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[UK][7.4] Tibiantis Online

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harryboii

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it wasnt ban by gm but community manager processing reports so no ingame contact with player or even mail converastion
yesyes community managers in 7.4 very good, 175 IQ comment. im sure you were what, 3 months in your moms womb at that time? genius bro geniussssssssssssssss
 

Adposatnr

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yesyes community managers in 7.4 very good, 175 IQ comment. im sure you were what, 3 months in your moms womb at that time? genius bro geniussssssssssssssss
you post topics from 2010 and 2011 that was 8.6-8.7 tibia
1635713652655.png
if i good remember before that u had to use ctrl+r to report & contact with gm (and if u logout or close chat ur report is gone) and only senior tutors could report directly to "cm"
 
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kay

kay

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GMs had no real power? I guess all those people getting banned just got banned by themselves and cipsofts battleye protection right?
I got no idea who the guy arguing about pvp is but it seems like you like to assume and group up everyone that disagrees with you into a category. Makes sense as to why you seem so arrogant. I am sure you know everything about tibia and everyone else is an idiot. Typical narcissistic behavior.
I suggest to re-read the whole conversation to find out who's the arrogant one, especially the parts in which you call other people "mentally challenged" and "full of shit".
Anyway, gms obviously could ban players but had no power to investigate such cases deeply, I thought I made it clear. Gamemasters were not even the staff, but other players. All they could do was basically teleporting to players and talking to them. So unless you were stupid and admitted to have shared/traded account between the words, there was no way you'd get banned. It was also cip policy to which gms were also powerless. E.g. when a botter had an auto pause on gm, they could do literally nothing. They had no invisibility, no access to any logs, probably not even players' IPs, and if the bot paused they had to assume that player might have been disconnected or afk and do nothing. That was cip policy.
Given these circumstances, plus the fact there were so few gms for so many game worlds and players, it's an absurd to think they would be able to enforce such troublesome rule as account trading/sharing.
Sure they gave some banishments, even to high level players, but it was way less than a permil of all cases. In fact sharing/trading was as popular as today. Alot of characters in the absolute top made it thanks to sharing, which was eventually the reason of introducing stamina. Alot of them were traded, alot of accounts were sold on auction sites daily or exchanged/shared by friends/relatives. People had access to their friends accounts and no one cared about it. Even if you don't remember how it was, you should atleast be able to draw a conclusion that a bunch of volunteers wouldn't ever be capable of enforcing such rule properly in that huge community.
I won't bother replying again cause you don't make any sense and are here just for a pointless flamewar, intended or not.
 
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Rollern

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all of these posts 2010 after reworked report system (i think it was 8.6? or 8.7) since then it was really easy to get somebody banned for few days based on chat logs e.g somebody write random swearword on public chat (or private chat!) and u could report him and get him banned for 2 days even if its out of context and these bans could stack until deletion xD
I got deleted by exactly that (writing F-ing bitch in PM with final warning on acc) haha
 

RegPossessed

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I suggest to re-read the whole conversation to find out who's the arrogant one, especially the parts in which you call other people "mentally challenged" and "full of shit".
Anyway, gms obviously could ban players but had no power to investigate such cases deeply, I thought I made it clear. Gamemasters were not even the staff, but other players. All they could do was basically teleporting to players and talking to them. So unless you were stupid and admitted to have shared/traded account between the words, there was no way you'd get banned. It was also cip policy to which gms were also powerless. E.g. when a botter had an auto pause on gm, they could do literally nothing. They had no invisibility, no access to any logs, probably not even players' IPs, and if the bot paused they had to assume that player might have been disconnected or afk and do nothing. That was cip policy.
Given these circumstances, plus the fact there were so few gms for so many game worlds and players, it's an absurd to think they would be able to enforce such troublesome rule as account trading/sharing.
Sure they gave some banishments, even to high level players, but it was way less than a permil of all cases. In fact sharing/trading was as popular as today. Alot of characters in the absolute top made it thanks to sharing, which was eventually the reason of introducing stamina. Alot of them were traded, alot of accounts were sold on auction sites daily or exchanged/shared by friends/relatives. People had access to their friends accounts and no one cared about it. Even if you don't remember how it was, you should atleast be able to draw a conclusion that a bunch of volunteers wouldn't ever be capable of enforcing such rule properly in that huge community.
I won't bother replying again cause you don't make any sense and are here just for a pointless flamewar, intended or not.
There you go a video of a GM banning 120 rp cause of trading in 2005. The GM ofc is doing tests to him to INVESTIGATE asking about rl name and bday date because he clearly had access to original owners information.
 

