What do you want to develop?

[Nekiro]

Are we talking about empty talk or want to change anything this time? It's great that you have ideas, but we are seeing similar threads dozen of times and yet nothing changes.
Having config options for everything is just delusional, if you aren't a developer you got no perspective of how hard this is actually to do and how messy the code gets.
As long as you are not getting administration (code owners on github) into the topic, you can only fork or create new forgottenserver and start working on it.
I would advise anyone that want a change to just start their fork and actually try to keep it alive and maintain it, because all I see is the talk about how bad tfs is maintainted and how dead it is, just try to maintain a similar project yourself and keep it decent quality.
Funny enough most of the people that are commenting on the state of tfs never donated a line of code.

If anyone care about my opinion here it is:
I don't think the move to higher protocol was a good thing, while just bumping it up to certain client and keeping it there is okay. I wouldn't bother with implementing anything other than protocol to just support this version. TFS has lots of "design" flaws or just in general bad/old code.
Manual reference counting, raw pointers being problematic in some places (causing undefined behaviour), hidden crashes (ex dropping spear on ground while getting kicked out), memory leaks in (bad) npc system, poor/missing logging system, bad monster AI, optional helpful features like metrics support, there is lots to do just in the core to keep the code more "modern".

I view tfs as the "skeleton" to do your thing on, it should be the working base with minimal features, stable and working, no cip features, because they are useless if you don't need them or if you need them spin off a second repository or special branch for all the cip features (I don't think there is enough contributors).
Personally I did not fork the repo once since the transition to client 12.x. I just can't bother to find a proper client and spin up a login server just to login to tfs.
Also moving to newer protocol without even having tools to edit the new appearances sounds stupid.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Having config options for everything is just delusional, if you aren't a developer you got no perspective of how hard this is actually to do and how messy the code gets.

Funny enough most of the people that are commenting on the state of tfs never donated a line of code.

Here we go again. I should have started with this: the sick conviction of "developers" that only a programmer can be a part of a project like this, and the others are just leechers that only talk and demand and their talk is just delusional dreaming is so wrong. This attitude is so toxic and wrong.

Like... I don't even know why some of the people contributing are/were involved in open source project like this, if they spit venom on people that are using this free software and not contributing to the code. Well, as I did not contribute to the code (even though I spent a little time in improving TFS in other ways), I am out of the discussion.

 

[frida22]

tfs needs to become the modern server v8, get leaked by josh wife and then we can make a roblox out of tibia.

 

[Codinablack]

Having config options for everything is just delusional, if you aren't a developer you got no perspective of how hard this is actually to do and how messy the code gets.

Its actually not hard at all to add a variable that can be changed at runtime. Not even the least bit. Messy, perhaps, difficult, absolutely not! In fact, that is pretty much all programming is, variables and logic.

As long as you are not getting administration (code owners on github) into the topic, you can only fork or create new forgottenserver and start working on it.

I don't understand this statement in the least. You say that unless someone owns a repo on github, and are in this topic (which if you look at the voters you will see lots of "Devs" voting), then nothing will happen of it, and then suggest people just fork tfs and start working on it.... At that point they would then become a "code owner on github" right?

I spent years of my life in this community (in and out, off and on) and I was always intimidated by the source code, and for no reason it turns out. The problem was the self-righteous making it out to be the hell of all hells, and that you better have your obol for the ferryman or you are fucked, but in reality it's actually not that difficult, especially true with "modern" c++ vs c++11. So sorry if I don't find this statement very conducive. It only takes a bit of will power to start making big boy changes to TFS. Just look at how badass @zbizu became, and all the work he has done, since he decided to just go for it! This is the kind of attitude we should be encouraging, not putting down.

It's great that you have ideas, but we are seeing similar threads dozen of times and yet nothing changes.

