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No grind only play

frostedflakes

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I've noticed there's a bunch of people here trying to make more casual style servers, that are less about grinding, fighting wars and hitting your mom with a chair, and a little more about hanging around, exploring and doing cool shit we couldn't do back in 2008.

@Marceklos came with this banger which got a relatable post award and lots of resonance
I'd like to play a very very very casual server.
I want to play for only a few hours a week and still don't feel like I'm way behind the no-lifers and bot-users.
Highly unlikely I'd ever feel this way on a MMORPG. I feel this way with MOBA though, but it often doesn't get as fun as a RPG does.

Some ideas I had were:
  • Focusing on social aspect of game like making a democracy system or something to force people to make friends in-game
  • Making ability-based achievements like XP/H or very hard quests more important than total xp gain
  • Highscores for a bunch of other things like exploration (stepped in SQMs count), friends count, Killing in the Name Of, variety of monsters killed, account lvl, number of quests, total damage and so on
  • Better use of spells elements and some kind of spell upgrading/temp boost system
  • Not boring daily tasks

In a nutshell, stop the grinding (at least diversify it).
I'm working on a project that includes many aspects that you all have mentioned. ("democracy system", seriously? are you stealing my ideas? hahaha)
We'll incorporate crafting and gathering systems, bosses, new balanced classes (encouraging players to reunite in a party for farming), castle contest, town contest, and a very slow experience rate, with probably a level limit, so players won't get very behind old players. The purpose is to focus on the social aspect, not never-ending grinding for items or equipment, although we'll have a little bit of that since it's part of the whole MMO experience.

If any of you want to contact me to know more about it, or maybe gather up, please contact in Discord (Oserc#1598)
Working on a very promising server which will include lots of the stuff you mentioned as well.

Some things worth to mention:
-The exp is partly based on the amount of players who reached certain level. (For new players and casuals to reach up faster to those who nerds the leveling progress)
-Doing dungeons and not just mindless botting you actually recieve major and well needed charms and charm parts required for your character to be able to stay strong enough to handle certain mobs and quests.
-Spells and spellupgrades are recieved through quests, hidden, mysteriandos. Rather than just lvl up.
-Upon killing bosses and rare mobs (in spawns) you recieve a random (shitty or awesome) bonus which can be placed down on your equipment, hopefully we will see a lot of trading and interaction however between players to create a stronger community since the upgrade/bonus is very individual/special to the type of character you want to play out as.
-Missions which requires you to actually play, unfortunately grinding/plain killing mobs sometimes but usually it requires more thinking in order to progress.

This server has surely kept its glory of mindless grinding but with a twist of requiring you to actively encounter quests, missions & dungeons to stay able to hunt within your level and for those who takes it a step further and teams up, trades or simply just engages with the community should benefit heavily from it. Click my banner to join the discord. Gamefate already got a big audience waiting for its release and we're getting there pretty soon.

While I'd like to take a step back from all the systems and focus on the core mechanics first, I still have lots of similar thoughts. Alas, the client and server as they are make it pretty hard to do custom stuff like this and so every project hits a wall very soon. Can we cook something up? I can code like a motherfucking champion and could make a thing or two if needed. Let's discuss, hit me with your ideas
 

Marceklos

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Oh so it's here where we can let our creativity storm to fall and the author would feel thankful for the inputs even if he won't use the idea?

some key points you didn't quoted above:
Yes. Ridiculous levels aren't reasonable.
You know what isn't reasonable as well? Spending 10~30 hours on the same dungeons to be able to resist the next place.
I DO WANT to see your content. NO, I DON'T WANT to be 300 hours with you.
Maybe low xp but places with experience reward (only once) at the end is good enough. Try harders can still grind but no one will get ridiculous levels.
Also good to bring friends whose only purpose is to join wars. If they have a friend on the server to take them on the experience rewards they would get decent level for pvp in a couple of hours.
I don't care about those AT ALL (bot / cheat). I'm casual player, remember? I don't intent to be on top #1.
Yes, let people bot.
Roguelike
I know this doesn't fall into the core mechanics but would be nice to see a place that changes every time and different from other servers.
A place like this would make even "collect quests" be interesting if well designed.

I could also code like a motherfucking champion but not willing to spend 300 hours building a server :( (are you?)
Hope you do something nice for casual players. Or at least someone here would make a suggestion on some already online server... all I see around is grinding.
 

oserc

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Hey guys! Nice to see that someone took initiative to post a thread in order to discuss these game aspects democratically.

