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Can people stop call it "DONATE"

Wtf :s
Has my English gotten worse or is it people having a real hard time understanding the language? I can't really see how people can misinterpret or doubt my posts, specially not the last one.


I misspelled the post a bit that I assume you're pointing at with selling rights, it means I'm working with the laws what you can and what you can't do with money in situations.

You just repeated what you said priorly, pretty much. Be more specific please. I'm sure "I'm working with the laws what you can and what you can't do with money in situations." has some kind of title.
 
Wtf :s
Has my English gotten worse or is it people having a real hard time understanding the language? I can't really see how people can misinterpret or doubt my posts, specially not the last one.




You just repeated what you said priorly, pretty much. Be more specific please. I'm sure "I'm working with the laws what you can and what you can't do with money in situations." has some kind of title.

It means I'm looking shit up that I need to know about during my work, was that more understandable then?
 
It means I'm looking shit up that I need to know about during my work, was that more understandable then?
Ah. You're a regular guy who knows how to check up information before doing something which might have legal consequences. Yeah, that has to be it as you aren't being more specific. You made it sound like you had some title and had some long education and shit.
 
When I ran a server I set up everything differently. Instead of "shop" I put "Use Points" or w.e. Instead of "Login to Buy" I used "Login to use your points."
Stuff like this is okay AFAIK. If you reward someone because they donated to you, you most likely have a greater chance of avoiding a law suit. Be smart, be safe.

Also, remember to set up a terms and agreements page stating that you're donating solely to support the server and you're not purchasing anything.
 
When I ran a server I set up everything differently. Instead of "shop" I put "Use Points" or w.e. Instead of "Login to Buy" I used "Login to use your points."
Stuff like this is okay AFAIK. If you reward someone because they donated to you, you most likely have a greater chance of avoiding a law suit. Be smart, be safe.

Also, remember to set up a terms and agreements page stating that you're donating solely to support the server and you're not purchasing anything.

"Donation" is required, but there is still question how to make it legal ^^
just tell me if there's still smth wrong
This agreement describes the terms on which [servername] offers you access to an account for being able to play on our server. By creating an account you accept the terms and conditions below and state that you are of full legal age in your country or have the permission of your parents to play this game.

You agree that the use of the software is at your sole risk. We provide the software, the game, and all other services "as is". We disclaim all warranties or conditions of any kind, expressed, implied or statutory, including without limitation the implied warranties of title, non-infringement, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose. We do not ensure continuous, error-free, secure or virus-free operation of the software or your account.

We are not liable for any lost profits or special, incidental or consequential damages arising out of or in connection with the game, including, but not limited to, loss of data, items, accounts, points or characters from errors, system downtime, or adjustments of the gameplay.

While you are playing on [servername], you must abide by some rules ("[servername] Rules") that are stated on this homepage. If you break any of these rules, your account may be removed and all other services terminated immediately.

Vip, points, premium:
"Points" temporarily confers additional abilities and advantages to the registered holder of the account it is assigned to. These additional abilities and advantages are not available to holders of free accounts. [servername] reserves the right to add, modify or remove these additional abilities and advantages at any time. You may get these points as a gift for a donation. However, you're donating solely to support the server and you're not purchasing anything. Donations are not refundable in whole or in part.
[servername] reserves the right to change fees and donating methods at any time. Once Vip Accounts have expired or are terminated the respective accounts are downgraded to free account status and the account holders lose all Vip Account benefits. Any fees that have not been used will not be refunded. All holders of [servername] accounts are responsible for the security of their accounts, registered email addresses and computer systems. [servername] cannot be held responsible for any damage caused by compromised accounts. Users are required to act in accordance to the game rules ("[servername] Rules") whenever they enter the game or the website of [servername]. The [servername] Rules are announced on the website of [servername]. [servername] reserves the right to temporary or permanently discontinue the game service for users if they violate one or more of the game rules. The [servername] Rules may be changed by [servername] at any time. [servername] does not warrant continuous or error-free operation of the game, the website of [servername] or the accounts. [servername] reserves the right to temporarily or permanently alter or shut down the game service at any time. [servername] cannot be held liable for loss of profit or for any other kind of damage arising out of or in connection to the game. Examples for such damage include, but are not limited to, loss of data, items, points or characters resulting from software flaws, system downtime or adjustments of the game play. [servername] reserves the right to partially or completely modify this agreement at any time.

based on cipsoft' one, dunno if its legal to copy this kind of agreements
 
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That's the whole point, you must be smart enough to make your own stuff. Rules, terms, etc. Anything that may conflict with the law.
I agree though, it's not easy. People in America sue companies for spilling coffee on themselves, claiming that they served them coffee that was "too hot", they won million's.