harryboii

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Its ok, these guys wouldn't accept anything even if you had a gm here telling them how it was. My bet is nobody of them was even more than 2-3 years old in 2003~ yet they are all experts and know what happened back on every single game world back then. Its no point arguing with people like this, they've been surrounded with people agreeing with them their entire lives so they don't know what its like to be wrong.
Don't waste your time finding evidence, none is enough for them.
 
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kay

kay

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There you go a video of a GM banning 120 rp cause of trading in 2005. The GM ofc is doing tests to him to INVESTIGATE asking about rl name and bday date because he clearly had access to original owners information.
I have seen this recording, it does not contradict anything of what I wrote, but rather proves it.
First of all, Manina unlike other gamemasters was a cipsoft member (maybe still is), so obviously she had a bit more power than a 'normal' GM. Despite the above, all she did here was to teleport to a guy and talk to him. Which is exactly what I said they could do. That guy was stupid enough not to answer those questions and got banned. Which is also exactly what I mentioned as the only way to get banned. It happened, yes. But this recording shows an extremely rare case. Do you honestly believe they would be able to enforce such troublesome rule properly on a larger scale with such methods? And only several employees able to apply them to thousands of accounts being shared/traded daily? I mean, how many times did a GM teleport to you to ask such question? Or your friends? Or friends of their friends, or their friends? How many times did you even hear of such thing back then? If you're implying that the rule was enforced, it must have been a very common thing, GMs teleporting to players and asking them their age.
The subject of this dispute was not whether anyone ever got banned for account trading/sharing, no one has questioned that. It was about whether the rules was enforced on a larger scale, not in some tenth part of permil of all cases at best (as per "cherry picking").
Not to mention, should that guy only answered the questions, he wouldn't have been banned. You find it a proper investigation? I'll tell you that if we (Tibiantis administration) used the methods of Tibia gamemasters, we wouldn't have banned 10% of the cheaters we did. Even having way more sophisticated methods and only one game world with 300 players in the peak, you don't imagine how much time and effort it takes.
 
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B

BoomRyu

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I am going to use your logic @harryboii with text
There is one vid of banned player of acc sharing
GM's banned a lot of ppl for sharing accs and were actively hunting them!
Few hours ago you bashed Marcus on retrocores thread that he's allowing people to use bots and he is not reacting
And now i am going to use your logic
There is one vod from twitch where he's making detective stream
Marcus banned a lot of ppl for using bots and was actively hunting them!
I am sure you are example of COPIUM overdose
If not, you can eat a snickers cause you think you are president but you are only drama queen
 

Michael 4463

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If an account has a history of logging in from a specific location for 8 months and then suddenly it switches to a completely different country and is never logged in there again, I would say the case is pretty clear no?
That case wouldn't be clear at all.
  • People move all the time, personally I moved countries two years ago;
  • VPN's & Proxies exist that can and do make people appear as if they are in other countries, personally I used them frequently (but not always) while living in Australia and still use them to a lesser extent here in Chile.

From what you're saying, it sounds to me like you would delete me for sharing/trading accounts - you'd be wrong.

Same goes for registration, there should never be a need for anyone to change the name or birth date on their registration like people did when selling accounts. That is another clear cut case.
I don't see this as a clear cut case either.
  • Many people do not register online games with their real name, date of birth or address for privacy reasons;
  • For various reasons like payment processing or getting a new recovery key mailed out if lost, people may be forced to update to accurate personal information;
  • After some time, a user may just decide to update their details for any reason at all.

Personally I didn't use my real details on my first tibia account in ~2003. That account doesn't exist anymore for unrelated reasons, but I am confident I updated it to my real details at some point for some reason.