Well, I've been working on my project (by myself) for a few months now, and it gets tedious sometimes, indeed. Everytime I finish with a code, another one pops up in my head and here we go again lol. But, yeah, my main purpose is to eliminate, as much as possible, the grinding aspect inside the game. I'm a classic RPG gamer, and I really miss social interaction, environment elements and real role playing experience as well. So that's what I'm looking for. Newer MMORPGs like Albion, New World and many others are trying to pass through that barrier, and it seems to me that the old frenetical grinding era in MMORPGs is over (thank god).

I've been learning about game design lately, and there are mainly two aspects in any game - specially MMOs - that must be avoided: artificial time barrier and vertical progression. Artificial Time Barrier occurs when you insert pointless and useless content in your game just to increase gameplay time. In order to avoid that, EVERY system/mechanic/content inside the game must have a real and fun purpose. Verticial Progression, on the other hand, takes place when you add new updates to the game, with new weapons/spells that deals more damage, but also adding monsters with higher HP/armor, thus increasing battle numbers, but not really changing gameplay experience. Like this:

level-1-mmo-characters-level-ymmo-characters-800-level-1-7454784.png
In my opinion, Tibia has failed to avoid these two game killing elements lately. I'm trying to give a more social, sandbox-oriented, open world and real role playing experience for people. Here are some ideas I've been working on:

1. Level limit and skill level limit: you won't get beyond level and skill level 100. Later progress will be focused on item upgrade, spell/skill upgrade. Don't get me wrong, reaching level 100 will be hard enough, but I agree that "ridiculous levels aren't reasonable". For end-game content, people will have to gather up with guildies or join parties.

2. Leave magic for mages: warriors, archers, rogues and etc do NOT cast spells. You want healing? Carry food, bandages or health potions with you. You want light? Don't forget your torch.

3. Gathering / Crafting System: I implemented custom skills on my server, and depending on your chosen class, you'll have more ease to level certain skills. For example: warriors level "mining" and "blacksmithing" faster than others, mages will level "herbalism" and "alchemy" faster and so on. For me, a crafting system is important to the economy (and player interaction), since a crafted weapon can have more quality than a weapon bought from a npc, for instance.

4. Democracy System: each major city in the main world will have elections to select their King/Queen and Counselors. The King/Queen will have a little power over that city, collecting taxes and using them in favor of the city and citizens. This system is very, very tricky. Although it sounds like a good idea to me, I'm still trying to figure how this will work out, without leading to power abuse.

5. PVP/War System: I truly believe in the power of PVP in a MMO. To create a competitive environment, main dungeons will be flagged as "red zones", and killing will be allowed inside those dungeons. Players might pursue those dungeons, since there is, at the end of every one, a chest of treasure, that will be looted by the strongest group. Guilds may also battle for conquering castles, that will grant them advantages like a free area for farming, gathering resources and crafting.

6. Navigation: players will be able to buy or craft boats and adventure into the sea. Open sea is a lawless region, so PvP and criminal acts will be allowed. People might also pursue "treasure maps" to find hidden treasure on certain islands.

I would like to get some feedback from you guys regarding those ideas. Am I tripping? Lol.
 
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frostedflakes

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Oh so it's here where we can let our creativity storm to fall and the author would feel thankful for the inputs even if he won't use the idea?
No comment xD

Yes. Ridiculous levels aren't reasonable.
You know what isn't reasonable as well? Spending 10~30 hours on the same dungeons to be able to resist the next place.
I DO WANT to see your content. NO, I DON'T WANT to be 300 hours with you.
Strongly agree. May be related to the high barrier of entry for custom servers and the expectation that the server will be running for years. It may or may not be smarter to operate under the opposite assumption, your server will be likely dead in a few weeks, so let's party now

Maybe low xp but places with experience reward (only once) at the end is good enough (...)
I feel like that relates to dungeons or some kind of maps that you can "complete". Server side that's trivial (sans instancing) but there's no UI for stuff like this besides text messages.

Yes, let people bot.
Turns out making the computer reliably click slimes for 12000 hours is waaayyy more fun than reliably clicking slimes for 12000 hours yourself. Ain't nobody got time for that shit and also as a dev I'm sure as hell not going to invest time into stalking players or implementing annoying checks or puzzles for terrible crimes like mwall timer or auto 10000 eat food lmao. Yeah agree.

Roguelike
I know this doesn't fall into the core mechanics but would be nice to see a place that changes every time and different from other servers.
A place like this would make even "collect quests" be interesting if well designed
We should apply more roguelike concepts to OTs in general, some fit really well. Random generation shouldn't be too hard, the guys doing roguelikes did all the work and use squares too, just have to carry it over to the weird perspective. You can even do cool stuff like wave function collapse to generate really nice dungeons. But the assumption on OTs is that it's one single persistent world and so there is no mechanism for managing maps, changing them in real time or instancing unless you build it yourself (or is there?). You can get around some of that with generating maps and hundreds of teleports but ehhh

I could also code like a motherfucking champion but not willing to spend 300 hours building a server :( (are you?)
Nah but I may spend 300 hours to be able to build a server in 30 hours and fill OTServlist with wacky little worlds
Post automatically merged:

Hey guys! Nice to see that someone took initiative to post a thread in order to discuss these game aspects democratically.

