Real maps must die for the ot community to come back.

[Amusement]

Seriously can't figure out how you can think in such a straight line, the people playing Rlmap servers are not part of this community, half of them barely even come here, the only people that do are the creators (obviously afew of the players, but not many).
The people playing these servers are people who got banned/deleted or didn't like the direction CIP was taking & enjoyed Tibia for what it was, so play realmaps.

You've got to stop blaming realmaps when they're effecting fuck all, because there was fuck all to effect in the first place, the majority of us here that do enjoy custom OTs, creators or players are moving on, there are games being created that just go beyond what a 2d game can accomplish, this is why the community is slowly dying but yes, these people playing Rlmaps could come and join custom servers, or help in the creation, but they clearly don't want to, & you need to stop thinking you can change there mind, or even think you can control them in such a manner.

Right now i can barely think, because of the stupidity i've just been smacked with.

Ontop of this, the people who are creating custom OTs at the moment, are creating such shite it is shocking.
I've played alot of OTs in my time, and alot of the extremly good ones never really lasted long, were the bad ones seem to get alot of publicity & stay on for ages.
Perhaps it's just my taste in what a server should be, but this is also put into the equation of all OTs, you can't make one that is perfect for everyone, which divides what little players we have already up into even smaller groups.

 

[Core_]

What would also help, its not only not playing real servers but playing custom servers, support them! whenever there's a good custom server people don't join b'cause they think its empty so lets do something about it try out some of those nice custom servers
Example: Those "War Teams" should do their things on custom servers and that. If they don't i have an idea summer is coming so I'll make a thread for an Open Tibia Team, and maybe we could play some custom servers in the summer what you think about it?

 

[Limos]

Seriously can't figure out how you can think in such a straight line, the people playing Rlmap servers are not part of this community, half of them barely even come here, the only people that do are the creators (obviously afew of the players, but not many).
The people playing these servers are people who got banned/deleted or didn't like the direction CIP was taking & enjoyed Tibia for what it was, so play realmaps.

You've got to stop blaming realmaps when they're effecting fuck all, because there was fuck all to effect in the first place, the majority of us here that do enjoy custom OTs, creators or players are moving on, there are games being created that just go beyond what a 2d game can accomplish, this is why the community is slowly dying but yes, these people playing Rlmaps could come and join custom servers, or help in the creation, but they clearly don't want to, & you need to stop thinking you can change there mind, or even think you can control them in such a manner.

Right now i can barely think, because of the stupidity i've just been smacked with.

Ontop of this, the people who are creating custom OTs at the moment, are creating such shite it is shocking.
I've played alot of OTs in my time, and alot of the extremly good ones never really lasted long, were the bad ones seem to get alot of publicity & stay on for ages.
Perhaps it's just my taste in what a server should be, but this is also put into the equation of all OTs, you can't make one that is perfect for everyone, which divides what little players we have already up into even smaller groups.

I totaly agree.

 

[Summit]

The OT community is based entirely of people who didnt like where cip was going for starters, not just the people on real map severs. Plus the people who got banned/deleated were breaking cips rules there for i have no sympathy for them, its all in the rules and regs for them to read. Sidenote, you might have noticed i made mention of the community thats still here stop helping the rlmap creators because that's whats keeping alot of them runing. if they cant get a click and run server running then they will be forced to either move on to something else or start playing servers instead of making servers which would potentualy increase traffic to custom servers.

As for crappy servers getting more traffic than the top notch bad ass servers, that boils down to one very simple concept, gms giving them free run of the server. RPG servers that put metric ass tons of work into their server are also very protective of their server, which is why botters are banned on sight. There needs to be a couple "evolutions" style servers with a custom map ran where botting is ok, that would bring in some of the people on the rl maps that are botting. eventualy the rl map community would die out just as the custom map community did, this will either put the nail in the coffin for OT's due to the people from rl maps leaving ots OR it will revive it because of the sudden influx of people who need something to do.

As for server shelf life, i would never expect a server to last more than 3 months. anything after that is just gravy. Also all of those servers die out because the hosters take it down and or the gms run everyone off with their tyranical fists waving. I dont expect a "server to end all servers" I simply expect there to be a shift in what servers people play. MAKE A CRAPPY SERVER PEOPLE, MAKE A CRAPPY MAP WITH MINIMAL DETAIL AND LET BOTTING HAPPEN.

You might have noticed that im making alot of reference to terrible gms, botters getting banned, and exessively detailed servers... well this right here defines the Good custom servers. now connect the dots with what i just said and you'll fully understand why custom servers are failing as of late.


Sidenote: kudos ammusment for having the balls to be the black sheep (not many people would do it), you made good points but they can easily be explained/ fixed with just a bit of thought.

