OTservers are dying faster & faster.

[Vizzle]

Well, let me introduce myself before most of you start calling me a ''n00b'' and all that blah blah blah...
First of all, I've been playing ots since 7.1, and I had lots of ots, my first ot was an 8.1 ( For me that was the golden Era of OTservers, since it was a really stable version, Evolutions was the most used map, new ideas were born daily and improvement was always daily also) and since there I made at least an ot for each version.

I would like to share some ideas/facts/etc about OTservers that might be usefull:

-1) Greed is the main reason why OTservers would never be the same.

> Before, people will post lots of maps, scripts, ..etc just because they wanted to share their creation as a gift, then someone would download and then fix something or add something to the creation that you just posted, then another person will basically do the same, and then another... etc. This is what happened with the Evolutions map, it started as a simple map, and it ended up as one of the most used maps in the history of OTservers, but do you know whats funny? before, when 8.1 was the lastest version, It was almost impossible to find 2 otservers with the same identical Evolutions map, all of them were edited differently.

greed, some people just dont even care about the game by itself, they would rather get 50 dollars and host an Ot were there are only 2 players and 30 bots, than hosting an ot where his getting 20 dollars and having 15 players and 5 bots...

-2)Lack of creativity, imagination (LAZYNESS)

>Nowadays everything is easier, download the ot, change a few things and done, your ot is done... Then you complain why after 2 or 3 weeks you had to close your Ot because people got tired of the same crap and they started leaving your ot, well, If you would innovate that wouldnt happened... if for example every (x) days, you do a small update it will give the players a sensation that the development team of the OT actually cares and they are constantly working on improving the OT.

lazyness destroyed otservs, and you know it.

-3)Botting.

>Let me make it simple.
Imagine you wake up one day, and you go out in the street, then you find out there are no people on the street, only robots, robots that were programmed in order to do things like: buying food, selling stuff, walking in the street.. well thats how players feel on OTservers that allows you to bot. In order to completly avoid this, you should be clear witth the rules and really harsh with this topic. If someone is botting, delete the acount, no matter what. And make sure its clear, write the rules in the front page of your Ot's website, put it when you do an account, when logging in, etc.

I was so happy when they banned him, and people were actually sad when they deleted his account, like if he was a kind of hero... let me remind you that most of the experience gathered for that lvl 407 was generated by botting...

-4)Plagearism?

>Oh yeah, I love this topic.
akka. RL MAPs...
Well, let me tell you... Imagine that there is an Ot right now that is doing great because it has a new system, new monsters, new spells or something that is attracting people... What more people would do is, copy it and put it in your Ot, or try to do something similar... That would work in the beginning but then the players will go to the original one because is the best one.. What you should do is, copy exactly how it is, look at it, why did it work that well, what does it has that other things doesnt? ask to yourself this and then use this idea and improve it, improve what you copied, make it better, and people will choose your Ot.

Delicious.

-5)Problems.

>As we know, there are factors that messes up our projects, throw away our dreams of watching our OT being successfull, remember that shit happens... and there are things that prevents our OT from being successful, for example.

The famous example of the perfect Pokemon OT.
I think everyone would agree with me that if right now, a new OT based on Pokemon comes out and actually uses the original pokemon story line, with a map that follows the story, starting from Pallet Town etc.... This ot would be a completly success, BUT it will never be possible, because nintendo's copyright policies, so yeah, always think about those factors that would mess up your work..

Imagine playing a pokemon ot, that follows the story, imagine how amazing it would be.


Thats it, discuss if you want.
inb4: "Im not gonna ready all that", "no time for that", "n00b", "too long". In stead of complaining about how long is all this, and how you wont read it, go do something else, if you are lazy, good for you, Im asking for discussions, not people explaining how bored they are or how lazy.
Thanks.

 

[hehemidu]

you could have some good points but you won't get a good discussion started with that lay out of text, its almost unreadable. most people wont even bother to try to read it this way. try using some brighter colours , dark purple is almost unreadable...

