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Suggestion Remove otservlist subforum

kay

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As in the title, I'm suggesting to remove that subforum. It doesn't seem like there is any interest anyway, only about 10 posts were sent this year. Not even xinn seems to care at all, as he's not answering there (and lately not even visitting otland at all). Besides, I don't see a reason why this particular service is promoted (esecially when it appears in otland board which may mislead people to think otland and otservlist are one, despite the red warnings inside). Maybe that's one of the reasons why we don't see any proper initiatives in that matter - because it looks like otservlist has developed a monopoly within otland. I'm referring here to discussions such as: Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site? (https://otland.net/threads/should-otland-open-new-otserverlist-site.272217/)
So if anything, maybe create a subforum for ots lists in general, where admins could post threads about their sites in which the users would discuss them (similarly to "server gala")? Of coruse there would be only several threads at best and probably not much traffic too, but I still find it better to create an environment for fair competition rather than greatly favor one particular service for unknown reasons. Otherwise just remove that subforum.
 

hotdog1337

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Its my understanding the fourm was created back in the day to stop Xin creating a rival fourm that his OTserverlist linked to when it was in its prime? It was also an attempt to consolodate the community instead of fragmenting it. I cant remember where i read that. Im not so sure that applys now anymore, hard to say. I dont see them removing it regardless of how many upvotes the post gets unfortunetly but I feel with the amount of attention this post has received it should atleast receive a response from staff. It sounds like it was a deal between mark and xin so it might be hard to change. While i agree its largly a useless fourm and probably should be removed it does drive traffic to this site wich is never a bad thing and i think any excuse to have traffic driven to this site considering the current tibia climate probably is for the better. Does the con of having it linked here for the reasons already explained in this thread outway the pro of it driving traffic to the site? I dont know the answer but its somthing that should be considered.
ok so xinn should promote otland on otservlist then so we can have more people interested in the scene completely.
 

nugo

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ok so xinn should promote otland on otservlist then so we can have more people interested in the scene completely.
Xinn doesnt have to do anything he has the monopoly he can do what ever he wants until their is a consertive effort to break that monopoly with some genuine compeition. I agree the fourm should proably go but for reasons i explained above i will be very surpised if otland remove it.
 
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Kaspar

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I read about two suggestions here, the first one is to remove the OTServlist board, and the second one is for OTLand to create our own OTSList. I can understand how the two suggestions can correlate with each other (but it's not a given). The board can still exist, whether or not we decide to adjust our own advertisement method of servers.

As has already been mentioned in a post above, OTServlist redirects traffic to OTLand (vice versa), and while neither I know the details of when and why the cooperation agreement between the two was made, I can still see the benefits of still having it.

I cannot give you an answer about removing OTServlist board, but I personally think that the pros outweigh the cons. And initiatives to improve our own method of server advertisements are not being stalled, nor dwindeling due to the existence of the OTServlist board.
Revamping the Server Gala board is something that we internally are, and have been, discussing for a while.
It's too early to give you guys a clear answer about these two topics, since nothing has been decided yet. I personally would not think that the OTServlist board will disappear anytime soon, although I cannot give you an official answer about it yet.

Just wanted to let you know that we've noticed the thread and the feedback from other users regarding these two topics.

Hope you guys are having a good day today, it's really nice weather here in Stockholm today! 🌞🌻
 
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kay

kay

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I read about two suggestions here, the first one is to remove the OTServlist board, and the second one is for OTLand to create our own OTSList. I can understand how the two suggestions can correlate with each other (but it's not a given). The board can still exist, whether or not we decide to adjust our own advertisement method of servers.

As has already been mentioned in a post above, OTServlist redirects traffic to OTLand (vice versa), and while neither I know the details of when and why the cooperation agreement between the two was made, I can still see the benefits of still having it.

I cannot give you an answer about removing OTServlist board, but I personally think that the pros outweigh the cons. And initiatives to improve our own method of server advertisements are not being stalled, nor dwindeling due to the existence of the OTServlist board.
Revamping the Server Gala board is something that we internally are, and have been, discussing for a while.
It's too early to give you guys a clear answer about these two topics, since nothing has been decided yet. I personally would not think that the OTServlist board will disappear anytime soon, although I cannot give you an official answer about it yet.