All that said, there is other data that can be used to identify shared & traded accounts however sufficiently careful users will likely always be able to get away with it (unless you enforce the rule based on suspicion rather than facts - but then you're going to punish innocent people too)
 
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kay

kay

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That case wouldn't be clear at all.
  • People move all the time, personally I moved countries two years ago;
  • VPN's & Proxies exist that can and do make people appear as if they are in other countries, personally I used them frequently (but not always) while living in Australia and still use them to a lesser extent here in Chile.

It is possible to recognize the usage of vpn/proxy in most cases, but it won't change the fact you will have no information about the real location (only that it is spoofed). And on top of what you mentioned, I'd add that even with a direct connection when you determine the real location you are usually limited to a country only. That is the case for country-wide and world-wide providers as they usually assign addresses dynamically. To give an example, when I check my own location by my IP all services show random Polish cities and never the actual one (and the IP changes once a day). Then we can continue with account sharing behind the same router (quite common back in the days, e.g. Eternal Oblivion) to which you will be powerless here. Also people using various connections (e.g. home internet but sometimes mobile internet), people moving between cities, even countries, changing providers. On the other hand, local providers often have networks in which the whole residential area may share one IP. I mean all of the above is very common, I come across these things everyday when I x-ray players. No extreme scenarios involved.

If anyone thinks he can determine account trades on a larger scale with high efficiency and low margin of mistakes just by IP, he's utterly clueless. Not even in law IP connects to a person that easily, it's merely an outside address of your last router. The right authorities will be able to track the specific router (ofc assuming it's not spoofed), which an OT is not, but even they may be unable to connect certain activity to a real person. So when someone tells you IP can identify a person easily, you already know he's an ignoramus.

Identity verifications applied by services 'slightly bigger' than an OT involve sending scans of ID card, connecting bank accounts and other invasive methods, but then there's a smart otland guy who comes up with a bulletproof solution: CHECK THE IP xD And even if you were to verify players these ways, ask for their ID scans etc. (I don't have to say how troublesome and unrealistic it is for an OT), it still wouldn't stop account sharing.

The conclusion is that you can forbid account sharing for the sake of principle but you won't be able to enforce it properly, just as cip did but wasn't able (one recording doesn't change this fact). I understand why someone may still want to forbid it and atleast ban those several accounts he can. But thinking one can enforce it with a substantial efficiency and realistic cost for an OT is simply delusional.

Anyway, the above wasn't even the subject. The discussion originally was narrowed to cipsoft and old Tibia: whether they were able to ban the most of account traders/sharers, as that harry guy claimed xD
For anyone who played back then and has two braincells the answer is obvious.

As I said he thinks he's a smartass here but he clearly has no clue about old Tibia, lacks technical knowledge (the very basics of the topic), and most importantly any common sense. + he insults people rather than refer to what they say.
There is no point in continuing this dispute other than that the thread is constantly refreshed. So let's continue talking 🤓
 
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xKrazyx

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It is possible to recognize the usage of vpn/proxy in most cases, but it won't change the fact you will have no information about the real location (only that it is spoofed). And on top of what you mentioned, I'd add that even with a direct connection when you determine the real location you are usually limited to a country only. That is the case for country-wide and world-wide providers as they usually assign addresses dynamically. To give an example, when I check my own location by my IP all services show random Polish cities and never the actual one (and the IP changes once a day). Then we can continue with account sharing behind the same router (quite common back in the days, e.g. Eternal Oblivion) to which you will be powerless here. Also people using various connections (e.g. home internet but sometimes mobile internet), people moving between cities, even countries, changing providers. On the other hand, local providers often have networks in which the whole residential area may share one IP. I mean all of the above is very common, I come across these things everyday when I x-ray players. No extreme scenarios involved.

If anyone thinks he can determine account trades on a larger scale with high efficiency and low margin of mistakes just by IP, he's utterly clueless. Not even in law IP connects to a person that easily, it's merely an outside address of your last router. The right authorities will be able to track the specific router (ofc assuming it's not spoofed), which an OT is not, but even they may be unable to connect certain activity to a real person. So when someone tells you IP can identify a person easily, you already know he's an ignoramus.

