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What is allowed and what isn't allowed on otland?

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Source

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Just curious, is Patreon allowed for everyone? What about bounties for OT software other than TFS? Are "reverse bounties" allowed, such as asking for x amount to release an open source fix to some OT software?

I'm also really curious about your rules on websites in signatures since my signature has been cleared 2-3 times now even though I'm not linking to anything commercial or that accepts trading of any kind.
Your rules don't seem to say anything against it, it basically says links to non-commercial websites are allowed in signatures, and even Mark himself said back in the days when he was still active that otland doesn't care about competition and won't censor anyone for competition, see his post here: Complaint - Advertisement thread deleted? (https://otland.net/threads/advertisement-thread-deleted.223318/#post-2146107)
So why did all of my threads get deleted and signature cleared, even the thread to just my discord server, when there's nothing commercial on the discord server or any of my websites?
Has otland changed its stance, and all forms of "competition" i.e. other forums is no longer allowed? Kinda sounds like a recipe for totalitarianism if nobody's allowed to advertise their discord or websites anymore?

PS: Tried taking it up in PMs, never got an answer about Mark's post and otland's official stance on this vs a private stance only taken against some people in private.
 
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Kaspar

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A few select of you are eager to jump on the bandwagon of hate, as soon as you can spot it. Like there is nothing else going on in your lives that are of more importance. I'm growing quite tired of seeing the same names over and over...

We cannot and we wont list every single rule that exist on this forum. It's counterproductive. It will be of more confusion than of guidance.
If you learn that something is not allowed, by receiving a warning message, then there is nothing more to it. I cannot comprehend why this fact is so hard to understand.
There is no point coming with faux naif questions when some rules demand a certain coyness. Each situation differs from another. The user got it explained to him as to why his forum advertisement was not OK.
Even so, if you are adamant about referring to the rules, then you should read this part, below:
"[...] Website advertisement, as in creating a thread with the intention to advertise another website is not allowed. [...]"

Still not clear? Either way, that's all the attention you'll ever get from my part.
 

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4. Advertising:
You are allowed to advertise your Open Tibia server only in the Advertisement board. Website advertisement, as in creating a thread with the intention to advertise another website is not allowed. You are free to link to websites in your signature though, as long as it doesn't contain content that we don't allow on OTLand.
He broke part about advertising in thread, what about signatures? Anyway I have seen a lot of topics about some FB groups or Discord servers and they were not deleted... and the whole point was just to promote/advertise something.

A few select of you are eager to jump on the bandwagon of hate, as soon as you can spot it. Like there is nothing else going on in your lives that are of more importance. I'm growing quite tired of seeing the same names over and over...
Huh I guess its better to abandon this forum or stop talking at all. Forum works best without any posts and activity yea? Also I think that writing a post which takes like 30 sec isnt really a big part of users lives. I'm also quite sure that users are tired too of seeing same names of mods being incompetent and rude.
 

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@Kaspar I'm not 100% sure but those of us that helped found otland should have a say... With that being said I understand both sides here... But you made a statement that didn't correct anything in the eyes of the users. You should have just publicly said what he has done, and what the punishment was... Also about stating the rules, these should always be available to the public... There is no reason to keep them amongst the group. No hate here as I rarely come around anymore, but this is something that should be addressed.
 
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A few select of you are eager to jump on the bandwagon of hate, as soon as you can spot it.
Why are questions considered "bandwagon of hate" now? That's part of the issue here. For the most part, whenever anyone's angry at the mods here, it's actually because many of you do things like punish/make infractions without an explanation, then act defensive whenever we ask what we've actually done, since the rules often aren't clear, and you act like we've done something wrong or literally "hateful" in your own words here just by asking a question about it.

Like there is nothing else going on in your lives that are of more importance.
How is this not hateful btw? Your statement here is literally a broad personal attack on everyone that ask questions or has some kind of a disagreement with staff's conduct, lol.

