Tibiantis - reversed old Tibia project - discussion thread

[Tony32]

Nope. Someone who is on screen 100% of the time and just cast runes. No autologout.
How can that be predictable?

No way they play 20 mcs manually, no way. At the computer or not, spellcasters, food eaters, container/item movement are predictable when bots are doing all the work. Also, there are simple ways of seeing if someone is running on a VM on the same hardware.
Even if they would use VMs on different hardware with a unique ip per MC, the bots themselves are easily detectable.
Even IF they are running 20 chars manually, on 20 VMs with different IPs, how would they dance at the same time? There is just no way.
And if you're saying they arent using bots, then they arent really cheaters are they?

Edit:

Nope. Someone who is on screen 100% of the time and just cast runes. No autologout.

Just cast runes? you mean spellcaster for making runes? Then that's an easy point of detection.
Extremely random cast times? Check X,Y clicks and "drags" for moving blank runes. = Ez detection once again

 

[kay]

I think it's no point to speak with you... EVEN if someone is on the PC and using tools like casting runes you can just add them mana and check... There is a lot of methods.

Adding mana is not too effective, it only requires 2 lines of code to bypass. It also doesn't catch macros. But as you said, there's a lot of variant methods to use. You just need to know how cheats work and think a bit more 'outside the box' (instead of using the same common methods all the time).
Also, I'm guessing that Antony is still refering to MCs, not necessairly bots/macros. There are also many ways to check how characters are connected, they don't have to be on the same IP, nor the same machine. But it's no point to elaborate and let them know what they should watch out for, while he will keep saying "no man, it's impossible, they use VPN!!!" anyway.
The reason why hosters want you to think it's impossible is that they either don't care or don't want to decrease their online numbers, and that's a good excuse. Same as NASA-developed self-learning neural-network tibia bots

 

[coma]

​

* One of the long-forgotten mechanics was also the so-called "overspawn". Few remember, but up to - and including - version 7.4 monsters used to respawn again when their previous instance went too far from the spawn site (or changed floor). Thanks to this, some places called as "hell" often turned out to be hell not only by name

But don't worry, monsters in this version do not move on their own, when there's nobody nearby on the same floor, so they will not overspawn by themselves.

There areas in Tibia that require luring away undesireable monsters for proper hunting, will this feature prevent players from doing this?

 

[Scollen]

There areas in Tibia that require luring away undesireable monsters for proper hunting, will this feature prevent players from doing this?

They don't got Tomb so for them places there is no need to lure monsters.

Also they are giving a "true" old tibia, meaning that yes, that feature will prevent players from luring certain monsters just to gain higher exp by easier monster only. That's how tibia was designed.

I loved to make rotworm traps in venore, spent hours and hours doing this. Roped 100~ rotworms to a stack and then roped players onto the stack. Same with larvas etc.. <3 haha

 

[w8w8w8]

They don't got Tomb so for them places there is no need to lure monsters.

Also they are giving a "true" old tibia, meaning that yes, that feature will prevent players from luring certain monsters just to gain higher exp by easier monster only. That's how tibia was designed.

I loved to make rotworm traps in venore, spent hours and hours doing this. Roped 100~ rotworms to a stack and then roped players onto the stack. Same with larvas etc.. <3 haha

luring away some shitty mobs on orc fortress allows you to get better xp/h. or luring away 2x DS near entrance to hellgate and hunting ghouls and skele with mino archer / as knight. or hunting deeper in hg as knight with ds lured away. There are plenty of places that you could use luring mobs out.
But yea, there won't be luring away mobs due to overspawn

 

[kay]

luring away some shitty mobs on orc fortress allows you to get better xp/h. or luring away 2x DS near entrance to hellgate and hunting ghouls and skele with mino archer / as knight. or hunting deeper in hg as knight with ds lured away. There are plenty of places that you could use luring mobs out.
But yea, there won't be luring away mobs due to overspawn

It's not like monster moves one square and gets doubled. There's a certain limit after which it will respawn (except for changing floor - this will always trigger new spawn). So weak monsters, like in orc fortress, can still be trapped with parcels, if it's not too far. You can also let them run on red hp, they won't cross the line as fleeing. Same as it was with anti-luring - fleeing monsters couldn't run to disappear, they would turn around once they reach the limit.

 

[Under Influence]

It's not like monster moves one square and gets doubled. There's a certain limit after which it will respawn (except for changing floor - this will always trigger new spawn). So weak monsters, like in orc fortress, can still be trapped with parcels, if it's not too far. You can also let them run on red hp, they won't cross the line as fleeing. Same as it was with anti-luring - fleeing monsters couldn't run to disappear, they would turn around once they reach the limit.

