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Some thoughts on the community openness direction

When did we lost the sense of a open project community and why 'big players' of the development are more and more away from it?

rich stay rich

poor stay poor
 
When did we lost the sense of a open project community and why 'big players' of the development are more and more away from it?

rich stay rich

poor stay poor
People have grown up, housing and food are not free.
 
People have grown up, housing and food are not free.

It's more than that. I think at least a big part of the problem is plain old greed.

People don't set up servers to learn, or to do something fun, or even make something nice they can make a living off.
They set them up with the sole focus being free money printers using cash shop/premium shop.

It used to be people set up servers because "that one server I played sucked I want to make something better" or "that one server I liked died I wanna remake it". But now it's "Hey this one server got a fat cash shop, I bet they're making lots of money. I want money too.".

It used to be a small subset of people, but now it's become ingrained into the community as a whole in the form of hoarding and selfishness.

Most people who has an account here uses it as free support, not to sit around and talk, or even help others.
It's login, get answer, logout, and then stay off until a problem happens.

Cool scripts get bought and sold privately, barely ever released to the community. Entire shut down server projects aren't released to the public but instead kept on old dusty harddrives forgot to time because "why should I release this for free?". Map projects are announced, anticipated and then unsurprisingly never gets released, but instead sold to someone behind closed doors.


The problem is that the community has gone from

"I should make a cool thing (or make this cool thing better), release it, and get some rep from the community"
(The true spirit of an open source community)

to

why-shouldnt-i-keep-it.gif
 
People have grown up, housing and food are not free.
im talking about admins of servers who will go as far as DDosing yours or crashing it just so theirs stays on top. different protocols different cultures. *vultures
 
It's more than that. I think at least a big part of the problem is plain old greed.

People don't set up servers to learn, or to do something fun, or even make something nice they can make a living off.
They set them up with the sole focus being free money printers using cash shop/premium shop.

It used to be people set up servers because "that one server I played sucked I want to make something better" or "that one server I liked died I wanna remake it". But now it's "Hey this one server got a fat cash shop, I bet they're making lots of money. I want money too.".

It used to be a small subset of people, but now it's become ingrained into the community as a whole in the form of hoarding and selfishness.

Most people who has an account here uses it as free support, not to sit around and talk, or even help others.
It's login, get answer, logout, and then stay off until a problem happens.

Cool scripts get bought and sold privately, barely ever released to the community. Entire shut down server projects aren't released to the public but instead kept on old dusty harddrives forgot to time because "why should I release this for free?". Map projects are announced, anticipated and then unsurprisingly never gets released, but instead sold to someone behind closed doors.


The problem is that the community has gone from

"I should make a cool thing (or make this cool thing better), release it, and get some rep from the community"
(The true spirit of an open source community)

to

View attachment 72840
and every time someone tries to do any of this there's an elitist allowed to shit all over them and then they either lose interest or will stop sharing. Poor moderation has been the ultimate downfall, elitism and greed exist in every open community, they're just drowned out usually instead of enabled. new talent is what's sorely missing and new talent is exactly what this community and moderators discourage actively. What's worse is that the moderation are completely 100% out of touch and/or simply don't care.
 
and every time someone tries to do any of this there's an elitist allowed to shit all over them and then they either lose interest or will stop sharing. Poor moderation has been the ultimate downfall, elitism and greed exist in every open community, they're just drowned out usually instead of enabled. new talent is what's sorely missing and new talent is exactly what this community and moderators discourage actively. What's worse is that the moderation are completely 100% out of touch and/or simply don't care.
and funnies part? I use google a lot and eventually ill search up whole forum and by tags i use ("I am literally pro google searches") I will find "elektroda example"
Asked before answered before code somewhat works or works fully.
even the catalogue if i can say this forum is just poorly documented hence my toughf of proper tfsx.wikia pages for all versions where we could throw all this stuff
 
Even in 2008 there were open-source projects, but their quality was nowhere near the current ones. The quality of code whether lua or c++ was definitely worse back then, but that's one of the reasons why people were more frequent on the forum + the tibia population was much larger. Now we have many different versions of engines, game clients and such complex scripts that the threshold to enter this world is also much higher. Just as then, so now there are closed-source projects that someone after time uploads as a leak to the web and everyone uses them. OTS has always been based on the work of various people, not always with their consent because no matter how much you change in the game itself it will still be a private server and not another game with its own brand. Even now almost all big servers used or still use graphics of other servers and complain that other people take their graphics, hypocrisy. Nowadays we have tools available and ready-made systems that no one would have written in the past, so there is nothing to complain about. But it's funny to read some comments where someone gets angry because someone else used someone else's code or graphics themselves having half the graphics from the original Tibia and thousands of sprites from other smaller or larger servers.
 