Identity verifications applied by services 'slightly bigger' than an OT involve sending scans of ID card, connecting bank accounts and other invasive methods, but then there's a smart otland guy who comes up with a bulletproof solution: CHECK THE IP xD And even if you were to verify players these ways, ask for their ID scans etc. (I don't have to say how troublesome and unrealistic it is for an OT), it still wouldn't stop account sharing.

The conclusion is that you can forbid account sharing for the sake of principle but you won't be able to enforce it properly, just as cip did but wasn't able (one recording doesn't change this fact). I understand why someone may still want to forbid it and atleast ban those several accounts he can. But thinking one can enforce it with a substantial efficiency and realistic cost for an OT is simply delusional.

Anyway, the above wasn't even the subject. The discussion originally was narrowed to cipsoft and old Tibia: whether they were able to ban the most of account traders/sharers, as that harry guy claimed xD
For anyone who played back then and has two braincells the answer is obvious.

As I said he thinks he's a smartass here but he clearly has no clue about old Tibia, lacks technical knowledge (the very basics of the topic), and most importantly any common sense. + he insults people rather than refer to what they say.
There is no point in continuing this dispute other than that the thread is constantly refreshed. So let's continue talking 🤓
Completely agree

What I find funny, in my opinion, is that your response and logic could be applied in the case of otservlist, bots/spoofs and xinn's rules xD I'm more interested in that debate... staff here apparently not xD but I digress and commend your choice on this stance
 
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kay

kay

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Completely agree

What I find funny, in my opinion, is that your response and logic could be applied in the case of otservlist, bots/spoofs and xinn's rules xD I'm more interested in that debate... staff here apparently not xD but I digress and commend your choice on this stance
Well that 4 IPs rule doesn't make much sense there, but it's not the biggest issue of that site. Anyway, it's not worth being discussed here. Tibiantis never used otservlist (and never will) and shows that you don't have to rely on it really.
 

SnorkY

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Completely agree

What I find funny, in my opinion, is that your response and logic could be applied in the case of otservlist, bots/spoofs and xinn's rules xD I'm more interested in that debate... staff here apparently not xD but I digress and commend your choice on this stance

why would the owners of this server want to "debade" the state of a service (otserver) they are not using with a person they don't know? jeez
 

xKrazyx

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why would the owners of this server want to "debade" the state of a service (otserver) they are not using with a person they don't know? jeez
otland staff** not server staff my bad
I dont think ive ever disagreed with anything Kay's posted now that I think about it. Very good hoster from what I've seen.
" So when someone tells you IP can identify a person easily, you already know he's an ignoramus." is a line I found true and entertaining ...when someone crafts an articulate post about why a person who thinks its a good idea to tie an identity to an IP is utterly clueless, just reminded me of otservlist, had to get one in xD, but like I said I digress, not the thread for that topic, just agreed very much with the logic and transparency
 
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Dip Set

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Tibiantis never used otservlist (and never will) and shows that you don't have to rely on it really.
Damn strong words, I mean you’re telling the truth though, tibiantis is killing it.
 
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kay

kay

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The editing, music choice and that bandicam watermark makes it feel oldschool-ish to me. Should be recommended to watch in 480p for the authenticity 😂

otland staff** not server staff my bad
I dont think ive ever disagreed with anything Kay's posted now that I think about it. Very good hoster from what I've seen.
" So when someone tells you IP can identify a person easily, you already know he's an ignoramus." is a line I found true and entertaining ...when someone crafts an articulate post about why a person who thinks its a good idea to tie an identity to an IP is utterly clueless, just reminded me of otservlist, had to get one in xD, but like I said I digress, not the thread for that topic, just agreed very much with the logic and transparency
IP is obviously very important hint, but it is also obvious that two people can share one IP as well as one person can use multiple IPs in the same time. So it alone cannot be decisive as that guy implied.
People often seem to think they cannot play with their roommates or that they can mc if they use multiple machines with different adresses, but neither of that is true.
 
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