Just wanted to let you know that we've noticed the thread and the feedback from other users regarding these two topics.

Hope you guys are having a good day today, it's really nice weather here in Stockholm today! 🌞🌻

Thank you for your answer. However I don't see how it corresponds to the actual proposal.
That board clearly serves zero purpose for otland users. Even xinn himself stopped posting there in 2019. While I understand some traffic from google might be important, I still don't think it's reasonable to keep a board where no one answers anymore. And it does have negative effects that you won't measure by traffic. One particular service being pushed upon otland users - in a way which may even make people think it belongs to otland - may be stopping other initiatives. It also put otservlist itself to a stagnation. So instead of counting some clicks from google we should ask whether the current "solution" is good for the community overall and couldn't be improved. As a compromise I proposed to create a general "ots lists" board in its place, where people could present their own sites (and users discuss them, similarly to servers' advertisement) and where otservlist could still be present. So it's not like we're cutting it off and pretending it doesn't exist. But doesn't it sound way more reasonable to have one thread for otservlist, rather than two dead boards, whilst giving a chance for other initiatives to grow on the same conditions (and still generating traffic)? Fair competition is what pushes the world foward. You mentioned "pros and cons" check, but what are the actual cons of this proposal? I honestly don't see any.
Adjusting the 'server gala' is another story and completly unrelated.
 
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Kaspar

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Thank you for your answer. However I don't see how it corresponds to the actual proposal.
That board clearly serves zero purpose for otland users. Even xinn himself stopped posting there in 2019. While I understand some traffic from google might be important, I still don't think it's reasonable to keep a board where no one answers anymore. And it does have negative effects that you won't measure by traffic. One particular service being pushed upon otland users - in a way which may even make people think it belongs to otland - may be stopping other initiatives. It also put otservlist itself to a stagnation. So instead of counting some clicks from google we should ask whether the current "solution" is good for the community overall and couldn't be improved. As a compromise I proposed to create a general "ots lists" board in its place, where people could present their own sites (and users discuss them, similarly to servers' advertisement) and where otservlist could still be present. So it's not like we're cutting it off and pretending it doesn't exist. But doesn't it sound way more reasonable to have one thread for otservlist, rather than two dead boards, whilst giving a chance for other initiatives to grow on the same conditions (and still generating traffic)? Fair competition is what pushes the world foward. You mentioned "pros and cons" check, but what are the actual cons of this proposal? I honestly don't see any.
Adjusting the 'server gala' is another story and completly unrelated.
Ah, I misunderstood a part of your suggestion; to implement a general board for OTLists. Somehow I read it as in us creating our own OTList/board. My bad.
I do think my post addressed your suggestion though, so I'm not sure why you think it doesn't correspond to your proposal... Because it does—albeit not fully due to me misunderstanding the other part.
A possible con would be that we are breaking a possible agreement between OTServlist and OTLand. Where OTServlist redirects their users to OTLand with their "Forum" button, and where we let OTServlist have their own thing going on here. Thus, leading to us losing traffic (not sure how much traffic we are talking about here).

Regarding Xinn's activity, I cannot really say anything of use about it. All I know is that he is still active on OTLand if we are checking his last login date. He might be looking/reading actively on the boards as far as we are concerned.

As I've stated already, I'm not really giving you any official answers or anything with these two posts. I am merely posting to show that we've seen the suggestion and that we are/will be discussing it further. Thanks for the clarification regarding your proposal, Kay!
 

Silba

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I read about two suggestions here, the first one is to remove the OTServlist board, and the second one is for OTLand to create our own OTSList. I can understand how the two suggestions can correlate with each other (but it's not a given). The board can still exist, whether or not we decide to adjust our own advertisement method of servers.

As has already been mentioned in a post above, OTServlist redirects traffic to OTLand (vice versa), and while neither I know the details of when and why the cooperation agreement between the two was made, I can still see the benefits of still having it.

