Stop using tfs 0.x

[Drow Arrow]

TD;DR
1.x master race , 0.x sucks unless 7,x

 

[Codinablack]

Reading LUA or C++ does not make anyone a programmer. I dont consider myself a programmer. I think you are programmer when you can make unique complex programs from scratch.

As long as they understand the logic, and the syntax, and can write what they need in lua

So programmers must be able to write from scratch? Please give me the name of the programmer you know that has started everything they program from scratch...? Because I can write plenty of things from scratch in lua, and have. So now do I qualify as a programmer to you?

But a good programmer would utilize code and time both, if you have a damn good template of code for something that you are trying to do, you would be wise to start with that template, rather than wasting your time, I believe this to be more of a preference than anything, and plenty of coders use others code, ever heard of open-source?

 

[Drow Arrow]

So programmers must be able to write from scratch? Please give me the name of the programmer you know that has started everything they program from scratch...? Because I can write plenty of things from scratch in lua, and have. So now do I qualify as a programmer to you?

But a good programmer would utilize code and time both, if you have a damn good template of code for something that you are trying to do, you would be wise to start with that template, rather than wasting your time, I believe this to be more of a preference than anything, and plenty of coders use others code, ever heard of open-source?

hey IDK if you know but this entire forum is built on the work some "Programer" did from scratch., just saying

 

[WibbenZ]

I agree, the 0.x series are really oudated.
But lets say a 7.6 server <saying that since people seem to hate 8.x versions> would die since 1.1 does not support that version.
The BEST would be if it had a way to get pretty much any version (atleast the major used ones) working without major changes.

This way all versions would still work, but we would only have to focus on tfs 1.1.
Easier to keep npcs updated, lets say anni scripts (since thats an old quest) etc.

I don't get why most users here wanna force people to use the latest versions... If everyone wanted the latest version there would be no other versions that are used.

 

[Drow Arrow]

I agree, the 0.x series are really oudated.
But lets say a 7.6 server <saying that since people seem to hate 8.x versions> would die since 1.1 does not support that version.
The BEST would be if it had a way to get pretty much any version (atleast the major used ones) working without major changes.

This way all versions would still work, but we would only have to focus on tfs 1.1.
Easier to keep npcs updated, lets say anni scripts (since thats an old quest) etc.

I don't get why most users here wanna force people to use the latest versions... If everyone wanted the latest version there would be no other versions that are used.

I think you could (well.. this statement is build on the fact the one who wants to make a 7.x server is really good in c+) rewrites his 0.x or 1.x to make it compatible with each other. boom




I just wanted to make clear dont run a 10.10 server on 0.x, It's nothing but dumb.

 

[Raggaer]

Coding from scratch....

In some cases you dont really want to reinvent the wheel

 

[Codinablack]

hey IDK if you know but this entire forum is built on the work some "Programer" did from scratch., just saying

I never said programmers don't write from scratch, that would be just ignorant to say. Everything that is coded comes from either something else, or from scratch. It's not like someone made a computer and BOOM there were already coding languages with libraries and programs already made and working. I'm NOT that dumb, but to say you have to be able to make something from scratch is kind of far fetched but sure I can agree to that, but if that's the case what about computer scientists, I suppose they don't have to start from scratch, because they are learning the concepts, design, and science behind it all... that being said, would we really rather call them computer scientists? Also at the comment about someone writting this entire forum from scratch, maybe the engine, maybe, but it's doubtful, more probable that he used libraries, and as far as that goes, I guess anyone who can't code in assembly or machine language isn't a programmer, because all the fourth and fifth level programming languages are again based off the work of someone else...

 

[Flatlander]

Let me tell you all my history with TFS 1.x.

Before 1.0 was released, I tried it.
Of course the account manager was removed, so I had to re-create it and add my own.

Then I had to update a few functions to have more functionality.
For Example:
eventPlayerOnMoveItem needs to have fromContainer and toContainer for some scripts I do.
So I quit, and went back to my older version.

