Tibiantis - reversed old Tibia project - discussion thread

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kay

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When I think of old time tibia playing, exploring everything for a first time was great experience. Today otses is just standard going to known resp places to exp as fast as u can, so I just don't play on those without custom map/mechanics.

So my question is - any custom content will be available on Mainland?
Ofc I read part, where u said there will be changed quests and it's great, but will there be any added map/monsters (not just modified)?
I'm sure, that if after few days server will feel alive, I'm gonna buy premium just to explore edited Ankrahmun, but it would be cool to know exploring rl map of Mainland (yet again...) is worth it, bc u can find some new interesting stuff ;].

Btw those won't keep me going, yea I know, that I'm pleb ;/
As it was stated - yes, custom content will exist (other than changed "ankrahmun"). You may always find something unexpected here and there, expanded plot, a new place, some new quests (minor or 'epic') etc. But it's focused on this kind of stuff more than new spawns, so in terms of map-editing those will be rather slight changes. Certainly not as drastic as the "new ankrahmun". We want to keep the Mainland original look but also have something to surprise, cause, as you said, it's not so exciting when you know there's nothing else to find.
Apart from that, in the future we may develop more custom content - sensu stricto - in new updates.

what about the items level will they have level requirements because in old tibia you could collect 100 pieces of iron to make a sword and a lvl 8 could use a decent sword as long as they had decent sword fighting
I don't know what you mean with the iron.
Weapons don't have level requirements.
 

Monte

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@kay Hi.
Firstly thank you for your work and dedication with this project.
I would like to play this server, and no matter what, I probably will at least for a bit.
Having been out of this community fot a while, I think this ot would be a great fun to get back to.

There is just one thing that bothers me, as y understanding is there will be no tasks because they make the retro gamrplay easier and I tottally agree with you when it comes to exp tasks. However I think that it would be a major factor for rpg players to stay playing on this ot once it 'dies out' like all of them do to introduce tasks for even decoration items. It would make people hunt less huntable monsters and spread people out a bit on the map.
 
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@Monte
Tasks have nothing to do with RPG (role playing), honestly. Apart from that, you make a valid point about hunting "less huntable monsters". We have a bit different idea for that however. As for tasks - it is under consideration, we will see about that. For sure we do not want tasks that only boost exp/profit, but as you said - some minor decoration rewards would not harm. :)
 

ralke

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nice project, i would really like to try this, hope you can enable a proxy or something less laggy for people in Chile, regards
 

DzonyZony

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have you some date in mind to start server?
 
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@ralke
Unfortunately, proxy doesn't help at all in a way people seem to think it would. Even if we provided proxy server located in USA, for example, you'd most likely feel very slight to none difference. The best you can do is using a GPN such as wtfast, pingzapper etc., that may optimize your connection individually on the whole route and reduce your ping significantly. But even this cannot cut the distance.
We can promise to choose the best host possible, but cannot fix everyone's routing.

@DzonyZony
We are still counting on Christmas time (which would be somewhere between 20th and 30th December), but we can't assure it just yet, as there's still much to do.
Also, since we were asked for this many times, we'd like to open a test server first - but with all custom content disabled of course - for a week or two, to let people see for themselves the server is indeed well made before it starts.
 
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Worr

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Did rookgaard mino hell use to overspawn? I played almost exclusively as a rookstayer during that version and I don't have any memories of that occurring down there.
 

Okke

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Did rookgaard mino hell use to overspawn? I played almost exclusively as a rookstayer during that version and I don't have any memories of that occurring down there.
You indeed don't have any memories of that occurring, because that is just a mere superstition. Reverse engineering on their leaked binary from 7.7 showed that spawns were dynamic, but not so much, they would have their spawn time rate based on how many people were online at a certain time.

Best Wishes,
Okke :)
 
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You indeed don't have any memories of that occurring, because that is just a mere superstition. Reverse engineering on their leaked binary from 7.7 showed that spawns were dynamic, but not so much, they would have their spawn time rate based on how many people were online at a certain time.