 

[Sentielo]

My point of view
Well I agree with the fact that there should be less cipsoft ots and more costum ot promotion. However I believe I have seen more of this kind of threads. Lot's of people here are talking on that way, but the people who makes us seeiing the problem aren't mostly the ones who didn't put any afford to bring back more custom OTs.

How to get more custom ots?
You can simply make a mappiece and give it to a team if they love it, you can create actions/moves/npcs/monsters to give the people who are making a custom OT to put away a task, etc. etc. That's what we need to see more to increase the amount of custom servers. I am trying to say that people shouldn't flame others while they aren't doing anything for the community. It's easy for everyone to flame others, but try to look at yourself first , before people accept what you are saying.

 

[Summit]

I'm currently working on a fountaion map to give out for free useage. It's going to be 1 city with a section of the world made, but not big enough to just host. This will force people to map on to it while still having a platform to work from. The hope is that some of these click n runs will take it and put a touch of effort into their work, this will hopfully ease them into makeing customs servers/ get them into the mind set that custom servers are a good thing which will hopfully increase the flow to already running server/ soon to be running servers.

 

[Summit]

OH OH OH!!! i dont know if this can be implemented but i just thought of a brilliant idea. a post # requirement for starting threads/ starting threads in certain sections of the forums. That would certainly limmit the amount of people that just make an account to leech help. IDK if they are willing to work with us on that but hey, its an idea.

 

[Sentielo]

That kind of input could help people . The only problem is to give that to everyone. People want their own shape and not that everybody have the same.

 

[Summit]

"those" people make custom servers, i like "those" people. the people im pandering this foundation map to download click n run rl maps, they could care less about originality. which is why i'm trying to give them an outlet to work from.

 

[Scarlet Ayleid]

enforcing a minimum post count to something is bad because it'll just mean those people will spam other sections of the forum to get the required posts

 

[Red]

To eradicate real map servers you'd have to get OtLand Administrators, OtFans Administrators, Xinn, and other OT server list owners on board with it. With the death of most real map servers, the big ones would only get massive.
I could say much, much more. But these servers are a problem because of the players. If players played Open Tibia for OPEN TIBIA and not just a "retro 8.6 server go fast warwarwar" then this wouldn't even be a problem.

Red

 

[Pandarohoo]

You want to remove all the real-maps entirely or just the major part of them?

 

[Summit]

enforcing a minimum post count to something is bad because it'll just mean those people will spam other sections of the forum to get the required posts

Perhaps, but it would also be grounds for banning the account. Though its probably more work than you guys wanna deal with.

To eradicate real map servers you'd have to get OtLand Administrators, OtFans Administrators, Xinn, and other OT server list owners on board with it. With the death of most real map servers, the big ones would only get massive.
I could say much, much more. But these servers are a problem because of the players. If players played Open Tibia for OPEN TIBIA and not just a "retro 8.6 server go fast warwarwar" then this wouldn't even be a problem.

Red

Well, OTfans is a ghost town. they all moved here or left. Also, im talking about doing this on a community level not a biblical genocide. Servers can only get so big, eventualy they would be so over crowded that no one could hunt but the highest level people who PA them out of areas. a server with 500 people where only 50 could hunt means theres 450 very bored people who will look for something else to do. It's a bit of a domino effect, and it ofcourse would take time to really show anything but it would over time work. We just have to start, now is as good of time as any. and again, we can pander to their style. people need to make pg for war servers, even if they are hosted off the persons computer.

Right now the only option these people have as far as pg/bot war servers are the rl maps. this is because people want to do these grand scale projects, we need to GIVE THEM AN OPTION between rl or custom map severs that fall under the SAME CATAGORY. get where im going here?

back in the day no one bought server hosting, they all hosted them off their computers. granted you would get the wooden computer running on dial up somewhat often but there were options of which server to play. people only started useing hosting services when they had a huge project. ironicly this was a time when people actualy made servers and put them out in a couple weeks (they also pandered to the players, not the makers), now it takes months for a project to get put up. The difference is back then the server was quick dirty and ready to roll, now its like writing a damn novle to get a server rolling.


I know im promoting making garbage, but thats apperently exactly what these people want. we can either die as an old beaten horse ready for the glue factory, or we can do something about this mess and get our numbers back up and then deal with making quality servers again.

 

[J.Dre]

You can't justify destroying hundreds of servers on the off-chance it will help OpenTibia - that's absurd. Sure, I can agree that the very existence of these servers has not directly helped OpenTibia (in general), but throwing all those interested in them under the bus won't solve a damn thing. It's not what is being hosted, it's how they're being hosted and for what reason(s). And new members must learn and take initiative to become somewhat of an innovator. Lack of interest to do so is only making things worse. Leeching has gone way too far.