We cannot and we wont list every single rule that exist on this forum. It's counterproductive. It will be of more confusion than of guidance.
If you learn that something is not allowed, by receiving a warning message, then there is nothing more to it. I cannot comprehend why this fact is so hard to understand.
You know what's problematic about this though, right? You're literally defining authoritarian totalitarianism here: blindly listen and obey the authorities, there are no official rules or they don't really matter, just do as your told and keep your mouth shut when we tell you to.

Each situation differs from another. The user got it explained to him as to why his forum advertisement was not OK.
I didn't get explained why at all, wanna know what I got? Here:


Even so, if you are adamant about referring to the rules, then you should read this part, below:
That's fine, it explains the first infraction, but it doesn't explain why my discord thread was deleted (has anyone else's discord thread gotten deleted? why are most discord threads not deleted?) and why my signature even to my portfolio website was cleared 3 times when it says in the rules that linking to websites in your signature is allowed.
 

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A few select of you are eager to jump on the bandwagon of hate, as soon as you can spot it. Like there is nothing else going on in your lives that are of more importance. I'm growing quite tired of seeing the same names over and over...

We cannot and we wont list every single rule that exist on this forum. It's counterproductive. It will be of more confusion than of guidance.
If you learn that something is not allowed, by receiving a warning message, then there is nothing more to it. I cannot comprehend why this fact is so hard to understand.
There is no point coming with faux naif questions when some rules demand a certain coyness. Each situation differs from another. The user got it explained to him as to why his forum advertisement was not OK.
Even so, if you are adamant about referring to the rules, then you should read this part, below:


Still not clear? Either way, that's all the attention you'll ever get from my part.
No, it's a forum which provides a platform for discussion. I have no desire to be a member of the community which was "advertised", I have a lot going on in my personal life that is important but for you to judge my personal life based on what I write on a forum is pathetic.

Actually, what's counterproductive is not having something like that listed on the forums, since if 10 people do it, you'll then inform those 10 people, a month later, the same situation occurs? Or am I missing something here? Since this specific topic has been against the rules since the dawn of Otland, why isn't this in the rules to prevent things like this ever occurring?

It's not hard to understand, what's hard to understand is why Otland staff have lack of communication. Half the global moderators are not even a part of discussions on Otland. The Administrators do not even post updates or announcements anymore (there was an update for Xenforo a couple of weeks back, right? The forums were down, right?). I mean, I even expected an official announcement for Slavi, a staff member at Otland (may he rest in peace), for the community to pay their respects, but nothing was posted and instead, the community flooded one of his opened threads.

No one is looking for your attention, don't flatter yourself. We're looking for guidance in the community you manage. It's part of your responsibility as a Global Moderator to address community concerns, if you don't do that, then why be a Global Moderator?

I have to hand it to you, though, since you're the only staff member who can be bothered to actually post anything here.
 

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I agree that maybe "implied rules" should be written out since this is why there is confusion. No need for the back and fourth with an "US and Them" mentality though... from both sides. The forum is about collaborating so maybe as 'staff' we should take more note of what the community are saying and help make the rules and guidelines clearer if that's what is needed.
 

Kaspar

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I'll try to clarify the rules for you.
Website advertisement, as in creating a thread with the intention to advertise another website is not allowed.
Clarification: We don't allow advertisement of another website here on OTLand.
Linking to another website that has valuable information and is relevant to the topic of the thread, without the intention of advertising it, is however allowed. I.e linking to Tibia.com when referring to something related to Tibia.

You are free to link to websites in your signature though, as long as it doesn't contain content that we don't allow on OTLand.
Clarification: You are indeed free to link signatures, unless you're not breaking the rules. Advertising your website in your signature (cover it up by a portfolio/Discord link that leads to a link with your website doesn't really matter (direct or indirect advertisement) - your intentions are very clear), is not allowed since you break the rule at the top of this post. Emphasis on your intention. It is very important.

