Artificial Intelligence.

[tarjei]

Hello.
Recently I started reading stuff about artificial intelligence, and I started to think that mosnters is Tibia in general are dumb. What is my point. I would Like to ask if anyone would like to try improving monsters AI with me? We could make them cooperate, beeing more careful (like if it sees few players it try to take more secure tactics) and so on.
I count that someone might join me.
Regards.


Ideas posted in thread:

* Single monster is able to make an allience with other met mosnters, so they use one strategy.
* Strategies :
- lookup for friendly creature that you can fight with,
-if monster is surrounded but hostiles, it calculates its chances in fight
-Monster should care about its health level, if its decreasing too fast it flee or try to reduce health loss velocity
- If monster doesnt have chances with player at all, it stay friendly to player, until player attacks it.
- to calculate monster chances in fight we may use gauges such as player level, m lvl, simulate damages, hit chance and so on.
- if monster fights in group :
we could think out some strategies for specific kind of monster.
like look for escape path and block it in first place if possible,
-group of monsters tries to suround target as much as possible
- monsters group carry for each other (if they have buff spells they casts it on each other if its needed)

@update

After a long time I think I finnaly have a clue how to implement it.
I will use Neural Networks implemented in lua so I can easily train NN using OTClient.
Idea is simple, I will fake monster behaviours like playing it, and NN implemented in lua will receive singnals (input and outputs) and learn from it. I hope this way of training monsters can actualy work out. My problem yet is creating input and output structure, but as soon I design it, I will make test AI mob XD

Preparations:
- Reorganizing monster class, preparing command to "change" player into monster with its spell.
- Reorganize input and output structure.

 

[Amusement]

That would take a butt arse load of scripting.
Would be fun to see if you pull it off though, i bid thee goodluck.

It would never be true AI, but i bet you could at least smartin the monsters up.
You'd have to take out Taunt, make the monsters pick certain targets, able to pin point casters/Healers.

Give them the ability to heal each other. (Shet just got serious)

 

[tarjei]

I dont mean scripting, I want to edit engine code to make it real. I just need some more knowledge about this topic. But I quess its entirely possible to make some imitation of thinking in monsters to make harder opponent

 

[Scarlet Ayleid]

Honestly, I would love to see this happening, but this wont be added on the main TFS engine, the TFS is made so that it matches real tibia as much as possible, but you can easily get the sources, work on them and then post it on the C++ Board in the Resources

I'd love to be able to help you, but AI is still a bit out of my league

 

[tarjei]

Its kinda out of my league too, but I will work on it whole holidays. I just got so excited about it and I wont let it now xD

 

[dusieqq]

ideas to make mobs wiser:

make them able to recognize lvls and proffesion and choose the easiest target (lvl+proffesion) high lvl mage=easier to kill than abit lower lvl knight etc

 

[Rambo]

Another idea to make them ignore high level characters.

Why would a rat follow a level 400 EK to kill him?

 

[Beo]

Another idea to make them ignore high level characters.

Why would a rat follow a level 400 EK to kill him?

Because the Rat is a fiesty little bastard?

 

[Vee]

Because the Rat is a fiesty little bastard?

Lol.

How about your avatar dude :S

 

[Siegh]

Lol.

How about your avatar dude :S

My god, I wish I hadnt saw that.

 

[Nikodada]

My god, I wish I hadnt saw that.

It's SWAG BRO, #Swag!! xD

@OT, Damn thats one of the most brilliant ideas I've ever seen on OtLand ^^ Would make teamhunts/lvling so much funnier which would probably reduce the amount of botters also since the wars on OTs wont only be the fun part xD

 

[tarjei]

I deicded to make this thread as my development plan. I will write all idea in first post. Please if you are going to post an idea about artificial inteligence of monsters mark it somehow or make it bold.

* Single monster is able to make an allience with other met mosnters, so they use one strategy.
* Strategies :
- lookup for friendly creature that you can fight with,
-if monster is surrounded but hostiles, it calculates its chances in fight
-Monster should care about its health level, if its decreasing too fast it flee or try to reduce health loss velocity
- If monster doesnt have chances with player at all, it stay friendly to player, until player attacks it.
- to calculate monster chances in fight we may use gauges such as player level, m lvl, simulate damages, hit chance and so on.
- if monster fights in group :
we could think out some strategies for specific kind of monster.
like look for escape path and block it in first place if possible,
-group of monsters tries to suround target as much as possible
- monsters group carry for each other (if they have buff spells they casts it on each other if its needed)

Lets think of the concept first. Then I will make it real and release it if I manage to make it
Thank you for any replies, ideas and your support: D

 

[Summit]

honestly, all this will do is take the chalange out of huntting. instead of 5 dragons i have to fight down a hole i can just kill them one at a time because they dont attack? bad.

essentualy what you'll end up doing is make it so that places like orc fort cant exist. if they ignore high level players then the only ones attacking would be the war lords. also, do you have any clue how damn obnoxious it is to chase down a scarab? now imagin every monster with that capability.

With most games having a decent ai is important, with tibia all it can do is mess stuff up.