Even in 2008 there were open-source projects, but their quality was nowhere near the current ones. The quality of code whether lua or c++ was definitely worse back then, but that's one of the reasons why people were more frequent on the forum + the tibia population was much larger. Now we have many different versions of engines, game clients and such complex scripts that the threshold to enter this world is also much higher. Just as then, so now there are closed-source projects that someone after time uploads as a leak to the web and everyone uses them. OTS has always been based on the work of various people, not always with their consent because no matter how much you change in the game itself it will still be a private server and not another game with its own brand. Even now almost all big servers used or still use graphics of other servers and complain that other people take their graphics, hypocrisy. Nowadays we have tools available and ready-made systems that no one would have written in the past, so there is nothing to complain about. But it's funny to read some comments where someone gets angry because someone else used someone else's code or graphics themselves having half the graphics from the original Tibia and thousands of sprites from other smaller or larger servers.

This reminds me about that recent drama that happened on that OT Discord where someone leaked sprites and eeeeeeveryone got up in arms about how horrible it is that people can now access these sprites FOR FREE(!!!). And what a horrible crime it was to leak paid sprites, etc etc.

¯\(ツ)
 
@Gluttony @Rexxar
Just to address the sprites topic first which always gets brought up everywhere (it should really have its own thread so it doesn't derail other threads):
The difference between using Tibia sprites and sprites from Open Tibia developers is that one is necessary for the client to even work, the other one isn't, and Cipsoft is a multi-million dollar company, Open Tibia developers are not. That's the difference. This is why I encourage using encryption even if it's possible to break open, just like a bank safe inside a bank vault can be broken, but we still encourage safer options when we don't want people to steal our stuff, and there's no need to steal other open tibia developers stuff most of the time, especially not sprites, which is not about fixing bugs or anything, it's literally just looks.

When did we lost the sense of a open project community and why 'big players' of the development are more and more away from it?
In my opinion the moment otland decided it should have a monopoly on Open Tibia (advertising other open tibia communities not allowed? since when? where in the rules does it say so?), also trying to ban the entire Tor network so nobody can even view otland while using a proper anonymity tool for their own safety, while never improving their forum, blaming the community instead of ever taking responsibility themselves, unwilling to discuss infractions properly (or at all - saying "read the rules" isn't a discussion, it's a one-sided monologue), uninterested in feedback, banning web scrapers even if they run at a very slow space (1 connection every few seconds) because they want like I said a monopoly on Open Tibia and don't want anyone else to have an otland archive (in case anything ever happens to otland, so they will be needed and can terrorize the community if they want to by saying "if you leave us we will just delete the entire website and all the posts"), and yeah innovation is discouraged, scamming is encouraged, making up shit is encouraged, it's all just backwards, it's no longer otland imo, it's mafialand, where money and influence/authority decides what goes like in Iran or Saudi Arabia, not based on anything of its own merits.
 
@Gluttony @Rexxar
Just to address the sprites topic first which always gets brought up everywhere (it should really have its own thread so it doesn't derail other threads):
The difference between using Tibia sprites and sprites from Open Tibia developers is that one is necessary for the client to even work, the other one isn't, and Cipsoft is a multi-million dollar company, Open Tibia developers are not. That's the difference. This is why I encourage using encryption even if it's possible to break open, just like a bank safe inside a bank vault can be broken, but we still encourage safer options when we don't want people to steal our stuff, and there's no need to steal other open tibia developers stuff most of the time, especially not sprites, which is not about fixing bugs or anything, it's literally just looks.


In my opinion the moment otland decided it should have a monopoly on Open Tibia (advertising other open tibia communities not allowed? since when? where in the rules does it say so?), also trying to ban the entire Tor network so nobody can even view otland while using a proper anonymity tool for their own safety, while never improving their forum, blaming the community instead of ever taking responsibility themselves, unwilling to discuss infractions properly (or at all - saying "read the rules" isn't a discussion, it's a one-sided monologue), uninterested in feedback, banning web scrapers even if they run at a very slow space (1 connection every few seconds) because they want like I said a monopoly on Open Tibia and don't want anyone else to have an otland archive (in case anything ever happens to otland, so they will be needed and can terrorize the community if they want to by saying "if you leave us we will just delete the entire website and all the posts"), and yeah innovation is discouraged, scamming is encouraged, making up shit is encouraged, it's all just backwards, it's no longer otland imo, it's mafialand, where money and influence/authority decides what goes like in Iran or Saudi Arabia, not based on anything of its own merits.
if u kill 1 person u're murderer, if u kill 1000 u're still murderer, my opinion is noone should complain about stolen sprites or any leaks, entire opentibia is underground
 
The difference between using Tibia sprites and sprites from Open Tibia developers is that one is necessary for the client to even work, the other one isn't, and Cipsoft is a multi-million dollar company, Open Tibia developers are not.