The rules are pretty clear to me. And you're not including everything that got explained to you in PMs. You've been told exactly what I've said.
As I mentioned earlier, this "problem" isn't a problem since it almost never occurs. But suddenly you all jump in acting like it's such a big issue. If you don't like it here then you are more than welcome to leave, instead of trolling and demanding rules for everything.

If you were working in a store, and you would have a rule that say: "No pets inside the store.". Imagine then that a man comes in with a wild bird. You tell him that the bird is not allowed in the store, and you refer to the rules. The man then says "Hey it's not a pet, it's a wild animal -- so it's allowed". Then you force him out of the store, and the man is super upset and is crying about the rules, and tells everyone how he got treated so unfairly. When his intention was just to mess with the store owners and employees.
However, your store then decide to change the rules to "No animals allowed." since the rules apparently "weren't clear enough". Suddenly you start thinking about what "animals" mean. Humans are animals. Now not a single human being is allowed into the store, just because of a naive person wanting to mess with the store. My point is, no matter what rules we have, there will always be people (or trolls actually) trying to bypass them or mess with the definitions to ruin it for other people. If you were genuinly upset, then we would know. You're not though.
If we could define rules that are flawless then there would be no need of having a human interpretation of any posts.

About the fact that I mention that you must have nothing else important going on in your lives, I simply meant that the discussion is pointless. It wasn't a personal attack against anyone, and if you're offended then I do apologize for it.
I'm just annoyed by the hypocrisy when I know that you're not really caring about this at all, you just want to flame this forum because you created your own forum. So why not stir up some drama here?
I say this because you've posted stuff like: "You're really deeply into homogenous sodomy, aren't you. Like really deep. Gobble gobble."
Your post history tells me that you're very fond of having arguments with people, and the one who stays in the argument the longest win. I am out of this argument so if you wish to get more answers or discuss this further with me, I won't answer. Quote and complain about it how much you want.
Just remember that we're doing this voluntarily, and if you think you can do a better job then feel free to apply for a position when one is opened. Or perhaps run your own website better than us. As your sole intention is, already. :)
 
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@Kaspar
You know what's really ironic? Your earlier quote:
A few select of you are eager to jump on the bandwagon of hate, as soon as you can spot it. Like there is nothing else going on in your lives that are of more importance.
Look at your latest post. You went through all my 50 posts to find the ONE post MONTHS ago where I made fun of Peonso because he was acting outrageously and was trolling harder than anyone else in that thread, and try to draw me as some kind of evil mastermind twisting my moustache and tricking kids into my car with candy. You're insane dude.
Btw I actually added the link to my website on my portofolio after my signature was cleared the 2nd time, because I thought if you guys are gonna try to censor me like this, without even clarifying what I've done wrong, I'm gonna fight back...
This is the problem with paranoia, you create enemies where enemies didn't exist, making monsters out of shadows and believing they're real until they become real.

The screenshot I uploaded is the first and main/initial message I got after violating a rule I didn't even know I had violated, it was supposed to be the "explanation" for what I've done wrong and caused me an infraction, if I hadn't asked more about it I wouldn't have known anything at all, if you want me to upload the entire conversation I'm fine with doing that.

You can't guess people intentions btw. If I were to try to guess your intentions, I'd infer you're a paranoid psychopath. Does that sound fair? Should we judge people that easily?

A lot of people disagree with you about this not being a problem, but go ahead, keep putting your fingers in your ears and pretend it isn't a problem if you want to.

I don't mind leaving if you want me to, but I'll make sure to leave with a bang if I'm gonna be made an enemy like this over nothing.
Like I said before this isn't yours or otland staff's community, this is all of ours community.

Asking questions = demanding rules, nice interpretation.

Not sure if there's any point reading your post further when you assume the worst line after line after line after line, that's not a conversation, it's an invitation to hostility/fighting, I'm not gonna bite that hook, I'm just gonne flip you off if gets that far. :)

Btw, why would I make a website, install 10 different wiki software looking for solutions, creating websites, sharing doxygen documentation of otclient, trying to push PRs to otclient (first was accepted, second one was declined with a very brief/kinda insufficient explanation so I stopped trying, doesn't seem like otclient maintainers really want any change to otclient including critical bug fixes), if my "goal was just to troll" and "I don't care about anything". Where does these assumptions of yours come from? Sounds like you just assume the worst of everyone that disagrees with you or your friends, and that's just tribalism man.

