Does the OT scene need an exorcism? (food for thought)

[Siegh]

The problem with OTs is simple.

We are still making tibia servers, this is a problem, we should stop associating ourselves with tibia and evolve the project into a "RPG Maker".

This was always my point of view aswell...

 

[Marcus]

The problem with OTs is simple.

We are still making tibia servers, this is a problem, we should stop associating ourselves with tibia and evolve the project into a "RPG Maker".

I'd be on for that one actually.
I'm honestly tired of helping the OT community (even thou I still help here and there).
But I'd be down for something completely different, a community to build base for engines and systems to build brand new set of games not directly aimed at tibia

If such community comes up, sign me up

 

[whitevo]

I'd be on for that one actually.
I'm honestly tired of helping the OT community (even thou I still help here and there).
But I'd be down for something completely different, a community to build base for engines and systems to build brand new set of games not directly aimed at tibia

If such community comes up, sign me up

been doing almost from the beginning.

 

[Marcus]

been doing almost from the beginning.

What you mean?

 

[Flatlander]

What you mean?

Well, anyone who uses TFS, but doesn't make a server with tibia's rules is basically making a new game.
I would argue many servers in the past were more of an "MMORPG Maker" server.
ChaosOT
Collapser
Deathzot
Species
Rise of Abbadon\
Whi World
Necronia
Project XDC

Basically any server that has these 3 things isn't really tibia:

1. Has a 100% custom map
2. Has 100% custom abilities/spells
3. Has 100% custom items

Especially when you start changing rules, and making your own unique systems.
The only real thing we need to finally pull the plug on tibia would be our own sprites, which honestly shouldn't be THAT hard to get done.

There are plenty of RPG Makers out there. But I don't know of any MMORPG makers really.

 

[Marcus]

Well, anyone who uses TFS, but doesn't make a server with tibia's rules is basically making a new game.
I would argue many servers in the past were more of an "MMORPG Maker" server.
ChaosOT
Collapser
Deathzot
Species
Rise of Abbadon\
Whi World
Necronia
Project XDC

Basically any server that has these 3 things isn't really tibia:

1. Has a 100% custom map
2. Has 100% custom abilities/spells
3. Has 100% custom items

Especially when you start changing rules, and making your own unique systems.
The only real thing we need to finally pull the plug on tibia would be our own sprites, which honestly shouldn't be THAT hard to get done.

There are plenty of RPG Makers out there. But I don't know of any MMORPG makers really.

What I mean with such a community, is such a community not in same place as OT community, like external forum or something with a fresh and nice community that helps eachother to grow big things
And with that I also meant abandon Tibia sprites, and even the Tibia client.

Imagine the OT community 10 years ago, but without ability to use tibia client, and tibia sprites (OTC or similar).
That would be cool to see IMO

 

[whitevo]

to build base for engines and systems to build brand new set of games not directly aimed at tibia

been doing almost from the beginning.

And with that I also meant abandon Tibia sprites, and even the Tibia client.

Sprite changes are on the schedule, but that is almost last thing to do.
Check out thread about Unity client which is meant to change out tibia client, whenever this project hits us, lot of custom servers will change.

 

[Peonso]

No, there's a difference between having different opinions and expressing them more and less in disagreeable ways.
If I told you you're a fucking idiot, that would be a highly disagreeable way to share my opinion (edit: given that it was my opinion ofc) and would be an unproductive act, method or format.

That makes no sense, it's not related at all with what I said. It's just you fault at Syllogism - Wikipedia.
Like I said "Only by disagreeing you get good discussion."
And you says "This two are disagreeing and their discussion is dumb.", that is totally not logically related with what I said.

The fact that this opinion is in opposition or is contrary to yours doesn't make the opinion or the way its expressed any more productive or even reasonable.

Not per se, but can make a good discussion if both sides can mannered clash their points of view.

 

[e.e]

First: loving this discussion/exchange of opinions!

The problem with OTs is simple.

We are still making tibia servers, this is a problem, we should stop associating ourselves with tibia and evolve the project into a "RPG Maker".