(...)

I've been learning about game design lately, and there are mainly two aspects in any game - specially MMOs - that must be avoided: artificial time barrier and vertical progression.
1 thank and 2 right on the money

1. Level limit and skill level limit: you won't get beyond level and skill level 100. Later progress will be focused on item upgrade, spell/skill upgrade. Don't get me wrong, reaching level 100 will be hard enough, but I agree that "ridiculous levels aren't reasonable". For end-game content, people will have to gather up with guildies or join parties.
A level cap nicely solves many problems and I think the content wise you could fill 80-100 levels pretty well, I but I'm still wondering how cool players would be with that and how the endgame would really look like. I had the idea of just ripping off Path of Exile's experience table as a starting point, also capped at 100, but then what hehe

2. Leave magic for mages: warriors, archers, rogues and etc do NOT cast spells. You want healing? Carry food, bandages or health potions with you. You want light? Don't forget your torch.
Say you're a sorcerer, what's really stopping you from hitting the gym and picking up a sword? Why can't a warrior learn any magic, does he have the wrong blood type? Is it a mechanic, part of game, like mages vs. melee? What are you going to do with the mana bar and magic level on non magic classes? How will you balance healing in say PvP between food healers and magic healers? Or is it all the same just different color?

3. Gathering / Crafting System: I implemented custom skills on my server, and depending on your chosen class, you'll have more ease to level certain skills. For example: warriors level "mining" and "blacksmithing" faster than others, mages will level "herbalism" and "alchemy" faster and so on. For me, a crafting system is important to the economy (and player interaction), since a crafted weapon can have more quality than a npc bought weapon, for instance.
I think the above applies, also what do you gain from leveling say gathering? I think if you require special knowledge to gather some resource, then a simple quest is enough. Do these replace the current skills? Crafting always sounds good but usually crafting anything good in an MMO is so astronomically expensive it's only available to whales really

4. Democracy System: each major city in the main world will have elections to select their King/Queen and Counselors. The King/Queen will have a little power over that city, collecting taxes and using them in favor of the city and citizens. This system is very, very tricky. Although it sounds like a good idea to me, I'm still trying to figure how this will work out, without leading to power abuse.
A general consensus system will be likely very useful although I don't know if it'll be engaging enough unless you get to choose something everyday, and then you'll likely run into the problem of making the consequences of the choice have enough impact on gameplay

5. PVP/War System: I truly believe in the power of PVP in a MMO. To create a competitive environment, main dungeons will be flagged as "red zones", and killing will be allowed inside those dungeons. Players might pursue those dungeons, since there is, at the end of every one, a chest of treasure, that will be looted for the strongest group. Guilds may also battle for conquering castles, that will grant them advantages like a free area for farming, gathering resources and crafting equipments.
High risk high reward dungeons with PKs, bosses and armies of monsters sound pretty awesome ngl

6. Navigation: players will be able to buy or craft boats and adventure into the sea. Open sea is a lawless region, so PvP and criminal acts will be allowed. People might also pursue "treasure maps" to find hidden treasure on certain islands.
Cool feature but it's gonna be tough without a world map, being able to scroll out and without smooth movement of objects this big
 
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oserc

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts, @frostedflakes ! Your reply got me thinking a lot lol
A level cap nicely solves many problems and I think the content wise you could fill 80-100 levels pretty well, I but I'm still wondering how cool players would be with that and how the endgame would really look like. I had the idea of just ripping off Path of Exile's experience table as a starting point, also capped at 100, but then what hehe
That's also a concern for me, to keep things interesting after level cap has been reached, but I think with item upgrades, high difficulty dungeons, crafting and gathering and pvp content should be good enough, at least for the beginning. In due time, new updates would be implemented, introducing new areas for hunting, new possibilities, etc.

Say you're a sorcerer, what's really stopping you from hitting the gym and picking up a sword? Why can't a warrior learn any magic, does he have the wrong blood type? Is it a mechanic, part of game, like mages vs. melee? What are you going to do with the mana bar and magic level on non magic classes? How will you balance healing in say PvP between food healers and magic healers? Or is it all the same just different color?
Well, melee vocations do have "spells", but they're called "skills" XD they function just like a spell, also consuming mana. The terminology "spells" will be used only for magical damage. Physical damage = Skills.