Best Wishes,
Okke :)
What you're saying has nothing to do with overspawn. In 7.7 it obviously couldn't exist, as it was supposedly replaced with anti-luring system in 7.5 update. No one said this specific one was reverse-engineered. We do RE the 7.7 binary to know how things worked, but we also downgrade them accordingly to 7.4.

And it did work in mino hell, unless we say that many minos used to respawn there normally. There's plenty of screenshots from versions 6.X to 7.4 showing 20+ minos on the lowest floor (and only 5 minos in the leaked resp file), and I do remember that mino-crowd myself as well.
There are also screenshots and movies with overspawn due to roping monsters up. @Worr
For mino hell screenshots you may want to check this folder: Bottom floor - Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UmsGIv8Po17ZjtvNd902suUxShlMiN2R)
 
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Okke

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I believe only in code I read or reverse-engineer myself, sadly there is no 7.4 binary engine out, believing pictures is just pointless, you'll never know the very truth without the code.

I still think that, if overspawn was ever a thing, within 3 years from 2001 to 2004, since the 7.1 version came out, they would've fixed that pretty quick. I myself started playing tibia back in 2003 and I have no memories about seeing such a thing.

Also if you're in the reverse-engineering scene and you're doing your job right, you should know that they don't have such a spawn setting as "only in minotaur hell there'll be overspawn". Back then if you were to run somewhere and found a monsterless spot you were sure that someone had taken them to train or have killed them not so long ago.

Just a side note: The last floor of minotaur hell (where the minotaur mage is located) has only 5 minotaurs that spawn every 600 seconds in the real files.
 
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Also if you're in the reverse-engineering scene and you're doing your job right, you should know that they don't have such a spawn setting as "only in minotaur hell there'll be overspawn".
Nowhere it is said it only worked in that place, so the hell you're talking about?
Believe the RE'd code, good for you. I believe that too, but 7.7 in many terms is different than 7.4. And believing pictures and recordings from that era is still wiser than believing just your own memories, or - even worse - assuming that anything from before 7.7 did not exist, because it cannot be RE'd. That's just ignorant.
As I said, there's plenty of sources.
Did you even check the screenshots? Mind explaining to me, how that many minos could appear out of only 5?

I still think that, if overspawn was ever a thing, within 3 years from 2001 to 2004, since the 7.1 version came out, they would've fixed that pretty quick. I myself started playing tibia back in 2003 and I have no memories about seeing such a thing.
And who says they'd even care to fix it back then? Who says it was even a bug?
They didn't 'fix' uhtrap until 7.5 either, same as many other things. Or you're gonna deny the existance of uhtrap as well since it cannot be RE'd from 7.7 binary and all movies could be faked? 😂
 
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Okke

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How are you supposed to remove or lure any minotaur from their spawn point?

Here is a picture showing their spawn area (yellowish area), the map has been compiled from the real .sec files and contains information about the spawn area:


There is no way of pulling them out of there alive, so that they could respawn.

The only explanation that I can possibly have is that you've got that information from a wrong source.
 
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There's nothing like "spawn area" in the original file, only a point. Spawn area is an OTS thing. First you're speaking of beliving the real cody only, and then you base your argument on some 'converted' map you've found somewhere? And yet you dare to speak about "wrong sources"? oh, irony.
Secondly, in 7.4 respawn algorithm was also different. Monsters always spawned next to each other counterclockwise, as shown on the pic below, not in distance on a wider area.



And last, but not least, I guess these old recordings were also faked?

103 rotworms on the stack (only about ~80 possible to lure from all the floors of that cave, 79 I've counted)

A whole stack of snakes (only 10 spawn in the cave)

The description under the 2nd movie even says:
"In the olden times monsters' respawn was basicly unlimited. In fact, I could rope these snakes from down the cave for 24 hours, which would result in an impressive result =] May the good old and unforgettable times come back"
Written by Rookguardian de'Bove.

