Nah. It's because most people, excluding naive technohipsters too young to remember dot-com bubble, like some kind of guarantee and the current economy model, which all of its flaws, guarantees some kind of value.
Bitcoin users?
- Thread starter Amiroslo
- Start date
owned
Excellent OT User
As someone who is heavily invested in crypto, I suggest you all do some more research on the alternative cryptos and learn what blockchains are and what they can solve. To any of you that don't understand yet, they 100% are the future. And just like the dot com bubble there will be cryptos that make it through a hard crash. The technology is revolutionary and it's here to stay regardless of if bitcoin sticks around. If bitcoin fails there'll be another that takes it's place such as something like raiblocks that could solve a huge economic issue in countries like Venezuela.
Fuck off, you are not capable of argumenting without appealing to "you are dumb", "you don't know anything", "I don't understand thus it is wrong" and, at last, "government will do something".
whitevo
Feeling good, thats what I do.
To me, it feels @Arashel doesn't get the fact that all those revolutionary failures we have lived through have increased the quality of humans.
But he is right about government in a sense that may stop the innovation if it will harm their political control over how the city operates or state or whatnot they have power over.
There are exceptions in all, I do believe some countries or cities will allow such innovation happen.
Hopefully, they will not remain for tourist spots and presentations. Time will tell.
If you doubt the difficulty of legislation. Let's play a game, go to your bank and tell them:
I got a mobile app, the user can buy any cryptocurrency bank decides and when a user presses the button on the mobile screen, "money" transfer is made.
How we put it to use?
What you think they will say?
I think in Estonia they don't even know where to start from, at best, they will say its shops deal.
Shops at best they say its banks business.
You eventually go back and forth until they say, need to talk with the city council to even think about implementing this.
From there it gets to the state level (well in Estonia it is not a state, but idk the other word for it), then finally at the country level.
But as much I have felt waiting for implementation agreements, I can tell it takes a lot of months between each answer, eventually they become years.
Good thing is that some places already have gone through these and use this technology.
Its quite simple for private firms and companies.
But well that is just the financial stuff.
There is also an option for decentralized -voting, -open source code, -data validation, etc.
But he is right about government in a sense that may stop the innovation if it will harm their political control over how the city operates or state or whatnot they have power over.
There are exceptions in all, I do believe some countries or cities will allow such innovation happen.
Hopefully, they will not remain for tourist spots and presentations. Time will tell.
If you doubt the difficulty of legislation. Let's play a game, go to your bank and tell them:
I got a mobile app, the user can buy any cryptocurrency bank decides and when a user presses the button on the mobile screen, "money" transfer is made.
How we put it to use?
What you think they will say?
I think in Estonia they don't even know where to start from, at best, they will say its shops deal.
Shops at best they say its banks business.
You eventually go back and forth until they say, need to talk with the city council to even think about implementing this.
From there it gets to the state level (well in Estonia it is not a state, but idk the other word for it), then finally at the country level.
But as much I have felt waiting for implementation agreements, I can tell it takes a lot of months between each answer, eventually they become years.
Good thing is that some places already have gone through these and use this technology.
Its quite simple for private firms and companies.
But well that is just the financial stuff.
There is also an option for decentralized -voting, -open source code, -data validation, etc.
Flatlander
Species Developer
Technically you could buy bread with Pokemon Cards where the user interface is created.
Doesn't mean it would be a good currency to use.
I love the idea of Bitcoin and Crypto-Currency. But it really is a "If we believe it's worth something, then it's worth something!"
It is literally a currency that is based on Faith. The more Faith people have in it, the more it is worth. It's like those Anime where people believing in you gives you powers.
cryptocurrency is the future
owned
Excellent OT User
The fourth largest bank in the world is making it's own cryptocurrency and opening a cryptocurrency Exchange. Visa is hiring blockchain engineers. Russia, is making it's own cryptocurrency. You people really think crypto is going anywhere? You're delusional.
"The South Korean Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) does not have the authority to close cryptocurrency exchanges. “It is impossible in reality,” said the KFTC chairman. "
Only .18% of the population is invested in crypto and it's already seeing many big names using it. Only a matter of time.
"The South Korean Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) does not have the authority to close cryptocurrency exchanges. “It is impossible in reality,” said the KFTC chairman. "
Only .18% of the population is invested in crypto and it's already seeing many big names using it. Only a matter of time.