I agree to some degree.
Personally I would like to see both the OT and this "RPG Maker" community being platformed together, yet to some degree separately as well, somewhere somehow.
Like I think OTS can be highly innovative and still want to associate whether presently or merely historically with Tibia or OT, both to the benefit of current Tibia players that may be seeking something new and innovative, and to this new RPG Maker community benefiting of the player base.
Building bridges.
But I would definitely like to see a part of OTS development become more open, less Tibia-specific, so that it would be easier to innovate.

On a partially related note: I think innovation within the community-platforms could be healing as well, such as more proper ways to incentivize support, advice/answers and general productivity with more than just a Like-button, and an actual system to take care of market trades (scripts, artwork, etc), instead of the scattered and insecure methods that's used now ("skype me so everyone can get my IP and then one of us gives files or pays first and maybe I won't receive what I paid for/made, yay").
But I also realized quickly that there's some serious legal challenges with the idea of trading files for actual money, since some people might start trading highly illegal files on the platform as well, meaning that every file would have to be manually inspected and verified by a paid lawyer or something
It might be possible to make a more indirect system, though.

Not per se, but can make a good discussion if both sides can mannered clash their points of view.

That's my point - I don't think you were very mannered.
It's so easy dude, you're just wrong dude, they're just fed by negativity, it's never a problem, I'm just gonna disagree with literally every word and syllable you write and I've made up my mind that this is a productive conversation because we disagree, I mean disagreeing == productive, each word is defined by the other in the dictionary, clearly, brah

You don't need to agree with peoples opinions, but you do need to agree on the format of communication for it to be productive, otherwise it just devolves into fighting like this (unless you don't think we're fighting and you'd like to keep going, I don't mind ).

 

[Peonso]

That's my point - I don't think you were very mannered.
It's so easy dude, you're just wrong dude, they're just fed by negativity, it's never a problem, I'm just gonna disagree with literally every word and syllable you write and I've made up my mind that this is a productive conversation because we disagree, I mean disagreeing == productive, each word is defined by the other in the dictionary, clearly, brah

You don't need to agree with peoples opinions, but you do need to agree on the format of communication for it to be productive, otherwise it just devolves into fighting like this (unless you don't think we're fighting and you'd like to keep going, I don't mind ).

It seams easy to me, we experience the same OtLand, for me it's great, you want a exorcism. Never said I never face small problems here and there, but they don't summarize my experience at all and are easy to avoid, as it as ever being in any online community, not anything new from the current times.

What you means by fighting? I mean, you serious? I don't know your background, but human beings can get great discussions while disagreeing, it's real.

 

[Flatlander]

I was going to buy the mmorpgmaker.com domain but I see it is $28,000 so nevermind.

 

[e.e]

It seams easy to me, we experience the same OtLand, for me it's great, you want a exorcism.

The confusing part has been that you're making posts here, so you must have or is supposed to have some actual opinion on the topic, but all you've been doing so far is to naysay (infinite disagree-loop) or say negative things yourself, like

Or you can force yourself back into them, go into retard fights, roll in the mud with them, waste your sanity and mind health.

Explain exactly how this sarcastic or snarky answer was productive.

Never said I never face small problems here and there, but they don't summarize my experience at all and are easy to avoid, as it as ever being in any online community, not anything new from the current times.

Good for you. So you don't ever have any serious problems with negative people or negativity, at least online, and because your own experience is all that matters, therefor there's objectively not a problem. Gotcha.

What you means by fighting? I mean, you serious? I don't know your background, but human beings can get great discussions while disagreeing, it's real.

You're right, you don't sound defensive or combative at all

 

[Peonso]

You're right, you don't sound defensive or combative at all

That's the nature of dialetics, I'm trying to prove my point of view. You should think why you instantly connected it with fighting and found it hard to see how it can be an intrinsic part of reasonable discussion.

The confusing part has been that you're making posts here, so you must have or is supposed to have some actual opinion on the topic, but all you've been doing so far is to naysay (infinite disagree-loop) or say negative things yourself, like

Good for you. So you don't ever have any serious problems with negative people or negativity, at least online, and because your own experience is all that matters, therefor there's objectively not a problem. Gotcha.

Explain exactly how this sarcastic or snarky answer was productive.