Now, I've atleast done some research, I do have screenshots and recordings from various sources, but what do YOU have? Just your own biased memory and the leaked files, which are totally irrelevant for the version (and which I've reverse-engineered length and breadth myself too).
I'd like to hear some other conclusions, I don't reject the thought that I might be wrong at some point. But you cannot base yours statements on anything valid. You're just being highly ignorant here, came to deny what I said by your own "because I don't remember" and claiming that all my 'sources' are wrong and fake.
 
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Okke

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Both movies are not from Tibia 7.4, also what is the point of the monsters spawning clockwise or not, they cannot spawn when you're standing there anyways. My simple opinion and some thrown facts and a picture are just enough for you to call me highly ignorant and my memory biased, I no longer feel the need of having a chat no more, enough of internet for today.
 
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Both movies are not from Tibia 7.4
The 2nd one actually IS from Tibia 7.41, you can see a date of 29th July 2005 in the beginning. That's just a week before update to 7.5.

also what is the point of the monsters spawning clockwise or not, they cannot spawn when you're standing there anyways.
In 7.7 monsters belonging to one home spawned on a wider area, away from each other, so I thought maybe that was what you referred to as "spawn area", I don't know. That's how the algorithm worked, but no area was defined 'per se' in the spawns file, so I have no idea where you got that from in your "compiled map". And I've side-noted that the algorithm was way different back in 7.4 anyway (monsters spawning around the point).

My simple opinion and some thrown facts and a picture are just enough for you to call me highly ignorant and my memory biased, I no longer feel the need of having a chat no more, enough of internet for today.
You've come to my thread and called my research a "superstition", but you did not care to atleast check it carefuly (when I literally put it in your face to let you verify for yourself) or provide any valid counter-point whatsoever. You haven't thrown any fact in here, dude. This is the only reason I called you ignorant, not the opinion itself.
And I didn't mean to offend your memories, but memories are always biased (and faulty) as a matter of one's perception. That's also why it's an ignorance to rely on your memory only, and deny every other source.

Here, at 3:10~, we can see that the usual spawn in mino hell was 5 minos, just as in 7.7, so all these occurrences of 20+ minos in the room must have happened due to overspawn:

Also at 0:58 you may spot an overspawn in bear cave (12 bears, when only 7 respawn there), and some rot hell in the beginning.

Here you can see more pics of rot hell (up to ~20 rotworms, with only 5 rots possible + 2 more to be roped as for 7.7).

Of course, not all of them come from 7.4, but some certainly DO, and as I said, it worked since atleast 6.X to 7.4 (might have worked since ever and was probably removed in 7.5 when anti-luring was introduced instead, I did not find anything from 7.5 or newer). Sure, we can't truly know how things worked without the code, but there's enough of legit sources to conclude what I've concluded. And nothing so far to support your opinion.
 
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Astrax

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Monsters did overspawn before 7.5 for sure, I don't know why people are arguing that, just search for old mino hell Screenshoots.

Here are some of the things that in my experience "authentic" 7.4 servers always get wrong (probably already mentioned in the OP):
  • Monster behavior in general
  • Monsters shouldn't move AT ALL when you're not in their floor
  • Monsters should respawn when they're moved from their spawn point (aka "overspawning")
  • Monsters can spam attacks (especially distance attacks... just look at old videos featuring fire devils or mino mages, these lowly creature could combo off a level 40 mage easily)
  • Pitfalls NEVER work as they should:
An open pitfall used to close EXACTLY 5 minutes after it was FIRST opened (if someone falls in 4 minutes after it was opened, it will still close after 1 minute)
When you throw items above a closed pitfall, the items stay ABOVE.
All the items above a closed pitfall should fall inside when it is opened.
You can push other players / monsters into closed pitfalls (and they of course open)
Monsters don't "detect" closed pitfalls (i.e. they can fall inside without someone having to push them in).
  • You should be able to rope un-passable items into the same spot, OR throw them into stairs. (i.e. I should be able to push TWO desks into stairs, and they will be stacked on the floor above/below)
  • When closing a door with someone standing on it, the player should always get sent to the front (never to the sides or to the back, even if there's something in the way)
  • The client receives information from floors above/below in very specific ways (yeah, I used an advanced cheat tool back in the day that allowed me to spy floors above/below and analyze all the packets coming into the client).
When standing at the ground floor, the client ONLY receives information from the floors ABOVE. You can, in no way receive information from underground floors, 100% sure of it.
When standing BELOW the ground floor, the client receives information from up to 2 floors BELOW, and 2 floors ABOVE (here I'm not sure if you could look at the ground above, I think not.
When standing ABOVE the ground floor, the client receives information from 2 floors above and 2 below, down to the ground floor.
And a very minor one...
- Rookgaard temple shouldn't be a protection zone (I know, this is ridiculous, but I remember making some stupid traps in real tibia where I lured cave rats all around the initial spawn point for new players inside the temple lol)