Please point me to where they are already having this conversation, because I did my due diligence in searching the discussion board for this topic and found nothing, but concede it is very possible I used keywords that didn't yield as effective results as I wished.

because all I see is the talk about how bad tfs is maintainted and how dead it is

I have done my best to try to steer the conversation away from such.

I view tfs as the "skeleton" to do your thing on, it should be the working base with minimal features, stable and working, no cip features, because they are useless if you don't need them

100 percent agreed! I think many who have posted here also share this view. This concept at its core is one of the things I think could bring about change, we spent so much time trying to make the runes and items, the actions, the movements, all those things to imitate and duplicate real cibia features, when it would be better to leave it as "bare bones" as possible with a few "example scripts" to get started with that a dev could play with and build upon.

Are we talking about empty talk or want to change anything this time?

I honestly don't know? It really depends on many things, but this is the discussion board, and I intend to use it as such to get a better understanding of what the people really want.

Personally I did not fork the repo once since the transition to client 12.x. I just can't bother to find a proper client and spin up a login server just to login to tfs.

I am actually working on this silently at home, not in this very moment, but definitely going through the process myself to try to get a test server up and running and a client to be able to login to it. Once I have accomplished this, any changes that need to be made to either TFS or OTC, or both, I will submit via PR, but I suspect it won't be needed... I very much suspect that most other devs did exactly like me, and when they saw the change, they didn't bother to go through all the work that would be needed to be able to login, especially if no one knew for sure it would even work in the end.

I will share a tutorial, where I used the main branch's source, and go from nothing to fully working ot for testing, and will hopefully have that ready for everyone this weekend.

This attitude is so toxic and wrong.

I 100 percent agree with you. I would like to say though, that it's not so cut and dry... being on the other side of things, constantly pouring your soul into things for unappreciative cry-babies <-- yes I went there, no this isn't directed at you --> really wears one down, and can make a person bitter towards the people they were intended to be helpful for in the first place.

Take into consideration that without @Nekiro , all the "retro" guys would still be using shitty ass 0.3.6 or 0.4. He has done an exhaustive amount of things for this community, and when you have done as much as he has, how do you not become disappointed as well with the lack of progression? It is easy to blame the ones who are on here asking for this, wishing for that, but never writting any code or putting forth real effort to see this come to fruition.

Well, as I did not contribute to the code (even though I spent a little time in improving TFS in other ways), I am out of the discussion.

Don't let others dictate what you can and can't do, or what you should and shouldn't do, or even what you do or don't do.

This is my discussion, and it is for ANYONE WHO WANTS TO MAKE AN OT SERVER. Not just for those who can read and write in C++.
So stick around for awhile, it might get interesting

 

[Nekiro]

Its actually not hard at all to add a variable that can be changed at runtime. Not even the least bit. Messy, perhaps, difficult, absolutely not! In fact, that is pretty much all programming is, variables and logic.

Yeah not really, with every single "condition variable" there is a following code to support that condition, this enlarges the code base quite a bit and single change can break several conditional codes (unless you want to check every single scenario with every edit you do, gl with that though), similar to use of macro's in c++.

I don't understand this statement in the least. You say that unless someone owns a repo on github, and are in this topic (which if you look at the voters you will see lots of "Devs" voting), then nothing will happen of it, and then suggest people just fork tfs and start working on it.... At that point they would then become a "code owner on github" right?

I'm just stating that if tfs code owners think differently or aren't reading these threads, nothing will change. They decided to move into new protocol direction and I doubt anything will change with that.
The easiest possible way to start the change is start your own repository.

 

[Codinablack]

unless you want to check every single scenario with every edit you do

This is just time spent. It's not really "hard" to do. IMO it should be being done anyways, everytime you make any changes of a value into a variable or otherwise alter the use of a variable, you should check everywhere it is used, and you should not only look it over extensively, but also test. Yes, this ends up being a lot of work, but for the most part it isn't difficult to do work.

The easiest possible way to start the change is start your own repository.