 

[Vizzle]

you could have some good points but you won't get a good discussion started with that lay out of text, its almost unreadable. most people wont even bother to try to read it this way. try using some brighter colours , dark purple is almost unreadable...

ah, i did this using the white theme, let me change the fonts.
thanks btw.

 

[Jack s]

You are right

 

[Mjmackan]

Nowadays when sharing something on Otland 90% or more simply copy and paste the code in his OT, even getting reputation for your work is rare.I would rather see Otland as a pay2gain forum since that would at least force people to spend money to gain money since as said everything is about making money, or maybe that people would start take payments from the scripts released. Open source is really nice but believe it or not it does not seem to work at Otland, everything is about to make money and there is only a few contributing when the other never learns anything about programming, spams the help section and never contribute. However the Tibia players seems to disappear and Tibia is more or less already dead.

 

[Gsp]

Good post

 

[Limos]

When I started my first OT it was in a time where having a website was rare, almost everyone used account manager and there was no such thing as donations.
Most of the people had barely knowlegde of anything, they just downloaded a server and spent alot of time in it making it fun with the knowlegde they had.
I also didn't know how to script, I downloaded a map editor for the first time to change the map that was in the server I downloaded and just did my best making it into a fun playable world map.
I used the scripts that were in that server to make new ones, I didn't even know there were OT forums back then. I actually learned the basics of scripting this way, trying to understand the errors I got, testing things to see what it actually did and learn from it.
And because of the time and effort I and my other 2 teammembers spent on it, it got over 100 players.

What I see now, many people think they can't map, they can't script and the only way to make a server is to download and copy paste everything.
Several times when I tried to explain something to someone, I got an answer saying they are not a scripter or people who say they can't map because they are not a mapper.
But what does that even mean, what makes someone a scripter or a mapper. It's all about just doing it. In the beginning it might look hard and you will make alot of bugs.
But the more you do it, the more you learn from it and each time you are able to do more difficult things. And don't think it will take years to learn it so there is no reason to try, because it doesn't.
Basic knowlegde is all you need to make a fun playable server, because it's the basic things like quests, npcs, spells, weapons, items, monsters, short-term goals, story lines and playable map that make a server fun to play.
There are also alot of other things you can do that are not hard to make at all. What I for example started doing in my second server is making holiday events. For example with an Easter event, people had to find coloured eggs that where hidden in a certain city, the person who found the most eggs after a certain time got a reward. Things like this are ofc not necessary, but you can think of all kinds of things people can do besides hunting and opening questchests at the end of a hunting place.
Make the server in a way you like it, play your own server to see if it's fun to play and if you really like it, other people will like it too.

There are ofc also just lazy people, I once got a pm from someone who asked me to edit an npc script and explained what it should do.
But to me it looked like the script was doing the exact same thing, just different textmessages, turns out he actually wanted me to edit the textmessages.
But lazy people like that have always been there, even when I first started playing OTS. People who barely edited anything, just stood in the temple waiting for players to come and let their server end up with 0 players in a few days.
There are probable more of those people who decide to start a server atm because everything more easy to get, but their server will just end up the same way.
All the released scripts can not only help people with scripts they can't make themself yet, but can also be a great way to learn for people who want it, because there is no better way to learn than having examples how to do things.

Botting is indeed a serious problem atm on OTS, but with custom servers there are all kinds of ways to prevent this or make it less important. Make it less about hunting and more about other things.
Let people also get exp from quests or npc missions, give people much other things to do that are more fun or where they gain more than with hunting and make monsters in spawns that are not good or impossible to hunt with a bot.
For example when I hunted vampires with a lvl 33 sorcerer in Ankrahmun, there was no way for me to use cavebot there. 2 vampires could instant kill me and killing 1 vampire without running away would be a huge waste.

 

[Sportacus]

Hey, you hear about that guy that got bite by a rabid dog in the woods?

That guy broke his ankle trying to escape the dog, and since he got bite, is in danger of getting rabies!


Now imagine you are the only person around that could help him!