Regarding mages using sword and warriors casting spells: inside vocations.xml there is a line function for melee damage formula. Sorcerers COULD pick up a sword, but even if they got maximum sword fighting, their melee damage would never reach the amount of melee damage that a warrior can inflict. Also, I didn't go too deep in the explanation of my class system before, but players would have at least 2 choices for a second promotion. If a warrior, for example, wants to deal spell damage, or cast support spells, he can choose to be promoted as a Battlemage, thus decreasing a little bit of his melee damage, but gaining access to spells.

I think the above applies, also what do you gain from leveling say gathering? I think if you require special knowledge to gather some resource, then a simple quest is enough. Do these replace the current skills? Crafting always sounds good but usually crafting anything good in an MMO is so astronomically expensive it's only available to whales really
No, custom skills do not replace the current skills, they're added among the preexisting ones. When I say Gathering skill, i mean "mining", "skinning", "lumberjacking", among others. Players can collect resourcers in order to craft equipments or utilities. An archer will level skinning faster, for example, and with the leathers he can craft some leather armors, etc. You can buy leather armor from a NPC, of course, but with crafting there's a chance you'll craft a "exceptional leather armor" or a "mastercrafted leather armor", that will give extra armor, depending on your tailoring skill level.

A general consensus system will be likely very useful although I don't know if it'll be engaging enough unless you get to choose something everyday, and then you'll likely run into the problem of making the consequences of the choice have enough impact on gameplay
Well, it's a system that i'm still trying to figure out. And yes, for sure the King/Queen will have choices to make and they will impact the gameplay, and for that citizens might judge if he or she gets to be reelected or not. Surely, it's a system that will require some thought, to prevent power abuse.

High risk high reward dungeons with PKs, bosses and armies of monsters sound pretty awesome ngl
Sure! And gives people a reason to kill each other haha. When you have a reward on stake, pvp gets more exciting.

Cool feature but it's gonna be tough without a world map, being able to scroll out and without smooth movement of objects this big
Yeah, good point. Something i'll have to work on later. Thanks haha
 
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frostedflakes

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Cool! More advice nodoby asked for: Keep your systems as simple as possible. Make them so simple your grandma and slow kids who eat glue understand it, and then dumb it down even more. Not because your players are idiots but when you start adding more systems the complexity can kill you really fast

I'm thinking ultra opinionated tfs distro with batteries included, starter content and some weirdo features provided out of the box..? Idk but thanks for all the input will update with something properly formatted soon
 

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Cool! More advice nodoby asked for: Keep your systems as simple as possible. Make them so simple your grandma and slow kids who eat glue understand it, and then dumb it down even more. Not because your players are idiots but when you start adding more systems the complexity can kill you really fast
Sure thing! I'm trying to keep it simple, but sometimes my mind goes to weird places haha
 

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Hey guys! Nice to see that someone took initiative to post a thread in order to discuss these game aspects democratically.Hey guys! Nice to see that someone took initiative to post a thread in order to discuss these game aspects democratically.
[...]

1. Level limit and skill level limit: you won't get beyond level and skill level 100. Later progress will be focused on item upgrade, spell/skill upgrade. Don't get me wrong, reaching level 100 will be hard enough, but I agree that "ridiculous levels aren't reasonable". For end-game content, people will have to gather up with guildies or join parties.

2. Leave magic for mages: warriors, archers, rogues and etc do NOT cast spells. You want healing? Carry food, bandages or health potions with you. You want light? Don't forget your torch.

3. Gathering / Crafting System: I implemented custom skills on my server, and depending on your chosen class, you'll have more ease to level certain skills. For example: warriors level "mining" and "blacksmithing" faster than others, mages will level "herbalism" and "alchemy" faster and so on. For me, a crafting system is important to the economy (and player interaction), since a crafted weapon can have more quality than a weapon bought from a npc, for instance.

4. Democracy System: each major city in the main world will have elections to select their King/Queen and Counselors. The King/Queen will have a little power over that city, collecting taxes and using them in favor of the city and citizens. This system is very, very tricky. Although it sounds like a good idea to me, I'm still trying to figure how this will work out, without leading to power abuse.

5. PVP/War System: I truly believe in the power of PVP in a MMO. To create a competitive environment, main dungeons will be flagged as "red zones", and killing will be allowed inside those dungeons. Players might pursue those dungeons, since there is, at the end of every one, a chest of treasure, that will be looted for the strongest group. Guilds may also battle for conquering castles, that will grant them advantages like a free area for farming, gathering resources and crafting.