I cannot give you an answer about removing OTServlist board, but I personally think that the pros outweigh the cons. And initiatives to improve our own method of server advertisements are not being stalled, nor dwindeling due to the existence of the OTServlist board.
Revamping the Server Gala board is something that we internally are, and have been, discussing for a while.
It's too early to give you guys a clear answer about these two topics, since nothing has been decided yet. I personally would not think that the OTServlist board will disappear anytime soon, although I cannot give you an official answer about it yet.

Just wanted to let you know that we've noticed the thread and the feedback from other users regarding these two topics.

Hope you guys are having a good day today, it's really nice weather here in Stockholm today! 🌞🌻
Since you don't mention any pros or cons then your opinion on whether one outweighs the other doesn't really matter to anyone.
What does the otland team think about associating themselves with otservlist? otservlist is more anti open-tibia than a closed source 'ot' project and is arguably a big part of th reason for the dire state of ots today. It's a predatory platform that abuses it's customers and encourages malicious and corruptive behaviour of server owners, players and the community in general.


The sheer unprecedented support of this thread should mean something more than "we hear u but probably not lol"

otservlist is cancer, otland should not officially support them in any way.
 

xKrazyx

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I read about two suggestions here, the first one is to remove the OTServlist board, and the second one is for OTLand to create our own OTSList. I can understand how the two suggestions can correlate with each other (but it's not a given). The board can still exist, whether or not we decide to adjust our own advertisement method of servers.

As has already been mentioned in a post above, OTServlist redirects traffic to OTLand (vice versa), and while neither I know the details of when and why the cooperation agreement between the two was made, I can still see the benefits of still having it.

I cannot give you an answer about removing OTServlist board, but I personally think that the pros outweigh the cons. And initiatives to improve our own method of server advertisements are not being stalled, nor dwindeling due to the existence of the OTServlist board.
Revamping the Server Gala board is something that we internally are, and have been, discussing for a while.
It's too early to give you guys a clear answer about these two topics, since nothing has been decided yet. I personally would not think that the OTServlist board will disappear anytime soon, although I cannot give you an official answer about it yet.

Just wanted to let you know that we've noticed the thread and the feedback from other users regarding these two topics.

Hope you guys are having a good day today, it's really nice weather here in Stockholm today! 🌞🌻
I hope the screenshots below speak for themself... V cause saying the service provides more pros to this community in 2021 is laughable in my opinion. You could make a case back in 2015 sure, I would prob agree with you, but in 2021, all that site is, is an unfair environment for those who have do not have the knowledge on how to programmatically and systematically hide spoofing. The person who has used otservlist the most for the last 10 years... V
8ZEdci.jpg



From Xinn himself .. Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site? (https://otland.net/threads/should-otland-open-new-otserverlist-site.272217/post-2622469)
vXTzkJ.jpg
 
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kay

kay

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Ah, I misunderstood a part of your suggestion; to implement a general board for OTLists. Somehow I read it as in us creating our own OTList/board. My bad.
I do think my post addressed your suggestion though, so I'm not sure why you think it doesn't correspond to your proposal... Because it does—albeit not fully due to me misunderstanding the other part.

I didn't mean otland should run a list, because I have no idea whether there's any will for.
I linked a thread titled that, but I was referring to the discussion inside, where people talked about why there weren't any new lists coming out. As I believe the favoritism here is one of the reasons.

I meant a board, where people could create threads about their sites, in which otland users would discuss them and choose to which use, on equal and fair conditions. The way it is now I believe is one of the reasons why we don't see any alternative initiatives and otservlist itself is in a deep stagnation as well. This situation may be in favor of one's business, but not in favor of the community, and the number of redirected clicks won't cover that. The upvotes and attention this thread has shows that too.
You could still make a rule that each site appearing in such board must link otland on their homepage, for example. Honestly I wouldn't mind such rule for servers advertised in 'server gala' as well, if you want some traffic. Either way I think we can come to something better than status quo from 10 years ago. Not necessairly what I proposed, but it is something to think of.

A possible con would be that we are breaking a possible agreement between OTServlist and OTLand. Where OTServlist redirects their users to OTLand with their "Forum" button, and where we let OTServlist have their own thing going on here. Thus, leading to us losing traffic (not sure how much traffic we are talking about here).