 

[tarjei]

You focused just on running monsters, ok. But notice that now everything monster does is brainless casting spells attacking and following. And its not said that each mosnter will follow same strategy. Besides, I dont want to make monsters ignore players. I want them to use some wiser strategies not just tigh behaviour that ends at attacking, casting spells, and following. I know it might mess up things at first. But thats what for this thread is- to disscuss possibilities, and whats most important goal is to make something that OT community havent seen. If AI of monster would turn out nice idea in practice it might be an awesome thing for custom RPG otses. Like someone said in a thread. Ppl join ot communities beaocsue they are tired of global tibia server, and so am I.
So to clarify: my goal is to make something really custom for OT cummunity, if you dont like idea, im fine with it. But in my opinion is worth at least giving a try of making this dream come true
Cheers.

 

[Summit]

Your missing my point. everything about tibia, from quests to hunting spots (which lets face it, with the acception of pvp thats all tibia has) is centerd around monsters immidialy attacking their targets. if a monster doesnt act within those paramiters then it screws alot of stuff up, which means alot of how people play the server and the map would have to be changed as well. people dont want tibia broken in 2 and thrown out the window they just want it bent a bit. I'm not saying dont do it, im saying its gonna screw alot of stuff up that will have to be modified in order for it to be a benifit instead of a hinderence or even noticeable for that matter. The difference is im thinking from a player perspective while your thinking from a hoster perspective. your thinking "oh would this be a cool feature" while im thinking "oh will this feature force me to change how i do things?"

And creatures running is a legitimate argument, it has annoyed the crap out of me since i started playing tibia. as for them not "ignoring" players but instead "not attacking them because they dont stand a chance", its the same thing with different words. look at how many different monsters are in orc fort, elven bane, dark cathedril, ect. if the player meets the paramiters of 4 out of 5 diff monsters and those 4 monsters dont attack unless attacked then that takes away 80% of the chalange of the hunting spot. think about tibia shield system and how shield is broken, 2 rats can cause a player to get messed up if theres a vamp attacking them (ya ya, rats wont be in a vamp area, w/e you get my point..). essentualy what its doing is making it so you can 1v1 a room full of monsters if they meet the paramiters.

Now there is a way to solve that and its pretty simple, if player attacks ANY monster within its range of sight then it becomes hostile as well. that would solve about 70% of my argumenet aginst this. the other 30%, well running monsters are still running monsters and it really really sucks to chase them down...

 

[tarjei]

Added screen.

 

[GhostX]

Summit , the monsters will attack if attacked first. And it should be like monster has a level (hidden) and if player 4x that it wint attack UNLESS ATTACKED. So your thing about dragons is invalid. Unless you can combo/one hit them. If you ask me this doesnt remove the challenge at all! Infact it makes it more OF a challenge. Monsters heal eachother... They hunt you diwn together. So picture it like this.. You attack one dragon n it is in red and another dragon is in screen it would run to block you but heal its other. This is what real rpg needs

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry for spellings my iphone is gay.

 

[Jetro]

maybe if there is a wall between a player and monster, the monster will ignore the player but if player attacks him the monster destroy that wall and starts to attack him

 

[GhostX]

And for people who stated as suummit did "would require new map"... LOL it's intended for custom projects not 5 min edit and run.

 

[Red]

Your missing my point. everything about tibia, from quests to hunting spots (which lets face it, with the acception of pvp thats all tibia has) is centerd around monsters immidialy attacking their targets. if a monster doesnt act within those paramiters then it screws alot of stuff up, which means alot of how people play the server and the map would have to be changed as well. people dont want tibia broken in 2 and thrown out the window they just want it bent a bit. I'm not saying dont do it, im saying its gonna screw alot of stuff up that will have to be modified in order for it to be a benifit instead of a hinderence or even noticeable for that matter. The difference is im thinking from a player perspective while your thinking from a hoster perspective. your thinking "oh would this be a cool feature" while im thinking "oh will this feature force me to change how i do things?"

And creatures running is a legitimate argument, it has annoyed the crap out of me since i started playing tibia. as for them not "ignoring" players but instead "not attacking them because they dont stand a chance", its the same thing with different words. look at how many different monsters are in orc fort, elven bane, dark cathedril, ect. if the player meets the paramiters of 4 out of 5 diff monsters and those 4 monsters dont attack unless attacked then that takes away 80% of the chalange of the hunting spot. think about tibia shield system and how shield is broken, 2 rats can cause a player to get messed up if theres a vamp attacking them (ya ya, rats wont be in a vamp area, w/e you get my point..). essentualy what its doing is making it so you can 1v1 a room full of monsters if they meet the paramiters.

Now there is a way to solve that and its pretty simple, if player attacks ANY monster within its range of sight then it becomes hostile as well. that would solve about 70% of my argumenet aginst this. the other 30%, well running monsters are still running monsters and it really really sucks to chase them down...

sorry (TL;DR)
I'm sure it'd be easy to make a param for 'neverIgnore' if you don't want them to ignore any player. Also I'm pretty sure he was saying that they ignore you if they know they don't have a chance and you start attacking them (like GhostX said).

@OT: This is a wonderful idea. Not sure how practical it is, but it would be really innovative!
Red