Ridiculous stuff happens, you have to be smart and be prepared.

Woman awarded nearly $3 Million suing McDonald's over Coffee
 
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i've edited it and add 'extended agreement', but i'm still not sure if that's enough
Edit: i'm not sure also about words 'fee' and 'billing'
Edit2: To prevent 'client rights problems' there should be some info about yatc, gnu, yatc creators project website etc ;p
 
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They call it donate for legal reasons and tradition (back in the days when it really was a donation).
 
They call it donate for legal reasons and tradition (back in the days when it really was a donation).
Calling it a donation doesn't give any legal protection really. You may as well call it "blood money" for the use it'll do if you were taken to court about it.
 
Calling it a donation doesn't give any legal protection really. You may as well call it "blood money" for the use it'll do if you were taken to court about it.
Thanks! That's answer what i excepted to get(sorry if this sentence is wrongly formatted).

If you are SELLING items or premium, there's an possibility by Cipsoft to raise an lawsuit on you, as you make money of their stuffs.
Donating aren't Selling, Donation is a code for getting money without going profit, a code that Cipsoft can't raise a lawsuit against.
Servers really needs donation or as in thread point: "points selling".
I don't believe that's impossible to make it legal.
Every mmorpg game sells points/premium so why can't we?
To make it legal and profitable

1. We just need to use another client like edited yatc(if its edited by urself you have to release edited sources and write author - GNU rule) - why? Cuz ipchangers are modyifing Tibia code which violates authors' rights.

2. We need to remove words "Cipsoft", "Tibia" and their artworks(like tibiacom layout) from our server and website.

3. Points trading: Yeah. There should be kept 'buy points' button, but you need to write service agreement and rules similar to this one.

4. Make sure that there is no word "Tibia" in any of your items in items.xml

5. Leave contact e-mail and check it regulary - if any brand mail to you - you may edit server content rapidly to prevent real life problems.

Maybe i'm paranoid a bit, but when real money comes into game you have to be careful.
 
When I ran a server I set up everything differently. Instead of "shop" I put "Use Points" or w.e. Instead of "Login to Buy" I used "Login to use your points."
Stuff like this is okay AFAIK. If you reward someone because they donated to you, you most likely have a greater chance of avoiding a law suit. Be smart, be safe.

Also, remember to set up a terms and agreements page stating that you're donating solely to support the server and you're not purchasing anything.

"Be Smart, Be Safe".
Word.

Kind Regards,
Eldin.
 
think of an OT donation as a real life donation, in my school we raise funds for special needs kids, we donate 5$ and to thank us we get a cookie... in Ot's you donate the money and they give you a treat for helping out.
 
think of an OT donation as a real life donation, in my school we raise funds for special needs kids, we donate 5$ and to thank us we get a cookie... in Ot's you donate the money and they give you a treat for helping out.
that's not a donation, that's a purchase of a product, charity or not.
 
It's illegal to make money from things that's under copyrights and there you don't have the rights to do so.
As pointing out most servers are using real tibia website, which is under copyright laws so making money out of that is completely illegal.
Using their client and make money in that is too illegal(custom client OTs).
I misspelled the post a bit that I assume you're pointing at with selling rights, it means I'm working with the laws what you can and what you can't do with money in situations.
Copyright has a lot to do with this, it's almost everything with OTs.
Client & Website(most cases), and there you are, you're gambling with copyrights.

And most servers have enough statements to make it valid as donations no matter if it give the donator items that the donator can expect to get or not, while others aren't.