Here are your options of what to do:

1. Pull out your cellphone, and call 911

2. Attempt to dress his wounds, and assist him out of the woods

3. Pick him up and carry him to your car, and drive him the nearest hospital

4. Promptly after seeing the man dying on the ground, you sit down on your own hands, and for hours you talk about how horrible it was that he was bite by a dog, then you reminiscence to him about how you used to own a dog, and would take him for walks in the woods.

Then you tell him how this whole problem could have been avoided if all dogs were systemically killed, and if EMTs from the local hospital would do rounds through the woods looking for injured people.

After that you take back your comment about killing off all dogs, and instead go on a 9 hour rant about how owners of dogs should take better care of their pets, and that if people did take better care of their pets, none would run away, and thus no dogs would go rabid in local wooded areas, and this whole problem would have never occurred.

For a split second you think about calling 911, BUT THEN, you remember how much health insurance costs, and for the next 5 hours, you go about the high cost of health insurance, and how some social groups abuse the system, forcing prices to sky rocket. You also note, many many times, about how doctors and nurses are vastly over paid, and that they are extraordinarily greedy people.


At this point the guy starts moaning at you, in dire pain, asking for help.. to get someone else to help him. You quickly say 'Okay' but, then you have an amazing thought in your head. You then tell the dying man that all pain and suffering is in your own head, and if you want to get rid of this pain, you should master the ancient arts of healing through meditation.


The man, starting to fade, says 'Please.. just get me out of the woods..' Which in turn you reply about the horrible deforestation of the amazon forests in south america, and how it negatively effects the ecosystem. While going on your rant against deforestation, you remember some of the pretty birds you saw the last time you visited the local zoo, and promptly begin to list all of your first bird species, and why you like them individually.


During your rant, the man losing hope for this world, summons his remaining strength to pull out a pen from his pocket, and takes the tip of the pen and jams it into his own throat, taking his own life.

You don't notice that the man committed suicide next to you, and continue sitting on your own hands, and spewing self-indulgent rants about various situations, but never actually put any energy or effort into doing something to help these causes, but instead perpetuate a negative situation making it look completely hopeless, and with the vast volume of your own negative self-indulgent rants, your negative outlook of seer hopelessness spreads on to other people, creating a culture of do-nothing whiners who apparently have all the answers, but are unwilling to lift even smallest finger to help themselves.






5. Do nothing at all and bitch to yourself how someone should help him.






I'ma answer this for most of you, and the vast majority of posters pick 4, and most non-posters pick 5.

So instead of doing anything to help, most people will instead drag a bad situation into an hopeless emotional pit, instead of trying to help what so ever at all.

 

[zbizu]

pls change colour, your text is harder to read on white background (I read entire text, but it was pain for my eyes)

I agree with your point, but attempts other people do to change the game to something different(db, poke, bleach, naruto) simply annoys me.

From what I seen people would like to play on map they know or on some RPG kind of server.
I tried to cross evo/fun with RPG, but rebuilding entire map went wrong(scripts were successful, but map was too hardcore). They are also getting tired of 7.6 and 8.6 and some "randoms"(single players often without bot) prefer newest protocols.

Laziness is nothing new in otservers and is common. If I had like 8h/day I'd finish my datapack like year ago already. You have some good tips there, but I'm afraid that people who are still here already know that and lazy ones don't change. Sometimes it's lack of free time, but in most cases that's not excuse. It's like Karma. Your ots quality is equeal to work and effort you put in it.

@Sportacus
I didn't know if I did something wrong, but I can't fucking handle all the dying otservers.
Do random user look like a messiah? You made me feel bad about myself. I had tons of pm requesting to join their teams, but most of them wanted me to do entire stuff for them so I refused to all of them ofc. Correct me, if I'm wrong, but now I feel like a scumbag refusing every single pm request(well, I make helpful replies with tip where might problem be, but they aren't perfect). I uploaded plenty of code there - from RME mods through some random maps to almost ready to run datapack offering most useful copypaste stuff for those who want to use it in their servers, but if someone is fucking lazy, I simply can't spoonfeed him just to save his dying dream.

