit to try to squeeze as much information out of people because I'm dumb, useless and can't read or learn anything on my own, and once people are tired of me and ignore me I win the argument ha ha ha I'm so smart ha ha!

Have it your way @Peonso.

C'mon dude, it's a discussion forum, people discuss things, people were discussing things, you quoted me and addressed my point. I should agree with you else you go mad?

Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia

Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine. Other anecdotal evidence, however, does not qualify as scientific evidence, because its nature prevents it from being investigated by the scientific method.

 

[Homeslice]

How is stealing from cipsoft any different than stealing from someone who creates their own sprites? To argue that it's not the same thing is complete nonsense, stealing is stealing.

Differences:
1. Cipsoft is a multi-million dollar company and OT sprite creators make shit in comparison.
2. The Cipsoft Client & Sprites were the original sprites used for OTs. The status-quo and only complete/free option.
3. The OT community should help eachother, not back-stab at any opportunity. If X sprites are worth something trade or buy them.

Also, Legality means nothing unless people start getting sued, so its fairly irrelevant.

Tl;dr
Don't be an asshole