This post wasn't clear enough for you? You are talking about "the OT scene that's gotten more negative", my point is clear, it's not more negative than it always was and I'm having a great time here. This is quoted since the beginnings of internet chats/forums, trolls always existed.

Regarding my sarcastic remark and my other quote, you got it totally wrong. I'm not saying "for me it's good, fuck you", I'm saying that if two people experience the same community and got totally different impressions while the only factors that differs are themselves and how they behave in that community, maybe you can start to look for the source of the issue in themselves first, instead of put the blame in the community. Contemplate the possibility that how you interact with the community my change what you get from it.

You are giving me the impression that you created the thread to getting reinforcement of your point, else I'm trying to fight with you.

 

[e.e]

^
And you're giving me the impression that you're trying to prove that you're right that trolls have to be ignored by acting like a very stubborn one yourself

Look, I don't know if OTLand has gotten any more negative, I was just asking the question, inspired by Marcus' post.
But I do think the world at large is getting more anti-social and narcissistic (there is strong statistical evidence for that), I do think there's an increase of zombies, and regardless of whether OTLand or the OT community has been affected in any way by RL factors or by the state of the OTS market, technology or communities or if it hasn't been affected or changed in any way at all since its inception*, I still think it, like just about everything else, can be improved, and that there are anti-social (of different types and colors) people/members of the community around, and that to close our eyes and tell ourselves they don't exist might actually be part of the problem (IMHO anyway), much like homeless people and ghetto residents don't go away by being ignored either.
But you can tell yourself whatever you want, I don't mind, I just think you trying to tell me what to think without even putting forward an argument or even sharing what exactly it is that you think and further acting somewhat unpleasant is not very productive in my eyes to put it mildly.

* Dreaming...

 

[Marcus]

Trolls/Haters can only be avoided as far they're not targeting you.
Look at me.. I have so many trolls and haters after me.

Some are from competition, some is of jealousy, but many of them are because I punished them in the past.
Like yesterday I got myself a brand new hater.. a guy who used bot in DarkOT, I deleted him and him and his friends were like "We have never botted a day in our life, we don't know what bot is.."
While running around auto-aiming sds everywhere.

So.. because I delete cheaters, I gain more and more haters.

Botters... they know nothing worse, than being punished as a botter, because they love to brag hoe they managed to get lvl 300 completely """"manual"""".

 

[Worr]

@GailMakesItHard I wouldn't call it dead. It's just that we've evolved to where the best servers are essentially games of their own rather than a pirated version of Tibia. The creator element is not there for the common player because we've come the full circle and replaced CIP with some other ot creators.

I think this leads to entitlement and there is no easy way to come back from that unless everything was just destroyed and left in ruins. Like in your real life, is there a way you'd really start to appriciate having water in your taps again? Not really, unless you lose that comfort. Now it's just an annoyance if you get interruptions, like warm water in your shower stops working.

No sane person would place their home in ruins just to feel less entitled though. We just can't go back.

 

[Peonso]

^
And you're giving me the impression that you're trying to prove that you're right that trolls have to be ignored by acting like a very stubborn one yourself

Look, I don't know if OTLand has gotten any more negative, I was just asking the question, inspired by Marcus' post.
But I do think the world at large is getting more anti-social and narcissistic (there is strong statistical evidence for that), I do think there's an increase of zombies, and regardless of whether OTLand or the OT community has been affected in any way by RL factors or by the state of the OTS market, technology or communities or if it hasn't been affected or changed in any way at all since its inception*, I still think it, like just about everything else, can be improved, and that there are anti-social (of different types and colors) people/members of the community around, and that to close our eyes and tell ourselves they don't exist might actually be part of the problem (IMHO anyway), much like homeless people and ghetto residents don't go away by being ignored either.
But you can tell yourself whatever you want, I don't mind, I just think you trying to tell me what to think without even putting forward an argument or even sharing what exactly it is that you think and further acting somewhat unpleasant is not very productive in my eyes to put it mildly.

* Dreaming...

Stubborn but as stubborn as you or less? I'm not trolling you.