 

[Mjmackan]

We should all, while releasing a script create a bug by removing something simple as an end and refuse to help fix the issue. That would force people to learn at least basics in scripting, maps shouldn't be released at all or not fully at least. I think, removing the whole resources & download threads would make the OT world into a better place, but its probably to late.
I played OT before, until it came to that point when going to OTservlist to search for something to play simply sent me to the same server as i tried before. To explain that a little bit further, when the version was around 8.10~ and below you went in at OTservlist and almost all servers had something different, you looked at OTservlist and saw: "revamped evo", "custom ot", "revamped real map", "ownmade", "custom ot".
Nowadays what you see is: "real map", "real map", "real map", "download and run", "download and run", "real map". I am not telling that everyone is running those servers, i am telling that you will have to look at the very end of OTservlist to find the good servers and even when finding them they're empty or will close in a week since everyone refuses to contribute to them.

 

[Vizzle]

OTland.com doesnt motivate people to post, to be creative and to make new threads....
Ladies and Gentlemen, listen to my idea, and ill explain why it would work...

Otland needs a proper reputation system that keeps you motivated, but not just a simple one, we need a good one, one that actually motivates, let me explain you what my brain is thinking of:

Every thread you made would have a rep button, but only in the thread, in which the users would be able to click it in order to give you a rep point, (but this rep point wont be visible to you or the other users yet) why?

Let me tell you that if you base the rep system just by people giving rep to others, that wont do ANYTHING, honestly, its just a point, which you can ask someone nicely to give you, force other people to do so or you could cheat by loging from an other account in order to give you extra rep... BUT THIS WONT HAPPEN using my idea, why?

Well, let me explain it like this, Imagine, you make a new thread to present your new map, you worked a lot for it and all that.... and you make a quality thread with images, description, download link, etc, then people will give you rep for that thread, then those rep points will be imported in a simple equation, the equation would be: Number of threads started from the user + points received in total from the threads /(divided) by 2 = actual reputation.

By doing this equation we are making sure that the user that made the thread gets a fair reputation system, because in order to get a good reputation you will have to post threads frequently and make them good quality, it would make people motivated, because reputation should be given to users that are active frequently and that post quality threads.

BUT, im NOT done, something is missing, now we have rep points.. but... WHY DO WE NEED REP POINTS!?

Ah I forgot, hehe, here comes the interesting part, basically, we could then make the rep points have a value, a value of class, i mean, when you post something you can see your post and to the left info about you (name, pic, date of join and messages) something is missing, right? Yep, the rep, but it would look boring just to put something like ''Rep=247", o we would make new CLASSES, i mean classes, for example:
You start with 0 rep so your class is, Apprentice. Then 50 points, Ellite. Then 150 points, Royal. Then 250 points, Master. Then 350, Elder.

And etc, or something like that, but make them something related with Tibia so it gives a good feeling. And this would appear in your profile, also it would be good to put a top 10 of the people with best reputation, so there is competition to be in the top 10 and the forum will gain activity.
Just think about it closesly. This system will decrease Spam because people who used to post shitty threads, will improve them in order to get rep points, and the people that used to post really good things but only once a month or something like that will start posting more frequently, so its pure advantage, also the activity will inrease considerable.

But i really doubt that more than 4 or 5 people will read all this that i just post, why? Lazyness, just lazyness...

 

[Tazer]

Oh crap no time to read. xD

 

[Limos]

@Mjmackan
Best way to learn is by looking at examples how to do things. I also learned most things by looking at other scripts, first just the scripts in my datapack, later also scripts I found on forums.
I don't think that all released OT things have a bad effect as long as it's used right. No mather if this is by using it because they don't know how to make it yet or using it to learn and make other things out of it.
Also asking for support is a good way to learn. Someone can spend hours, days or weeks to find out that for example an if statement should close with end, but someone explaining him this would just make the learning more easy and faster.
But what I ment is that many people think they can't do it themselves. They only download and copy paste everything because they think they need to be some kind of expert to make such things.
Everyone can make scripts and maps. It's all about just doing it and learn from it. Look at other scripts or maps to learn from and start with simple things.