6. Navigation: players will be able to buy or craft boats and adventure into the sea. Open sea is a lawless region, so PvP and criminal acts will be allowed. People might also pursue "treasure maps" to find hidden treasure on certain islands.

I would like to get some feedback from you guys regarding those ideas. Am I tripping? Lol.

1. IMO level cap is a very dangerous thing to do. I wouldn't bother with that if vertical progression is slow enough and not give absurd extra power.
2. Sorry, bullshit.
3. You have to put a lot of thought on this. I wouldn't like those to be a goal for itself. I'd like if you had a lot of different options so you have plenty of possibilities for combining. I would hate it if it's somewhat based on luck or level - that sounds very much like grinding. Make those as part of quests. Make possible to mixture different potions (preferably in many levels downs - I mean the result of a combination can also combine with something else). No fail chance. I want to test and find powerful combinations. I don't want to gather stuff over and over again until a math.random() gives me the right number.

4. I think that by itself can make a good server. I'd focus here. Initially, I'd make elections for the President of all server. Mayors can be later, keep it simple stupid. I don't like the idea of taxes and everything he can do must be in benefit of all.
Ideas for what a President can do:
  • Faster spawns somewhere
  • Make blocked paths to be opened - or NPC actions
  • Choose raids, bosses, events schedule
  • Choose a day (or other period or even during whole mandate) for extra XP, extra skills, extra loot, bonus damage, bonus heal, damage/resistance for X element, mana cost/cooldown reduction, NPC price reduction
  • Choose a monster to be buffed
  • Give coin$ to a player (not himself please)
  • Fixed message when someone login or World Chat
  • Message or choose a highscore to highlight or something else on website
Of course he would have to choose only few things from the options.
I like the idea on buffing or adding resistance to elements and then making bosses or dungeons unreasonably hard to beat without this kind of buff.
You could make the buffs to be stronger/weaker according to how long it lasts. Let's say everyone gets 99% of resistance to fire for 1 minute. Just enough to cross a room filled with fire spitters impossible to pass otherwise.
Remember to make the options publicly so people disagree on President's choices resulting on social conflicts.
Beware of people making multiple accounts to vote. I'd restrict to VIP and/or who do all daily quests.
I like this a lot. Please make it well :D

5. I like the dungeon idea if you'd restrict groups in small parties. So big guilds would be spread in smaller parties. How fun would have friends fighting? Also something you don't see often on regular wars is multiple teams fighting concurrently. I'd explore this concurrent idea.
I don't like the idea of Castle War because I don't like big reward for a restricted group of people.
6. I don't quite follow. You'd walk on top of water? What are you? Jesus?

Oh man I'm getting excited with all this talking. Sadly a day has only 24 hours.
 
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frostedflakes

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I'm working on a list with all the suggestions plus my own but it became an entire board and is not plain text anymore so um I'll need a sec

In the meantime, we want both but they conflict:
Infinite progression and level caps
Vocations and no vocations

Infinite progression:
  • you get to keep Tibia vibes
  • no need to scale entire content
  • no huge changes needed
  • hard to reach endgame for casuals
Level caps:
  • easier time designing and more control over progression as dev
  • you level to 80 or 100 and you're done, gz enjoy your endgame as player
  • questionable player acceptance
  • big balls required, you put in level caps you have to rework literally everything, it better be good
Other ideas: ???

Vocations:
  • classic RPG, classic Tibia
  • Players have good understanding of each vocation and know how to PvP
  • Entire system kinda sucks because Cip sucks and they fuck up everything they touch

Classless:
  • enables experimentation, new tactics
  • tons of potential
  • again big balls required, likely a horror to balance
  • danger of only few builds being viable
Other ideas: ???

Vocations and infinite progression are already there and customizing them is somewhat manageable (I'd like hybrids though, or trees)
but I'd like to know how a standard classless system and a standard level cap system would look like. How much of it is simple changes and how much is gnarly shit etc
What I'm trying to do is find recipes and solutions for these big features and major changes.
Say you want a server with level caps, we got you homie, here's how to pull it off, here's values that will work, here's code and resources, here's a demo you can steal from, hf. Hour later you have it working like a million bucks. Players think they playing AAA, design awards, GDC talks. Everybody claps. Or something like that

Till later alligater
 

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  • hard to reach endgame for casuals
Me as a casual player don't think this is an issue by itself.
I just need to feel like I'm constantly progressing without being bored.
  • Entire system kinda sucks because Cip sucks and they fuck up everything they touch
I don't think you should go classless or do massive rework on vocations right off the bat.
To improve this you better start by understanding in deep details what is wrong with it and only then come up with ideas to improve it.

Something to be think of is frequent patches on vocations, spells, items and monsters, so it gets less boring and you are less pressured to "get it right" on first try.
 