Then TFS 1.0 was released and I tried it again.
And after a few weeks, I realized I was simply wasting time, all this work I was putting into FIXING TFS to be as functional as my custom version of 0.3.6. I could actually be making progress on one of my projects.

And yes I did try it one more time at TFS 1.1, but it's still too much work.

And IF that was the only problem, maybe I would do the work. But I also noticed, at least to me, the way you have to script in TFS 1.x is absolutely illogical.

Just the backass backwords useless waste of time bullshit you have to do, to even identify a player in a script takes a whole line. What is the fucking point.
Anyways, I did not go to school from programming, I know nothing of Programming, I learn by trial and error and practice. And when I see something that looks 10x more complicated doing the exact same thing I'm already doing, I just say "Why would I waste my time".

And there is my rant on TFS 1.x

**Rant Continued**
Basically I see TFS 1.x as Linux.
Yay it uses less memory, and it's faster, and better TECHNICALLY.

But honestly TFS 0.3.6 is easier, everyone knows how to use it, and everyone has all their custom mods and programs that works with it.
You load up Linux and your like "Hmm I need to load a Virtual Environment of Windows to use all of my programs".

You load up TFS 1.x and your like "HMM I need to create an entire lib library fixing all the shit that was abitrarily fucked up for no reason".

You mine as well have wrote it all in pig latin. "Yep, new TFS 1.x update, Were changing all the functions to start with the end, and end with the beginning, and there will be a function to get "cid" instead of just using... well just typing in "cid". That was too easy.

 

[MiaFH]

Let me tell you all my history with TFS 1.x.

Before 1.0 was released, I tried it.
Of course the account manager was removed, so I had to re-create it and add my own.

Then I had to update a few functions to have more functionality.
For Example:
eventPlayerOnMoveItem needs to have fromContainer and toContainer for some scripts I do.
So I quit, and went back to my older version.

Then TFS 1.0 was released and I tried it again.
And after a few weeks, I realized I was simply wasting time, all this work I was putting into FIXING TFS to be as functional as my custom version of 0.3.6. I could actually be making progress on one of my projects.

And yes I did try it one more time at TFS 1.1, but it's still too much work.

And IF that was the only problem, maybe I would do the work. But I also noticed, at least to me, the way you have to script in TFS 1.x is absolutely illogical.

Just the backass backwords useless waste of time bullshit you have to do, to even identify a player in a script takes a whole line. What is the fucking point.
Anyways, I did not go to school from programming, I know nothing of Programming, I learn by trial and error and practice. And when I see something that looks 10x more complicated doing the exact same thing I'm already doing, I just say "Why would I waste my time".

And there is my rant on TFS 1.x

**Rant Continued**
Basically I see TFS 1.x as Linux.
Yay it uses less memory, and it's faster, and better TECHNICALLY.

But honestly TFS 0.3.6 is easier, everyone knows how to use it, and everyone has all their custom mods and programs that works with it.
You load up Linux and your like "Hmm I need to load a Virtual Environment of Windows to use all of my programs".

You load up TFS 1.x and your like "HMM I need to create an entire lib library fixing all the shit that was abitrarily fucked up for no reason".

You mine as well have wrote it all in pig latin. "Yep, new TFS 1.x update, Were changing all the functions to start with the end, and end with the beginning, and there will be a function to get "cid" instead of just using... well just typing in "cid". That was too easy.

Great answer flatlander that is what syntax, marcos and i tried to avoid explaining but you sure added things i dint even know. Thanks for taking your time.

 

[Flatlander]

Great answer flatlander that is what syntax, marcos and i tried to avoid explaining but you sure added things i dint even know. Thanks for taking your time.

In no way is TFS 1.x bad. It IS CLEARLY better than any other version of TFS ever created.

But my points are still valid.

 

[MiaFH]

In no way is TFS 1.x bad. It IS CLEARLY better than any other version of TFS ever created.

But my points are still valid.