 

[Vizzle]

@Mjmackan
Best way to learn is by looking at examples how to do things. I also learned most things by looking at other scripts, first just the scripts in my datapack, later also scripts I found on forums.
I don't think that all released OT things have a bad effect as long as it's used right. No mather if this is by using it because they don't know how to make it yet or using it to learn and make other things out of it.
Also asking for support is a good way to learn. Someone can spend hours, days or weeks to find out that for example an if statement should close with end, but someone explaining him this would just make the learning more easy and faster.
But what I ment is that many people think they can't do it themselves. They only download and copy paste everything because they think they need to be some kind of expert to make such things.
Everyone can make scripts and maps. It's all about just doing it and learn from it. Look at other scripts or maps to learn from and start with simple things.

in order to elarn something you have to practice, its proven, its human nature, its like for example, you have an exam in 3 weeks, and you are not allowed to practice, just read and memorice, you cant do homeworks or classwork... you wont learn shit, and thats how it is.
Thats the reason people dont know how to do shit and are always asking questions... they fucking copy and paste things without doing anything or practicing....

 

[WibbenZ]

Im just gonna say a few things that ruin otservers, big ots that attracts all players, ive been working on my ot for like 8 months, and soon ready for testing. But still got no chanse to compete with server that have over 1000 players. Even if most of them are botters.
* DDos, Limos wrote "the time when there was no donations"~ Yeah thats true, but how the F* are we supposed to have it like that now adays? For eg. A "simple" server today goes for around 60eur, if you want DDos protection, add 100-200 euros..
To be more to the "point" lets take Hosteam. That is used by eg. shadowcores.

Total Due Today:1.062,72 PLN
Thats ONE month, + setup fees.
~ 252 eur

Total Due Today:8.411,97 PLN
Thats for 1 year, 12 months.
~ 1996 eur

How are OT owners supposed to fund the servers via removing the donations?! If there was a hosting service for free, I would remove donations, im not here to make money. But we all have to make some "services" to make money for these crazy prices.
TBA This was calculated on a i5 CPU, 8gb RAM, Premium DDos protection, 1gb port.
(https://hosteam.pl/clientarea/?cmd=cart&action=add&id=28&languagechange=English)

If DDos wasen't as big as it is today, there would be no problems with gaining money, or having to "scam", Ik...
Just look at eg. hetzner.
59 eurs for 1 month, or 708 eurs for a full year.
And that was calculated on an i7 with 48gb RAM.
(http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex60)
And that would be an OP server for a simple ot map.

And one more thing, don't come and say DDos protection is need, then you haven't hosted a server....
Or is it just me?!

 

[Vizzle]

Im just gonna say a few things that ruin otservers, big ots that attracts all players, ive been working on my ot for like 8 months, and soon ready for testing. But still got no chanse to compete with server that have over 1000 players. Even if most of them are botters.
* DDos, Limos wrote "the time when there was no donations"~ Yeah thats true, but how the F* are we supposed to have it like that now adays? For eg. A "simple" server today goes for around 60eur, if you want DDos protection, add 100-200 euros..
To be more to the "point" lets take Hosteam. That is used by eg. shadowcores.

Total Due Today:1.062,72 PLN
Thats ONE month, + setup fees.
~ 252 eur

Total Due Today:8.411,97 PLN
Thats for 1 year, 12 months.
~ 1996 eur

How are OT owners supposed to fund the servers via removing the donations?! If there was a hosting service for free, I would remove donations, im not here to make money. But we all have to make some "services" to make money for these crazy prices.
TBA This was calculated on a i5 CPU, 8gb RAM, Premium DDos protection, 1gb port.
(https://hosteam.pl/clientarea/?cmd=cart&action=add&id=28&languagechange=English)

If DDos wasen't as big as it is today, there would be no problems with gaining money, or having to "scam", Ik...
Just look at eg. hetzner.
59 eurs for 1 month, or 708 eurs for a full year.
And that was calculated on an i7 with 48gb RAM.
(http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex60)
And that would be an OP server for a simple ot map.