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1. IMO level cap is a very dangerous thing to do. I wouldn't bother with that if vertical progression is slow enough and not give absurd extra power.
I can agree with that. But it's only dangerous because hardcore tibia players are not used to a level cap. Let's state a fact here: limitless leveling is one of the reaons tibia has turned into a tedious grinding game. Without level cap, players won't quit prioritazing experience on their hunts. I want people to, after reaching a reasonable level, focus on other content, like PvP, guild growing, specific loots, treasure hunts, crafting, democracy and other social aspects.

2. Sorry, bullshit.
Hahahahaha I don't know, man, but I don't quite understand how EVERY vocation on Tibia has at least a few support spells available. As a knight, you have many sources of spell healing, like "exura", "exura gran", "exura ico", etc. Since I'm working on a Cleric class (support-oriented role), if every vocation can be healed by the player himself, support vocations won't get as many importance as they might. Plus, I'd like to provide a more raw, classic RPG experience.

3. You have to put a lot of thought on this. I wouldn't like those to be a goal for itself. I'd like if you had a lot of different options so you have plenty of possibilities for combining. I would hate it if it's somewhat based on luck or level - that sounds very much like grinding. Make those as part of quests. Make possible to mixture different potions (preferably in many levels downs - I mean the result of a combination can also combine with something else). No fail chance. I want to test and find powerful combinations. I don't want to gather stuff over and over again until a math.random() gives me the right number.
Let me explain how my gathering and crafting system works, taking "lumberjacking" and "carpentry" for example. Player will hit a tree with an axe and, depending on his lumberjacking skill level, he might get a piece of wood, or even two. If his lumberjacking skill is high enough, he can get even better quality wood, used for crafting better equipment. Then, with these woods, he can craft a bow, and the success chance depends on his carpentry skill level. Also, the quality of the crafted bow depends on his carpentry level- the higher his carpentry skill level, higher are the chances to get a better equipment. Of course there is a chance of failure, but if not it would be too much of an easy OTserv, which is not what I'm aiming for...

4. I think that by itself can make a good server. I'd focus here. Initially, I'd make elections for the President of all server. Mayors can be later, keep it simple stupid. I don't like the idea of taxes and everything he can do must be in benefit of all.
Ideas for what a President can do:
  • Faster spawns somewhere
  • Make blocked paths to be opened - or NPC actions
  • Choose raids, bosses, events schedule
  • Choose a day (or other period or even during whole mandate) for extra XP, extra skills, extra loot, bonus damage, bonus heal, damage/resistance for X element, mana cost/cooldown reduction, NPC price reduction
  • Choose a monster to be buffed
  • Give coin$ to a player (not himself please)
  • Fixed message when someone login or World Chat
  • Message or choose a highscore to highlight or something else on website
Of course he would have to choose only few things from the options.
I like the idea on buffing or adding resistance to elements and then making bosses or dungeons unreasonably hard to beat without this kind of buff.
You could make the buffs to be stronger/weaker according to how long it lasts. Let's say everyone gets 99% of resistance to fire for 1 minute. Just enough to cross a room filled with fire spitters impossible to pass otherwise.
Remember to make the options publicly so people disagree on President's choices resulting on social conflicts.
Beware of people making multiple accounts to vote. I'd restrict to VIP and/or who do all daily quests.
I like this a lot. Please make it well :D
Hmmm I don't think your ideas are viable, bro. Setting raids, change spawns, extra XP, buff spawns and specially giving money to players will surely unbalance economy and game mechanics. I'm considering simpler powers for the ruler, like raising or lowering taxes for that city (consequently raising or lowering npc prices / house prices), declare war to other cities and define players who are "hunted" in that kingdom, putting a price on their head.
I don't know, but giving players the power to be "President" or rule all the empire would get the server out of hand... But maybe we can arrange something.

5. I like the dungeon idea if you'd restrict groups in small parties. So big guilds would be spread in smaller parties. How fun would have friends fighting? Also something you don't see often on regular wars is multiple teams fighting concurrently. I'd explore this concurrent idea.
I don't like the idea of Castle War because I don't like big reward for a restricted group of people.
That is actually smart, restricting number of members in a party to enter these dungeons. Regarding Castles, it would only grant guildmembers an exlclusive area for gathering, crafting and a guild vault. Not that big of a reward...

6. I don't quite follow. You'd walk on top of water? What are you? Jesus?
LOL hahahhaa No... When you enter the sea, your "outfit" would be set as a boat. Like in Ravendaw...