That doesn't really excuse the hypocrisy of a private server community being butthurt over "stolen" sprites that should have been open to the community to begin with. Since they're using free and open tools to use them to begin with. A community mind you that has been stealing sprites from said multi-million dollar company for decades. It's plain dumb. Like pirates complaining about someone who re-encoded someone else's pirated release.

In my opinion the moment otland decided it should have a monopoly on Open Tibia (advertising other open tibia communities not allowed? since when? where in the rules does it say so?)

That's a common sense (sometimes unspoken) rule that's existed on forums for decades, and even discord servers (for less time).
No one wants you coming on their community advertising your own. It's rude and tasteless.

Also for the record, it's Rule #4. Yes I just looked it up. Yes it took me less than 15 seconds.
Website advertisement, as in creating a thread with the intention to advertise another website is not allowed.

also trying to ban the entire Tor network so nobody can even view otland while using a proper anonymity tool for their own safety

Every website with a webmaster worth their salt blocks TOR. It's the #1 go to tool for spammers.
Sure some people might use it for privacy, but 99% of TOR white-web access is malicious.

Most people who want internet access privacy uses VPNs which are far less janky and much more secure.

banning web scrapers even if they run at a very slow space (1 connection every few seconds) because they want like I said a monopoly on Open Tibia and don't want anyone else to have an otland archive

Or they simply don't want server resources wasted by a bunch of weirdos with CURL.
Google cache works fine which means they don't block all web scrapers.

(in case anything ever happens to otland, so they will be needed and can terrorize the community if they want to by saying "if you leave us we will just delete the entire website and all the posts")

Okay now you're just inventing boogeymen.

it's mafialand, where money and influence/authority decides what goes like in Iran or Saudi Arabia, not based on anything of its own merits.

Iran is an authoritarian regime who has murdered hundreds of women and children in the name of a twisted sense of religion.
Otland is a private server forum with staff that don't live up to your personal standards.

Those two are certainly not even remotely close to one another. Holy hell man.
 
Common sense isn't a rule, and not advertising other communities in an OPEN SOURCE community is not common sense either.
I was advertising a community that is literally trying to be the same community (english general open tibia community) except without the censorship, and with a focus on development, pretty similar to OTLand in this regard, the main sections are focused on development or support and downloads/releases etc.
Are you able to explain what's tasteless about that, trying to get rid of mindless infractions given out without citing a rule or addressing what their specific issue is and with 0 interest to ever discuss the infraction/issue by creating a new community?
If that gives a sour taste in your mouth I don't know what gives you a sweet taste, well actually I'm not being quite honest now, I know what gives you a sweet taste in your mouth - getting attention by acting like an obnoxious little brat that feeds off attention and derailing threads. I'm done wasting my time now, have a good one.

Creating a community simply because you got infractions on here speaks volumes about your intent to support it and the users on it.
And yes, advertising a community whose sole reason for existence is you wanting to sit on an admin immunity pedestal is tasteless as hell.
 
Creating a community simply because you got infractions on here speaks volumes about your intent to support it and the users on it.
And yes, advertising a community whose sole reason for existence is you wanting to sit on an admin immunity pedestal is tasteless as hell.
If you want to talk about tasteless, making all these assumptions and in your previous post talking about "stupid this, stupid that" broad generalized statements, that's what's tasteless here.
I trust your sense of taste as much as I trust a blind person's eyesight.
Let me know once you've come up with some actual arguments rather than just poisoning the well all day while being scared of putting forward any arguments of your own that others can critique in return.
 
If you want to talk about tasteless, making all these assumptions and in your previous post talking about "stupid this, stupid that" broad generalized statements, that's what's tasteless here.
I trust your sense of taste as much as I trust a blind person's eyesight.
Let me know once you've come up with some actual arguments rather than just poisoning the well all day while being scared of putting forward any arguments of your own that others can critique in return.
So much text here did you pay to Mrianura? scammer
 
If you want to talk about tasteless, making all these assumptions and in your previous post talking about "stupid this, stupid that" broad generalized statements, that's what's tasteless here.
I trust your sense of taste as much as I trust a blind person's eyesight.
Let me know once you've come up with some actual arguments rather than just poisoning the well all day while being scared of putting forward any arguments of your own that others can critique in return.

Yikes. I'm not even going to begin to stir that soup of personal attacks.
I hope whatever in your life is causing you to act this way gets better, bro. Peace.
 
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