And one more thing, don't come and say DDos protection is need, then you haven't hosted a server....
Or is it just me?!

Well, i never said that shop system was a bad thing, in my opinion is good, before in an Ot you would find the nolife that plays the most and gets huge amounts of exp, now you can actually get like him if you actually spend money in a better weapon so you can kill creatures faster and get more exp.. etc etc, but if the nolife has money and spend it... well, thats life, or you compete or you let him be.

Ddos is a major problem, and we have more and more everyday, I think Ddos we should find ways to have ddos reduced by using cheaper methods, there are always solutions to problems, we only have to stop thinking, look at the problem and find another solution, now we are using the solution of paying a company to protect or OT... eventually someone will find another cheaper solution or a way to eradicate this.

 

[WibbenZ]

Well, i never said that shop system was a bad thing, in my opinion is good, before in an Ot you would find the nolife that plays the most and gets huge amounts of exp, now you can actually get like him if you actually spend money in a better weapon so you can kill creatures faster and get more exp.. etc etc, but if the nolife has money and spend it... well, thats life, or you compete or you let him be.

Ddos is a major problem, and we have more and more everyday, I think Ddos we should find ways to have ddos reduced by using cheaper methods, there are always solutions to problems, we only have to stop thinking, look at the problem and find another solution, now we are using the solution of paying a company to protect or OT... eventually someone will find another cheaper solution or a way to eradicate this.

There is no way to "block" DDos, you can only minimize the "damage", there is simply nothing we can do afaik.

 

[Vizzle]

There is no way to "block" DDos, you can only minimize the "damage", there is simply nothing we can do afaik.

yeah, right now is not possible, but probably in the future it would be possible, you never know...

 

[Limos]

@WibbenZ
I was just giving an explanation about the time I was talking about
What I was trying to say with this example is that most people didn't had the knowlegde to do all those things back then but were still creating fun and playable servers with the knowlegde they had and by doing their best.
And that people shouldn't think they aren't able to do something themselves, because everyone can do it, also people who start for the first time. It just takes some time and effort to think about everything that should be in the server and to make it.

 

[Mjmackan]

@Mjmackan
Best way to learn is by looking at examples how to do things. I also learned most things by looking at other scripts, first just the scripts in my datapack, later also scripts I found on forums.
I don't think that all released OT things have a bad effect as long as it's used right. No mather if this is by using it because they don't know how to make it yet or using it to learn and make other things out of it.
Also asking for support is a good way to learn. Someone can spend hours, days or weeks to find out that for example an if statement should close with end, but someone explaining him this would just make the learning more easy and faster.
But what I ment is that many people think they can't do it themselves. They only download and copy paste everything because they think they need to be some kind of expert to make such things.
Everyone can make scripts and maps. It's all about just doing it and learn from it. Look at other scripts or maps to learn from and start with simple things.

What i have seen from your example is that people gets it for that moment, the humans is a really crazy creature if you ask me. This is pretty much how it works:
They ask: "Why does not this script work", someone answer: "Well you need to close that first if statement with an end". The person that asked the question do understand what the text means but doesn't bother to actually learn it since he or she already learned that he or she can keep ask that person or on that forum without spending a minute to even try to fix it themselves. I have been a little like an alone-wolf since i was little, i don't ask questions if i really, really, really don't need to or get forced. I give it days, weeks or months if i need to fix an issue. That is however not always good since it given me issues with school MANY times since its really time consuming sometimes but since my brain tells me: "You can't ask that, You will look like a total retard asking that, etc" i make sure to remember it to the next time and if i forget i can start think of the solving and it directly makes me remember how i got passed the problem. It takes a lot of time and much work but when i have wrote it down once i wont forget.