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Thanks for your feedback, man! This thread is pure gold lol
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Say you want a server with level caps, we got you homie, here's how to pull it off, here's values that will work, here's code and resources, here's a demo you can steal from, hf. Hour later you have it working like a million bucks. Players think they playing AAA, design awards, GDC talks. Everybody claps. Or something like that
Hahahahahaha
A classless otserv came to my mind, but I had a hard time trying to balance it. Let's say all players have the same vocation ("classless"). They will get the same HP and Mana gain as they level, same cap gain, same attack speed, same defense, same armor, etc. It doesn't seem reasonable that a player wearing a heavy armor and a mace would have the same HP of a sorcerer (if they are at the same base level).

Of course, you can change items to give more HP or Mana when equipped, or create a stat system, giving the player a choice to raise his mana or health when passing level, but it seems too much trouble for me. Let's keep simple. Class system works, but you gotta rebalance it and possibly create new choices for players...
 
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Marceklos

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Let me explain how my gathering and crafting system works, taking "lumberjacking" and "carpentry" for example. Player will hit a tree with an axe and, depending on his lumberjacking skill level, he might get a piece of wood, or even two. If his lumberjacking skill is high enough, he can get even better quality wood, used for crafting better equipment. Then, with these woods, he can craft a bow, and the success chance depends on his carpentry skill level. Also, the quality of the crafted bow depends on his carpentry level- the higher his carpentry skill level, higher are the chances to get a better equipment. Of course there is a chance of failure, but if not it would be too much of an easy OTserv, which is not what I'm aiming for...
Seems, sounds and feels like grinding.

One last thing I forgot (I guess):
Bonus for risky hunts. E.g.: a lvl 30 hunting Dragons makes more XP/h than a lvl 100.
The technical aspect of this can get very complex. But it's very reasonable that if you are hunting something hard for your level you get more experience. Maybe the math for this relates somehow to potential damage from mobs vs player health and heal potential.
 

oserc

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Seems, sounds and feels like grinding.
Well, perhaps, but any MMO that has a crafting system works like that. I see your point, but it's only fair that people who have invested more time on leveling a skill take more advantage from it. Besides, without a concept of skill level, players who have just unlocked the blacksmithing skill, for instance, would be able to craft a high-end equipment, thus breaking the server economy...

One last thing I forgot (I guess):
Bonus for risky hunts. E.g.: a lvl 30 hunting Dragons makes more XP/h than a lvl 100.
The technical aspect of this can get very complex. But it's very reasonable that if you are hunting something hard for your level you get more experience. Maybe the math for this relates somehow to potential damage from mobs vs player health and heal potential.
That's a good idea. Not sure how to make it work, though.
 
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frostedflakes

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One more thing, what version to diverge at. 7.1? 8.0? 8.6? 10.98? The later the more content you have but I'm not gonna lie the old versions hit different. Although I think you can make 10.98 feel like 7.1 but not the other way around so I could port some sprites and you get both, at least visually
 

Marceklos

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One more thing, what version to diverge at. 7.1? 8.0? 8.6? 10.98? The later the more content you have but I'm not gonna lie the old versions hit different. Although I think you can make 10.98 feel like 7.1 but not the other way around so I could port some sprites and you get both, at least visually
I'd go with the latest possible. 10.98 is already too outdated IMO. If you want something old I'd go with 7.4 or 7.6.

Well, perhaps, but any MMO that has a crafting system works like that. I see your point, but it's only fair that people who have invested more time on leveling a skill take more advantage from it. Besides, without a concept of skill level, players who have just unlocked the blacksmithing skill, for instance, would be able to craft a high-end equipment, thus breaking the server economy...
I understand the challenge here. Not to say I'd do it, but here is an idea:

Instead of this kind of "vertical progression" you propose, make it horizontal.
That means having a huger amount of items to be crafted. But then I think you'd have to incorporate the idea of "patches". Like MOBA and card games does (dunno if any MMO does that, possibly). Time to time they change attributes of the classes and/or items. This would force players to discover different kinds of craft recipes if they want to have the item on meta. Please don't put the recipes on a wiki.
(That doesn't mean you would have "tiers" of items, items would float on their own tier)
The problem with newbies crafting high-end equipment can be dealt with making the required items to be very hard to achieve like making it reward of quests or dungeons. If getting the recipe isn't trivial and they have the rare materials, why bother restricting by level.
Then for making highscores of something, focus on the number of different crafted items instead of the current skill.

I want to think what is better (or think how to discover new craft recipe), not grind for the best.

That's a good idea. Not sure how to make it work, though.
You could think in a less elaborate way to achieve this like:
Adding two new attributes to monsters xml to mean a level range. You'd fill it manually with what level do you expect players to usually be able to hunt it comfortably. The more bellow the min level, the more experience it gets. The more above, less experience it gets.
I think it's somewhat prone to be exploited. Needs testing. That sounds like a great feature for casual gamers, he can progress faster if he's open to take risks.
 