I don't know why you keep repeating I'm not giving an argument or sharing my thoughts, when that's all I'm giving you. I totally get your point, I think you are just ignoring other aspects of the problem. Let's get this Marcus guys as exemple, that motivated your thread about: you complaining about people negativity, quoting some guy complaining about people that complain (some sort of Xzibit meme inception).

In his DarkOT thread some random guy appear going nuts about player spoofing, what he does? He feeds the troll the most he can, going in some sort of crusade against the guy, as if he likes rolling in the mud, the perfect exemple of my previous sarcastic quote. OT scene seems darker to him, needing some sort of exorcism. You think it's not related at all with his own behavior, really?

 

[e.e]

Let's get this Marcus guys as exemple, that motivated your thread about: you complaining about people negativity, quoting some guy complaining about people that complain (some sort of Xzibit meme inception).

In his DarkOT thread some random guy appear going nuts about player spoofing, what he does? He feeds the troll the most he can, going in some sort of crusade against the guy, as if he likes rolling in the mud, the perfect exemple of my previous sarcastic quote. OT scene seems darker to him, needing some sort of exorcism. You think it's not related at all with his own behavior, really?

Can you not see that these posts of yours are very accusatory and negatively insinuating in nature, and that this is in conflict with your message that you don't have any problems with negativity and that everyone whom is bothered by anybody else's behavior, at least online, should necessarily and exclusively inspect themselves?
I mean you're here right now focusing on and trying to make the point that everyone that disagrees with your perspective are necessarily wrong or simply attracted to negativity for ever being affected by it, basically confessing your own negativity, but refusing to admit or possibly even recognize that it's right there in front of you, coming out of your own mouth

What do you really think?

 

[Peonso]

Can you not see that these posts of yours are very accusatory and negatively insinuating in nature, and that this is in conflict with your message that you don't have any problems with negativity and that everyone whom is bothered by anybody else's behavior, at least online, should necessarily and exclusively inspect themselves?
I mean you're here right now focusing on and trying to make the point that everyone that disagrees with your perspective are necessarily wrong or simply attracted to negativity for ever being affected by it, basically confessing your own negativity, but refusing to admit or possibly even recognize that it's right there in front of you, coming out of your own mouth

What do you really think?

You sort of summarized what I think, a bit exaggerated, since I wouldn't say I don't face any kind of negativity nor that they should exclusively inspect themselves as if the aren't problems in the community itself, of course there are.

First thing that comes in my mind when I think about the OT community is that I meet tons of people from over the world that shares the same passion for this 2d game from 1997, where tons of content is shared and where I learned tons of shit, really, I learned a lot. If it was a picture in my head it would have rainbows. No exaggeration here. Still, some people get totally the opposite experience, I need to aknowledge them that the least they could do is contemplate the fact that they are doing something wrong, that they put themselves in that boat by their own actions.

I don't think I was that harsh, maybe I was, but the idea is harsh itself, how would you address it better?

I can't avoid to remark that you was totally trolling me. You were dogding my points, said I was making no arguments, then suddenly aknowledge you understood everything I said and summarized my point even better than mysef.

 

[e.e]

First thing that comes in my mind when I think about the OT community is that I meet tons of people from over the world that shares the same passion for this 2d game from 1997, where tons of content is shared and where I learned tons of shit, really, I learned a lot. If it was a picture in my head it would have rainbows. No exaggeration here.

Interesting perspective.

Still, some people get totally the opposite experience, I need to aknowledge them that the least they could do is contemplate the fact that they are doing something wrong, that they put themselves in that boat by their own actions.

Fair point, but for what it's worth I think you should work a bit on being more cautious with making such hasty judgments in the future.

I don't think I was that harsh, maybe I was, but the idea is harsh itself, how would you address it better?

I'd make sure not to come off so aggressive in the start.
I wasn't very bothered by your first post, though it was pretty brash too, but your second, third and fourth post annoyed me.
I feel like I made sure to ask my question very openly and your response was very aggressive not to say close-minded.

I can't avoid to remark that you was totally trolling me. You were dogding my points, said I was making no arguments, then suddenly aknowledge you understood everything I said and summarized my point even better than mysef.

Consider this quote:

I totally get your point, I think you are just ignoring other aspects of the problem.

You may not be the only one that ever feels that way.