Yeah is pratically what i think. Each person depending on the server they want to develop can choose based on disadvantages or advantages.

 

[zbizu]

@Codinablack I wrote absorb in my stat system, decided to not do reflect because this idea sucks in my opinion.
Reflect was possible even on 1.0, file \data\creaturescripts\scripts\AI_monster.lua in my evo datapack is an good example.

@dip'ah
Dear true programmer.
We are open community which use popular tfs versions so we can share stuff with each other and we don't really care about your "true programming skill".
You probably wouldn't write that yourself without examples provided by people who decided to make their first ot sources available for everyone, years ago.

Are you skilled and you wrote your own server? Good for you.
Actually tfs devs make optimizations and they know these sources well too. Here is what they did recently: https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/commits/master

Don't look at us from above just because you know c++. Your ot developing knowledge comes from stuff written by people who know more than you.
If you decide to use your knowledge to contribute with your changes we'd be very grateful. Otherwise your programming skill doesn't mean anything to us.

Yours "false programmer" and lua noob
Zbizu

 

[WibbenZ]

Let me tell you all my history with TFS 1.x.

Before 1.0 was released, I tried it.
Of course the account manager was removed, so I had to re-create it and add my own.

Then I had to update a few functions to have more functionality.
For Example:
eventPlayerOnMoveItem needs to have fromContainer and toContainer for some scripts I do.
So I quit, and went back to my older version.

Then TFS 1.0 was released and I tried it again.
And after a few weeks, I realized I was simply wasting time, all this work I was putting into FIXING TFS to be as functional as my custom version of 0.3.6. I could actually be making progress on one of my projects.

And yes I did try it one more time at TFS 1.1, but it's still too much work.

And IF that was the only problem, maybe I would do the work. But I also noticed, at least to me, the way you have to script in TFS 1.x is absolutely illogical.

Just the backass backwords useless waste of time bullshit you have to do, to even identify a player in a script takes a whole line. What is the fucking point.
Anyways, I did not go to school from programming, I know nothing of Programming, I learn by trial and error and practice. And when I see something that looks 10x more complicated doing the exact same thing I'm already doing, I just say "Why would I waste my time".

And there is my rant on TFS 1.x

**Rant Continued**
Basically I see TFS 1.x as Linux.
Yay it uses less memory, and it's faster, and better TECHNICALLY.

But honestly TFS 0.3.6 is easier, everyone knows how to use it, and everyone has all their custom mods and programs that works with it.
You load up Linux and your like "Hmm I need to load a Virtual Environment of Windows to use all of my programs".

You load up TFS 1.x and your like "HMM I need to create an entire lib library fixing all the shit that was abitrarily fucked up for no reason".

You mine as well have wrote it all in pig latin. "Yep, new TFS 1.x update, Were changing all the functions to start with the end, and end with the beginning, and there will be a function to get "cid" instead of just using... well just typing in "cid". That was too easy.

I can agree on this, trying to fix 8.6, haven't gotten around to even start to change protocolgame bytes..
But I must say I love the new scripting system, like in the 0.x series you would always have to use ex. doCreature and doPlayer for diffrent functions.
Right now you just have to remember class:function(), the position function will always ex. be class:getPosition().
Thats the thing I love about the 1.x series.

And that is pretty much the only reason why I would wanna make a 1.1 8.6 server, the script system.
Not only would it be easier to make new scripts, as ive said before ex. an anni script - would work for both 10.76 aswell as 8.6 etc.
Would be alot easier for others to take a copy and make it into another version, like 8.40 or w/e.
Idk I like 1.x.

 

[zbizu]

actually metatables are used since ever by npcsystem so it's possible to do compat libs for 0.4
(don't expect me to do it, I don't do 0.x stuff anymore)

 

[WibbenZ]

actually metatables are used since ever by npcsystem so it's possible to do compat libs for 0.4
(don't expect me to do it, I don't do 0.x stuff anymore)

Same here and ofc you could do it. But at the same time the code isen't as optmized.
So gonna continue with my project and hope for the best.