Can you explain why bear room had minotaurs in every sqm in the trap? They were lured from same floor and spawn was very close to the room.

Also places like dwarven hell, mino hell were complete nuts, because people that went down to check would double/triple the spawn beneath.

Maybe it was changed in 7.2 when they made monsters run away.... But Im sure at some point, that limit you talk about didnt exist.

 

[kay]

Can you explain why bear room had minotaurs in every sqm in the trap? They were lured from same floor and spawn was very close to the room.

Also places like dwarven hell, mino hell were complete nuts, because people that went down to check would double/triple the spawn beneath.

Maybe it was changed in 7.2 when they made monsters run away.... But Im sure at some point, that limit you talk about didnt exist.

It's very close, but not just one square. For example in mino hell the west spawn is placed over 10 squares from the stairs, and that could be enough. Overspawn could happen when someone ran for rewards and then back to stairs, right?
We don't know how exactly it worked, and I don't think there's any way to check. Except for the fact that monsters respawned due to changing floor - that one is confirmed.

I could ask counter-questions here: have you ever seen a double spawn of a black knight (even on screenshot)?
Or why was that guy hitting poison spiders to red hp and then let them run? If it'd spawn after having moved 1 square anyway?

As you can see, it's not as easy to tell. For those reasons I personally doubt there was no limit at all. Overspawn in many other places would have been really common then.

 

[Under Influence]

Nevermind

 

[Antony Cordeiro]

@kay Hello just a question about old tibia 7.4 which i am not sure how is real formula and will be on your server:

for example if i am killing a dragon lord and i cast exeta res 1 second before it goes red hp: the DL will run away from me or will still stay close so i can kill without running away? (considering i am Knight)

 

[Trifer]

Even IF they are running 20 chars manually, on 20 VMs with different IPs, how would they dance at the same time? There is just no way.
And if you're saying they arent using bots, then they arent really cheaters are they?

Edit:


Just cast runes? you mean spellcaster for making runes? Then that's an easy point of detection.
Extremely random cast times? Check X,Y clicks and "drags" for moving blank runes. = Ez detection once again

Simply clicking on food in your bp works as anty idle, no need to be dancing. And as for mouse clicks there's ways to slightly randomize those too. For eg. this bit of script does it.
global hClient
keywait, lbutton
keywait, rbutton
BlockInput, mouse
rand_x := NormalRand(-8,8)
rand_y := NormalRand(-8,8)
keg_pos_x := kegx + rand_x
keg_pos_y := kegy + rand_y

 

[kay]

Nevermind

Just as we spoke in discord, I'll post it cause some other people might be curious too
So when we ran into the problem of how exactly overspawn worked, we had to somehow estimate. The fact that monsters re-spawned after being roped by only 1 floor was confirmed. But for luring on the same floor it was more tricky.
It couldn't be just 1 square, because monsters that appear in packs already do spawn 1 square away from its home. So there had to be some certain limit. And since we know minotaurs often used to overspawn in mino hell (bottom floor) we can also get to conclusion the radius must have been lower than 12 squares. What we then took into account was a black knight spawn, because it was never noted to appear doubled. It spawns in the middle of room, having 8 squares each side (except for north). It kinda even looks like it was designed to prevent overspawn. If that was the case, it gives us radius in range of [8, 11].

Assuming they would probably use some rounded value, it leaves us with either 8 or 10 and that's how we're going to set the default value in Tibiantis. @Under Influence implied it was most likely 8, because of the minotaur in bear room (chain armor quest).
Altough, we use very similar mechanism that Cip later used for anti-luring, means we can configure the radius for each spawn seperately, if needed.
The 'invisible barrier' for when monsters are fleeing is taken straight from anti-luring system, we don't know if it existed for overspawn too, but we let it be for now, to allow getting rid of very weak monsters the way that guy did in the yt cam above. Ofc it will not work if the monster was already lured over it. We will see how it goes tho, it can be removed if anything.

@kay Hello just a question about old tibia 7.4 which i am not sure how is real formula and will be on your server:

for example if i am killing a dragon lord and i cast exeta res 1 second before it goes red hp: the DL will run away from me or will still stay close so i can kill without running away? (considering i am Knight)

It will run away when it's below 300 HP, no matter if you use exeta res before.