One thing that I believe should be addressed before "throwing out real map servers" should even be considered, is the sole reason people decide to run a server these days - donations. A long time ago, we helped, created and expanded OpenTibia Servers for things such as a GM account. Today, kids are downloading other peoples leeched works and putting them online to make money - that's their main priority. Understandably, OTS hosting is NOT cheap - we get it! But by making this your main priority, you're contributing to the death of OpenTibia by setting a bad example, and enabling others to take part in this scam. Kids are only making OT servers for quick cash; once it's online, they're done. No more updates, no more involvement, as long as their PayPal account is constantly replenished. And when it comes to a point in the servers life (usually less than a month) where no one is online, they do a reset or shutdown completely and move on. It just so happens "real map servers" are the easiest to do so with. Why? People are familiar with the Tibia map!

Hopefully you get where I'm going with this. There isn't anything we can physically do to stop 'donations' but we can avoid supporting those who want to advertise their servers here, on Otservlist or other sites with only this in mind. I'm not going to spend hours discussing this, again. Tibia map servers are not the main problem, that's the last thing I'd worry about. I don't mind people taking donations and offering services to raise money for hosting, but making it the sole reason of even taking part in hosting is a horrible mistake and I hate all of those involved for that sole purpose.

 

[zaneria hoster]

nope, real maps wont never die. They give so many cash :w00t:

 

[Summit]

I cant do a damn thing about donations, your right. but i can do w/e is within my power to draw people away from the leeches. and this is most certrainly within our power.

why would you not throw these servers under the bus? if you have an infection you take drugs to kill that infection because you dont want it. rl maps are as close to an infection as the ot community can get. Theres only ever been 1 "good" rl map in my opinion, and thats realots, the reason they worked so well is because they understood the kind of people that were going to play their server and they let them have it their way.

BTW you might have noticed your last line "we can stop supporting them" has been said about 5 times already, mostly of which were by me. also, the reason they CAN click n run a server and start hording donation money is because they were supported by us. it's not a coincidence that rl maps are the servers that people are abusing for donations, its because they are simple to get up and running. we alowed them to make it simple, now we're eating from the same bowl we shat in. We have to do something to end rl maps otherwise the ot community is compleatly finished... since im not the owner of this forum or otservlist i cant just drop the ban hammer on them like i wish i could. I can however start a thread and get a mass of people on the same page so we can hopfully do SOMETHING to end this vicious cycle of us giving and them taking. The only thing i can think of is to bring them back into the community and get them putting effort into their servers, even if its only a little bit.

Why? well first off it will end the take everything give nothing mentality because if their hosting a custom server that they put a bit of effort into then thats a step above what was going on before. eventualy that will lead to them ACTUALLY LEARNING how to make servers insteady of just this proxy nonsence. once they learn how to make a server they will start teaching other people new to the concept of doing work how to make their servers. thus they will be giving instead of taking. second, we will get a replenishment of the ranks amongst the community to fill the void of those who left previously. and third, they will be making custom servers which will make them want to best the server before them meaning we will get that old school rivalry going again which then promotes raising their quality of work. eventrualy this will all lead to a second wind for ots.

Sidenote, if you put a donation system on a server that you actualy had to make then thats totaly cool because your getting something for something which balances the scales and keeps the equilibrium. if your getting donations on a click n run server then your getting something for nothing, which doesnt help the rest of us. donations are NOT the problem, its the effort put into the server. if they are making money off a product they made, AWSOME. if they are making money off a product someone else made and they stole, not cool.

Ill recap so we have all the ideas on the same post, because apperntly theres too many walls of text.

we need to stop helping anyone who's making a thread about rl maps, this is only adding to the problem.
we need to get some easy to run, yet not click and run, peices released.
we need to try and draw some of them from the real map servers by setting up servers that pander to their ideals (which is pg like a mofo then start wars).
we need to try and get it in their heads that real maps are just crap, its not gonna be easy untill we get the other jobs accomplished.
we need to up our activity on the forums so that people will stick around, dead threads suck..

and for the love of god, understand this.
I OBVIOUSLY DONT HAVE THE POWER TO GENOCIDE THESE SERVERS AND I OBVIOUSLY CANT GET ANYONE WITH THE POWER TO GENOCIDE THE SERVERS TO BACK ME. THERE FOR I AM SPEAKING ABOUT THIS FROM A COMMUNITY LEVEL NOT A "GO TO WAR KILL EM ALL FEAR GODS WRATH" LEVEL.

clear enough?

 

[Elite Marksman]

I agree, actually!

 

[Red]

@Summit: Obviously you're trying to accomplish something that many of us here have been too weak-hearted to step up and do by ourselves for a long time now.

 

[Deleted member 92788]

C'est pas possible, humans are greedy. It's in our nature to want money.
Good luck but I don't think it's possible.

 

[Cypher]

Remove the real maps will not be possible sadly, but we can start promoting the custom servers... All we need is more people to contribute custom & new scripts, maps, maybe some sprites, etc.

And as I stated some time ago, I'll be one of those contributors.

My first custom server has been released already, I'm just waiting for a moderator approval.