 

[StreamSide]

#pointlessthread

 

[Zerak]

Sure, TFS 1.* is better, we agree with that but we are way too lazy to upgrade and then fix all the issues we will get.
As long as 0.4 works, why not use it?

EDIT:
But sure, I suggest you to make a TFS 1.* if you're new to OTs.

 

[Red]

I agree with @Flatlander, 1.x lacks/lacked some functions/features that we, in 2015, should consider "basic." I, personally, have never advocated for the stripping of features (looking at you, onMove) just because the code isn't the best in theory. Yes, there's a better way to implement onMove, but why remove it before providing the better solution?

But honestly TFS 0.3.6 is easier, everyone knows how to use it

I love the work that you do, and you're a more talented programmer/scripter than I probably ever will be; I have to disagree with you here.
TFS 0.3.6 being "easier" could only be due to the fact that some people have more practice with it.


doPlayerSetStorageValue
playerSetStorageValue
setPlayerStorageValue
doCreatureSetStorageValue
creatureSetStorageValue
setCreatureStorageValue
doPlayerSetStorage
doCreatureSetStorage
creatureSetStorage
playerSetStorage


Which function is correct? I was very hesitant to convert to metatable methods until I got a bit of practice under my belt. Now, when I make a script, I rarely reference the documentation; in the past I needed to keep a tab with the documentation open at all times because the precise syntax of the code was almost impossible to remember. Now, if I want to set a storage value I can easily write:

player:setStorageValue

And I will never screw the code up. It requires a slightly different method of thinking but I find it superior and more congruent.

and everyone has all their custom mods and programs that works with it.

I'm sorry. But mods should have never been implemented. The only reason to use mods is to make a system easily copy-pastable.

You load up TFS 1.x and your like "HMM I need to create an entire lib library fixing all the shit that was abitrarily fucked up for no reason".

I spent a good month creating a compat between 0.4 (or 0.3.6) and 1.0. Yes, it's time I didn't want to waste but once my compat was complete it's been smooth sailing. "arbitrarily fucked up for no reason" is because 1.x was never meant to be a compat for 0.3.x or 0.4. It was meant to be compat for 0.2.

Logically, I find 1.x sound; at least more so than 0.x series. My only grievance is that I don't think the end-user is always considered when making changes. But anyone with enough knowledge to hold their own should be able to make up for that issue.
Red

 

[dip'ah]

@dip'ah
Dear true programmer.
We are open community which use popular tfs versions so we can share stuff with each other and we don't really care about your "true programming skill".
You probably wouldn't write that yourself without examples provided by people who decided to make their first ot sources available for everyone, years ago.

Are you skilled and you wrote your own server? Good for you.
Actually tfs devs make optimizations and they know these sources well too. Here is what they did recently: https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver/commits/master

Don't look at us from above just because you know c++. Your ot developing knowledge comes from stuff written by people who know more than you.
If you decide to use your knowledge to contribute with your changes we'd be very grateful. Otherwise your programming skill doesn't mean anything to us.

Yours "false programmer" and lua noob
Zbizu

The community was most alive when there was variety of OTs, different client versions, different ways to doing scripts.
But all you guys today want people to do the same fucking thing over and over..
No wonder why there's 100000000000000000 Rl maps of the same damn client version......

Only offer 1 thing in the salads bar doesn't make people wanna come to that store.. variety does.
Also when people search for support when everything is the same, there's no need for people to give other support than "fuck you use search this has been posted for TFS 1.0 5000 times already"..

There's no other option for noobs than stick with something that's absolutely not rare at all, just follow everyone else, and there's nothing for supporters to do that finding links of already posted stuffs.
Just think about it, OT-community started to seriously die, when people started to say "delete that and download latest TFS like everyone else".

Sure you can change client version of TFS, but do you expect a new noob being able to do that?.. nop..

 

[zbizu]

But all you guys today want people to do the same fucking thing over and over..

Do you want to know the definition of insanity? XD