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I'm also working on a server like this. Loads of suggestions here seem to be pretty grindy though xD On my server I have experimented with loads of things. One example is a daily quest system that gives loads of XP and money. This makes it more beneficial to play little rather than much. I believe the way I have added it, it is a simple yet effective way to make sure players benefit from playing in a more casual way.

Another thing I think is good is that the server is quite PvP focused, with XP stages giving less XP on higher levels. This makes sure that no player can ever get extremely high level and steamroll more casual players. A two or three casual players will have a sporting chance of bringing down a single hardcore player. So it is more about sticking together with a couple of friends than it is about spending time grinding.

Anyway, it's still work in progress, which it has been for quite some time now. But I was glad to see this thread today. Glad to see that more people than me wants a low-effort server to chill on and go on quests with friends :D
 
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frostedflakes

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Grindy or not will depend on required investment and incentives. It's fun collecting 100 of each food in game because you want a food collection, it's not fun when you have to collect 100 of whatever bullshit from bullshit monsters with bullshit drop rates to finally get your addon; It's fun killing armies of mobs when you invented a cool powerful AoE build, it's not fun when you must do that for hours and hours to progress in any meaningful way. I'm OK with some grind required to drop the strongest weapon from the strongest boss for example, but idk if you have ever manually skilled an EK to 80 and beyond on real Tibia (before offline training) but I'm never doing that shit again. I guess you could call that "good grind" and "bad grind", good grind being an essential part of this game and bad grind being what makes us not want to play it anymore

PS About PvP focus: Other players are the best opponent AI you will ever get and their conflicts and wars are the most engaging content you'll ever have. If you make that accessible to casuals and make them want to take part, you win. Need to figure out how to make people stop PKing defenseless low levels and let neutrals play in peace without fucking everything up first though.
 
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Terotrificy

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Grindy or not will depend on required investment and incentives. It's fun collecting 100 of each food in game because you want a food collection, it's not fun when you have to collect 100 of whatever bullshit from bullshit monsters with bullshit drop rates to finally get your addon; It's fun killing armies of mobs when you invented a cool powerful AoE build, it's not fun when you must do that for hours and hours to progress in any meaningful way. I'm OK with some grind required to drop the strongest weapon from the strongest boss for example, but idk if you have ever manually skilled an EK to 80 and beyond on real Tibia (before offline training) but I'm never doing that shit again. I guess you could call that "good grind" and "bad grind", good grind being an essential part of this game and bad grind being what makes us not want to play it anymore
Well back in 7.4, I had a friend who reached lvl 100 and skills around 85+ without even training not even once. I don't know who setted the "grinding" as a rule to play this game, but for sure nobody forces you to play it that way. But I think you have a point there tho, It's pointless to force someone to grind in order to get something, it should just be more like a casual result (i.e very rare drops) instead of grinding 500 or 1k pieces of something to forge a MPA.
 

oserc

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I don't know who setted the "grinding" as a rule to play this game, but for sure nobody forces you to play it that way.
Competitiveness, being #1 rank, etc... lol

it should just be more like a casual result (i.e very rare drops) instead of grinding 500 or 1k pieces of something to forge a MPA.
Well, even that can be seen as a grinding aspect, since the player, if want to get that item, will have to kill repeatedly the same monster over and over again lol

You cannot fully avoid grinding when talking MMOs, our goal is just to make it less boring, i guess...
 
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Terotrificy

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Competitiveness, being #1 rank, etc... lol
Still, grinding is not a rule, it's just a way you choose to play the game. I met a lot of friends back in time who only liked to manasit at houses, do social things, group quests services, etc.
Well, even that can be seen as a grinding, aspect, since the player, if want to get that item, will have to kill repeatedly the same monster over and over again lol
Anyway, even if your objetive is to get that item, that's something that (again) YOU are looking for and nobody is pushing you to get into it, it's just one more aspect of the game that you can entirely avoid.
You cannot fully avoid grinding when talking MMOs, our goal is just to make it less boring, i guess...
Yes, you can fully avoid grinding when talking about MMO's, paradoxically grinding ends up doing it way more boring. WOW i.e had you doing quests all the time in order to gain experience and advance in levels, and it turned into a less boring experience when playing for first time and you could, anyway, hunt mobs and gain exp but it was a very slow grinding path. Tibia in the other hand pushed you to get experience solely from monsters (except PVP-ENF), but still you can just avoid it and hunt casual. Even a game like Habbo Hotel have lasted for so many years, and let's say, you dont grind anything there.
 
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