Using global tibia's site images is another thing. You're not making money of it.
Only a person who uses tibia client to connect to any server not owned by cipsoft is making a crime, owners of ots' don't.
To be honest, cipsoft would never sue you, because they have no clear evidence that you uses something made by them. And most ots' owners don't.
Btw if you RECIVE ANYTHING for a donation it's called a sale (transaction, not a sale like you have in shops).
I'll ask my father who is a lawyer about it when I have a possibility.
 
i don't see reason for flaming anymore.
Best way to sell points is agreement similar to cipsoft's as I wrote and removing words 'tibia', 'cipsoft' and their graphics from whole ot content.
You're selling points which can be exchanged to something so if website, ot data parts and servername doesn't contain tibia i don't see anything illegal.
How about yatc? does it works for 9.x? I'm going to create fully legal ot, but pretty later - currently there aren't any questlines, passage npcs, etc. so I won't write any teasers too early - if there even would be any investigation you won't get punished cuz you don't have 'ipchanger' in your computer.

so..
@up You're still using Cipsoft logo and Tibia trademark for personal purposes. If i was brand creator and someone makes server with my logo why don't investigate that? (s)he made "rip" of my hard work.
"Be Smart, Be Safe".(...)
and be Unique. Make something different than tibia.com website layout and remake yatc.
That's my opentibia [servername] vision(yeah, we should stop call it tibia if we want to create something unique).

I won't post here with my point of view. I guess there's no point to spam this thread anymore.
You all are right. There is no real donation it's/should be just "buy"/"use points"

Thanks for thread creator i've changed my point of view about opentibia billing.
 
A donation is something you give in order to get nothing in return, though if the person you donate to decides to give you something in return it is their choice, therefore OT points system is not really agaisnt the law as you are not selling etc you are giving them a present for donating, therefore you cannot be jailed or prosecuted for giving someone a present for giving you a donation.

Stop being so dumb.
 
So if I am a poor African who doesnt have clean water, I go and sell my cow and donate the money to Water Aid, then 2 weeks later they come and give my villiage... including myself... clean water, would this be a sale?
 
A donation is something you give in order to get nothing in return, though if the person you donate to decides to give you something in return it is their choice, therefore OT points system is not really agaisnt the law as you are not selling etc you are giving them a present for donating, therefore you cannot be jailed or prosecuted for giving someone a present for giving you a donation.

Stop being so dumb.

Definition of a "donation":
Google

I see nothing about receiving goods or services in return.

Prime example:
" (Donations) An unconditional gift (normally money), offered voluntarily and not as a result of contractual obligation and which receives no material benefit or expectation of benefit in return.

www.asf.org.au/information/terminology"

If you're either selling something that does not belong to you or receiving money in return for services (a sale not donation) then you are breaking the law.

If you are truly accepting a donation, with no gain for the person making the donation, then you are still breaking the law if you do not possess the rights to the product or service.

Please don't try to take the high ground when you show no basis for your argument. That's not the way it works.

Also, dumb, the inability to speak. Learn the correct adjectives for the lack of intelligence.
 
So if I am a poor African who doesnt have clean water, I go and sell my cow and donate the money to Water Aid, then 2 weeks later they come and give my villiage... including myself... clean water, would this be a sale?
Location: England <--- LIES!!!!!! ;) but seriously:

You were not obliged to make a donation to Water Aid, the fact they assisted the village is unrelated to the donation made, therefore it is not a sale. You did not intend on receiving the assistance in return, it was coincidental. If you intended to receive the service in return then it would have been a purchase of goods, with financial assistance from charity, and not a donation.
 
I don't know if anyone remembers the story, but some dude caught Derek Jeter's 3000th hit ball that went into the stands, he decided to be nice and return the ball back to Jeter.
He wanted nothing in return, however, the New York Yankees rewarded him with season tickets and autographs. Guess what happened next, the IRS smacked him with a 130,000$ tax bill because they see the rewards as a taxable income. Fortunately, the New York Yankees sponsor see it really unfair and decided to help pay off the bill.
It's the same thing in OpenTibia, if someone donates to your server (just like the man gave the ball back), but if you give them something back, the IRS can see it as a taxable income.
Even in today's society, there are corrupt organizations all over the world. Just don't advertise your server so much, especially on Tibia.com and you'll be perfectly fine. Nobody is gonna google search a billion things and suddenly find OT.
 
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