Personal suggestion: Use some kind of custom client, or it'll be a cheating hell.
 
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@Astrax
That's a quality post. As a player I was always bothered by these things myself as well. But many don't know the real Tibia 7.4 mechanics, they think all these "oldschool" OTS around are accurate, so they will either argue or tell you that "no one cares". But people DO care, we lately get alot of feedback like yours.
The most amusing thing to me, which you haven't mentioned, is teleporting yourself with pots. I ran into many arguments with pro "oldschool" players who claimed it worked back in the days and they even "remembered" using it. 😂 When it's just an OTS thing.

As for what you listed:
  • On Tibiantis monsters behavior is correct. We use "AI" that was reverse-engineered out of 7.7 binary and it's pretty much the same as for 7.4. The only possible difference that I know of could be some bug in pathfinding in the older versions - that made monsters sometimes do a weird diagonal back step, when chasing you in open area (with no obstacles or anything). It was very rare though. Apart from that, the behavior should be accurate.
    They don't move when no player on their floor, they do respawn when lured away and they can spam attacks (under some conditions, I could tell which and why, but it's better if players got to learn a "new" mechanics by themselves :)).
  • Pitfalls work correctly, you can push monsters, or make them fall, into it etc.
  • You can rope unpassable items, such as tables, under yourself, or stack them on stairs. In one popular "oldschool" OTS, that claims to be another game now, I once owned a guildhall in Senja, which has no other squares around ladder leading from 0 to -1, so it didn't allow me to rope any table that I had put in the basement. I also couldn't destroy them with weapon, as it didn't work either (although it should work in 7.4 already), so it got completly stuck lol. Until I figured out that desintegrate was also bugged so you could use it in PZ.
  • Rookgaard temple isn't a protection zone. In the same OTS I once made a different "trap". Since they have PZ in temple there, you can block it permanently by placing rats outside of it with some boxes behind them. There is no way to get out of temple anyhow. 😂
    The one that you described is funnier, but easy to break simply by logging in a few times. You'll always deal some hits before you die, so you eventually break through and since you can't lose anything on dying it's not a big deal. Believe it or not, but I even tested it a few days ago.
    Another minor thing is that OTS often use "non-pvp zone" for Rookgaard, but the way Cip handled it was disallowing 'mark attack' function for no vocation characters. So technically, runes would still work for killing people in Rookgaard, if you could get them somehow of course.
    In newer Tibia people brought many various items to Rook due to a bug, so I guess you can still go and PK others in Rook lol

Personal suggestion: Use some kind of custom client, or it'll be a cheating hell.
Using original client doesn't mean it's not modified and we let people log in just with ip-changer, don't worry. 😂 We ofc have our own code attached to it. OTClient doesn't change anything in that case, I could give you an example of currently running "7.4" server that's apparently a botting heaven, despite using an own OTC.
What matters is what code you add to the client, what kind of detection you have server-side, and your own activity and willingness to ban people for cheating. Only all these 3 things together may work, relying on one will get you nowhere.
If anyone claims to have a magic "antibot client" that blocks any kind of cheating, so that he doesn't need to do anything else, it's a lie. Even BattleEye can be passed by.
 
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