Simply clicking on food in your bp works as anty idle, no need to be dancing. And as for mouse clicks there's ways to slightly randomize those too. For eg. this bit of script does it.
global hClient
keywait, lbutton
keywait, rbutton
BlockInput, mouse
rand_x := NormalRand(-8,8)
rand_y := NormalRand(-8,8)
keg_pos_x := kegx + rand_x
keg_pos_y := kegy + rand_y

Amusing

 

[ekw]

dont take it wrong im a lover not hater but are you gonna keep talking about server features forever or you gonna let us play one day ?

 

[popoverde]

dont take it wrong im a lover not hater but are you gonna keep talking about server features forever or you gonna let us play one day ?

Agreed

o hai im working on shitsoft projekt 7.4 features and mechaniKs. stay t00ned. s00n

 

[Typloshiion]

I rather wait for good server 1 year than start another edition of 2 week ots then change server,



but yea, if u say soon, then it should be soon. and u said soon 1 month ago.

 

[Valar]

It's gonna be funny if server will last shorter than time of preparation
We both know story of OTS servers, community is based on server jumpers, no matter if your rotworm works correctly or not.

 

[kay]

I rather wait for good server 1 year than start another edition of 2 week ots then change server,



but yea, if u say soon, then it should be soon. and u said soon 1 month ago.

I really wish we could already provide an exact date, but the project is still in progress. We've been delayed by unexpected rl-related stuff lately. That's why we don't want to say anything else but "soon". However, we only have to fix 1 issue now and finish configuring host etc. to run a test server, it should be a matter of days till we can post more concrete info.
All I can promise is that it's worth waiting

It's gonna be funny if server will last shorter than time of preparation
We both know story of OTS servers, community is based on server jumpers, no matter if your rotworm works correctly or not.

The community consist on a big variety of players. Saying that no one will play, because they'd rather jump from server to server is merely a cliche. Same as "nobody will play on 1x, we are not 15 years old anymore", "nobody will play without farms", "no one cares about real mechanics", "only war teams propel ot servers" etc.
It all comes from people who look only through their own prism. Not everyone has to join, but there're still people who prefer such type of servers over jumping from one highrate to another.

 

[popoverde]

here rotworms work 100% shitsoft, dont worry

 

[kay]

Rotworm is no achievement, hunters are

 

[Valar]

The community consist on a big variety of players. Saying that no one will play, because they'd rather jump from server to server is merely a cliche. Same as "nobody will play on 1x, we are not 15 years old anymore", "nobody will play without farms", "no one cares about real mechanics", "only war teams propel ot servers" etc.
It all comes from people who look only through their own prism. Not everyone has to join, but there're still people who prefer such type of servers over jumping from one highrate to another.

You're on the forum with community full of server jumpers located on few servers, they're jumping from one to another, comes back to the one and another, and this story is repeated again and again so if anybody is looking here through own prism, that's you, or you're just blind xD

Of course people gonna play your server, question is how long and how long people gonna survive x1 rates, increased cost of traveling and many others "harder" features than OTS have these days. You can say 100 online is enough for you, question is if 100 online is enough for people, imho nope, it's not about what you want and how do you see things but about community, what they want and how do they see things - the most funny thing is community have no idea what they want besides new race of rats, dramas, dominandos. It's easy to notice if server starts with 1k online (- MC's it may be 300-400 mmkay, mkay) and within 2-3 weeks this online may drop to 100-50 online. If you think 100 online of people on your server is special (you don't even know them xD) and they gonna play for xx months all I can tell you, you're so naive.
If server starts with 100-250 online at start, it's dead in eyes of community just at the beginning. Numbers is the most important thing, all I can see now is your server "advertised" on polish forum, dead br forum with 0 interests and here. Not even gonna mention people started make fun of you about magic word "soon"

And don't get me wrong, I want you to success but it's time to face reality about OTS community and stop living in a bubble. Logically I really doubt you will be satisfied having 100 online if you spent over 1 year (prolly or even more) to finish needle, my prediction is you gonna start this hard low rate server, realize that people won't play it for a long time, start server with new rates etc - not high rate.

You can have the best files, 100 % working features and sometimes fuck up things on simple things (or the most hard) like rates, economy etc
People don't give a fuck too much these days if warlock works 100 % or not if they spent xxx hours with buged warlocks, they care about numbers, their streamers with "emotional problems" if they play there nor not cuz it provides numbers at start, throwing sds, into faces of their victims, making fun of them, win some wars, quit and repeat.

I bet 2nd or 3rd edition with a little bit higher rates will be more succesfull than this. It's just my 2 cents.
You can say you gonna keep server alive but it's not you who decide if server gonna stay or not, with low numbers there's no point to keep it online, community is the only one who decides here.


Nostalgia is a powerful word which people forget after 2 or 3 deaths with dropped bps full of runes prepared for hunt.