Please, could you point out even a single other post where I'm "picking a fight with someone" other than mocking Peonso this one time in response to some outrageous shit he was saying about Night Wolf not having any expertise or not being a valid authority, making the case that ANY appeal to authority at all is an "argument from authority" fallacy, where you guys btw also censored one of my posts, literally removing links to WIKIPEDIA without an explanation? :rolleyes:
Here's the link to the moderator-edited post where my links to wikipedia were removed, lol: Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site? (https://otland.net/threads/should-otland-open-new-otserverlist-site.272217/page-5#post-2622794)
Like at least 80% of my posts are short answers to people's questions with no hostility, hubris, or anything, just an open mind and my 5 cents... And what have you offered to this conversation other than personal insults and making boogeymen out of nothing?

About the application thing: You can't change a totalitarian system from within, at least without actual conspiracy (which I'm not gonna bother with, what a waste of time), on an open Internet it's much better to just move to a new platform without censorship.

As your sole intention is, already. :)
I detect sarcasm, but with no substance. Please do explain, what are my real intentions. Overthrowing OTLand with my covert and evil masterplans, like placing a link to my website in my portofolio?
This whole thing has actually been a scheme, hehehehehehe, you have fallen into one of my traps Mr Bond, and soon you shall perish! Are you happy now that you've made yet another RPG spectacle out of another thread about OTLand staff making wrongdoings while completely ignoring the underlying issues, like publicizing a list of rules that you enforce consistently across the board without making up rules or just punishing people on a whim with no explanation or rule specified?
 
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@OnTopic: I'm going to give my point of view, even if it's not worth a shit.
@Kaspar is right, he has a point; those rules are there to prevent the lose of people from OTLand, he is just protecting the community, imagine if everyone could come here and find "loopholes" in order to lure people from here to somewhere else, then we will get this problem regularly. And honestly the state of the otcommunity is already bad, dividing the community is not going to be good, having most stuff in OTland is good, this forum has proven to be the most stable and strong over the years, and im sure it will stay like that.

@Source You're free to create a new forum or wathever, and if you contribute original content there im sure some people will eventually find it, and it will grow, and you know that? Im all for that. But i'm personally not cool with cross-advertising, this is like joining in a 500+ server, and making a char called "Yourservername" in order to lure players to your OT, you are not advertising your server in the chat box but you know what your doing, im not ok with that.

Again, this is just my opinion, and ill always look for the best scenario for the overall community, luring users from one place to another like this is not cool, if you want new users post original content and people will eventually find you.
 

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For anyone wondering what is allowed and what isn't allowed on otland, I encourage you to carefully read the official rules of otland.

Keep in mind that some boards might also have special board rules applied to them, to get an idea what these board specific addendums and guidelines are, pay attention to the sticky threads in said board.

I understand that some of our rules might be a bit ambiguous and up to interpretation. Some common sense goes a long way, but I can also offer consultancy on rules should you wish to open a private conversation with me. This is a community that are concerned about other things than writing a massive specific rulebook nobody will bother to read.

A hot debate here seems to be in regards to the specifics of advertisement in a user profile or signature. We are more lenient towards advertisements in a users signature than etc creating a thread or posting about it in an existing thread. But this does not mean our signatures are lawless, and when it comes to advertisement there are some areas we are especially picky about due to bad past experience. Such as potential competing communities that does not contribute or benefit our community, especially if it elicit uneccesary drama.

It is my understanding that @Source has been warned and well informed by us that the website or community he is trying to advertise is not welcome here. If anyone else is curious about advertising a specific link, feel free to contact us and we can help evaluate it, should you be concerned its a bit in the grey-zone.
 
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