The question is whether it is otservlist bringing new users to otland, or otland getting customers for otservlist, because I believe it's rather the latter.

Regarding Xinn's activity, I cannot really say anything of use about it. All I know is that he is still active on OTLand if we are checking his last login date. He might be looking/reading actively on the boards as far as we are concerned.

His last visit was over 3 weeks ago. His last post was in August 2020 and last posts in otservlist board: July 2019 and October 2018. The latest 13 threads in 'otservlist discussion' as well as 21 threads from 'dataspoof reports' are left with no answer whatsoever. Hardly an activity to me.
 
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Ahilphino

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I hope the screenshots below speak for themself... V cause saying the service provides more pros to this community in 2021 is laughable in my opinion. You could make a case back in 2015 sure, I would prob agree with you, but in 2021, all that site is, is an unfair environment for those who have do not have the knowledge on how to programmatically hide spoofing. The person who has used otservlist the most for the last 10 years... V
8ZEdci.jpg



From Xinn himself lmao Should OtLand Open New OtServerlist site? (https://otland.net/threads/should-otland-open-new-otserverlist-site.272217/post-2622469)
vXTzkJ.jpg

And where is his servers on otservlist?
U are the prime example of owners blaming otservlist. U spoofed your servers, u got banned. Now u sit here crying about how corrupt it is XDDDDDD Meanwhile u have succesful servers like tibiantis not being on otservlist, doing great. So how about u do something like that since u are banned


Where at? I haven't seen a link to OTLand (or a mention of the OTLand name) anywhere on OTServList, maybe I missed it.

He literaly said in the post how it links to otland. By pressing the forum button on otservlist
 

xKrazyx

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You jealous I have the ability to pull Xinn from afk mode after years? xD

And where is his servers on otservlist?
U are the prime example of owners blaming otservlist. U spoofed your servers, u got banned. Now u sit here crying about how corrupt it is XDDDDDD
From what I heard Marcus servers were banned cause he didnt randomize his spoof chars inventory hard enough (not confirmed but I did see a lot of screenshots) and enough ppl were spamming proof xinn had to take action. however that was YEARS after it should have been done. to your point yes I was banned for spoofing 1x by his auto system on launch without banner, however, I see plenty of other hosters on that list currently who were also banned 1x before.

I accepted my 30 day ban. I have no issue with that, said that many times. Servers such as Tibiantis and Medivia show you dont need that list at all anyway.. But to address your point, if I wanted to use that list , I would have never posted drama on otland.. I could have just waited 30 days and been unbanned... but nice dig tho

And to respond about "crying", im posting here that having any link to the service from this site is concerning in 2021, whether you label it "official" or not. Apart from that I could care-less.

To the 'monopoly' factor, I would like to bring up marks post about moving forward together and helping newcomers, being about opensource, not profit.

In my opinion, sending any newcomers over to otservlist is only sending them towards depression lol due to the environment I listed above

Like I said before many other places, I think this site should be advocating a place where servers are judged for the content of their server, not the online count.

The fact staff said they are thinking about improving Server Gala is good, and I very much appreciate that response :)
 
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kay

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Let's not turn this thread into a "who is corrupted" and "who is the spoofer" fiesta though. It only blurs the main subject. The reliability of otservlist is not the point here. Even with it being just and reliable, the fact that some commercial service is pushed upon otland users in such way alone denies the idea of an "open" community. And I don't really mind it earn money, just as servers' owners do earn money too. Like Mark has pointed - it's not essentialy free and it does take alot of effort. The issue is that currently using otservlist is kind-of imposed on the community.
Let's do it on conditions fair to everyone. I don't propose to remove otservlist existance from otland, but to make it function on equal rules with others so it's only up to the community which it chooses to use afterall.
 
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xKrazyx

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"If you're in an open-source community to make money, you're at the wrong place." - Mark
 
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Cafumbre

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Imagine remembering what some guy said once in a post on an online forum 8 years ago word for word. You need to find something to do in life and find other people to look up to.
 
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