I couldn't agree more!

But before I just hop right in and start yet another project, I wanted to make sure it would be appreciated, wanted/desired, or even just used.
It helps to build support for such a thing... and as a developer, I would say it even raises ones spirits or motivations to see many like minded people discussing the same dream

this enlarges the code base quite a bit and single change can break several conditional codes

I think fears like this are one of the things that limit and hold back progression. Having extra lines doing conditional checks a few dozen places throughout the code doesn't really hurt anything, especially not with the compiler and its infinite wisdom doing optimizations at compile time.

Take a look at the repositories on github that progress at a constant rate and the one thing they all have in common is that they all make MANY commits each day. Take godot for example, yesterday alone they had over 30 commits. Did anything in there break something? Likely. Was every single line of code extensively tested before being merged. Not-Likely! Did that stop them? No.

A good versioning system and plan I think would do wonders on progression! I think we could even do with a little bit of lightening up on the "requirements" for a PR, and especially on what we consider "Ready" for merging.

Its a circle, no one is testing the changes being done because there isn't any serious level progression... but there isn't any serious level progression as we are still waiting on tests to be done for changes already proposed or even merged already....

Maybe its time to break the cycle? Maybe we need a new approach?

Maybe we just need a few people dedicated to a cause... Idk, but I definitely want to find out!

 

[bpawel10]

everytime you make any changes of a value into a variable or otherwise alter the use of a variable, you should check everywhere it is used, and you should not only look it over extensively, but also test

no one is testing the changes being done because there isn't any serious level progression... but there isn't any serious level progression as we are still waiting on tests to be done for changes already proposed or even merged already

If only there were tools for automated tests...

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This is just time spent. It's not really "hard" to do. IMO it should be being done anyways, everytime you make any changes of a value into a variable or otherwise alter the use of a variable, you should check everywhere it is used, and you should not only look it over extensively, but also test. Yes, this ends up being a lot of work, but for the most part it isn't difficult to do work.



I couldn't agree more!

But before I just hop right in and start yet another project, I wanted to make sure it would be appreciated, wanted/desired, or even just used.
It helps to build support for such a thing... and as a developer, I would say it even raises ones spirits or motivations to see many like minded people discussing the same dream



I think fears like this are one of the things that limit and hold back progression. Having extra lines doing conditional checks a few dozen places throughout the code doesn't really hurt anything, especially not with the compiler and its infinite wisdom doing optimizations at compile time.

Take a look at the repositories on github that progress at a constant rate and the one thing they all have in common is that they all make MANY commits each day. Take godot for example, yesterday alone they had over 30 commits. Did anything in there break something? Likely. Was every single line of code extensively tested before being merged. Not-Likely! Did that stop them? No.

A good versioning system and plan I think would do wonders on progression! I think we could even do with a little bit of lightening up on the "requirements" for a PR, and especially on what we consider "Ready" for merging.

Its a circle, no one is testing the changes being done because there isn't any serious level progression... but there isn't any serious level progression as we are still waiting on tests to be done for changes already proposed or even merged already....

Maybe its time to break the cycle? Maybe we need a new approach?

Maybe we just need a few people dedicated to a cause... Idk, but I definitely want to find out!

I just wanted to share, that I really appreciate your positive approach together with the motivation! I guess this is essential for pushing things forward.

 

[Codinablack]

I just wanted to share, that I really appreciate your positive approach together with the motivation! I guess this is essential for pushing things forward.

I am glad you noticed!

This is mainly a shameless bump, as this thread has disappeared and its started to go stale. There are limited days on the poll, so I just wanted to make sure this makes it back to being seen by those who haven't voted yet, before the poll closes.

The results here show that many of the devs who are still around on otland, want what many of us have always wanted. A polymorphic Top-Down engine, that could be easily made into tibia, but could also be just as easily made into something not tibia, or never seen before. Thank you all for voting! I am very happy to know we are legion