Dude. As someone who invested in that bubble, you're not suited to speak about it. You're biased, because your priority is constant increase of crypto value no matter of the costs of everything around.
Again: Nah. They are not the future.
Jesus Christ... You're 17 or something? Venezuela's problems have nothing to do with currency. Their economy crushed under heavy heavy regulations, nationalization of foreign entities properties which drive foreign investments away and because of social welfare that made a lot of people lazy.
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What do you expect me to say? You knows shit about banking and monetary policies. Some other guy have no idea what caused failure in Venezuela.
Most of you are baised young people, who like IT-related stuff, and you're naive to think that IT will solve all the problems across the world just by writing some piece of code and compiling it...
Don't expect me to respect You or respect your naive love for lord savior Jesus IT Christ.
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Nah. That's just propaganda of left-leaning idiots who are not eduacted enough to remember that a lot of revolutions like reformation, french or or bolshevik one, killed a lot of people and bring misery on the rest.
Quality of human life was slowly increasing via very slow process of technological evolution, in which inventors took already established physical rules and improve on them.
I'm pretty much sure that there isn't any major discovery done by just brainless rejection of already established knowledge.
The same way it is done with actual currency... Bank has it's own account. Legal representative and You sign proper loaning deal. After that money is transferred. Both sides are obliged to keep their words, because other side can sue them and win shitload of money.
This is what banking is about.
Bitcoins and other currencies are having those accounts - called "wallets" asfar as I know. This is the account. Everything else is the same.
How the hell you're not capable of warping your head around it...?
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Nope. They're just seeing bunch of stupid IT people who are throwing real money into useless pieces of code, so they're quickly rushing into this market before it crashes
Current idiotic trend for cryptocurrencies is the best thing that could happen for big banks. They can emit/generate it without any banking regulations or limits and it doesn't have to be backed by any physical resource. It's Wall Street paradise
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CRYPTO is the MOTHA FOOOKING FUTURE
Flatlander
Species Developer
Listen, there are a few things something has to have, to be a good currency.
Well I will tell you:
Why must currency be Rare?
If it is too easy to "find" or "create" an object, it cannot be a currency.
Each Crypto Currency on it's own is rare, but just about anyone can create a new Crypto.
This is why the market right now is just flooded with all types of Crypto.
Why must currency be easy to trade and transport?
If it is too hard to trade or transport a currency, people are less-likely to use it.
Now it is easy to trade and transport Crypto (as long as you have a computer and usually an internet connection)
Why must currency have value on it's own?
And we come to Requirement #3 for an item to be a good Currency.
The place where Crypto falls short.
It needs to be worth something on it's own. People have to be able to utilize it as a resource.
This is the reason why money was backed-up by gold in the past. Because you could go trade $1 of money for gold.
The problem was, $1.00 bills in America should have written "Worth 1 ounce of gold" or whatever on it.
The fact that any Crypto-Coin can go from being $1 to $10,000, to $20,000 and back down to $1 is the reason it is worthless as a currency.
The reason Gold cannot do that, is because it is actually used in the market.
There is a market of Supply and Demand for gold that keeps the price steady.
And unless an Asteroid made out of gold literally crashes into the earth and increases the supply by a ton, Gold prices are going to remain steady.
Crypto, and even the money Countries use that you say are "bad" do not have this benefit.
Crypto has the exact same problem that our current Money has. It has no actual value, therefor in a crysis, or over time, it isn't worth anything.
If tomorrow the United States Collapsed, Dollars would be worthless.
But that is not very likely.
But how likely is it that Bitcoins will be worth much more, or much less tomorrow? Very high!
It is Volitile,
Imagine buying a car today with 100 bitcoins, then tomorrow realising "Oh, if I waited one day instead of a Toyota Corolla I could have bought a Lamborghini Diablo".
That is why Crypto will never be mainstream. And stating that a bunch of governments or businesses are toying with the idea doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Plenty of governments toyed with the idea of Socialism, Communism, Monarchy, and Genocide. I wouldn't sit here going "Hey, they are killing off entire Races in Africa, so we should do it here."
- It must be rare
- It must be easy to trade and transport
- It must have value on it's own as a resource.
Well I will tell you:
Why must currency be Rare?
If it is too easy to "find" or "create" an object, it cannot be a currency.
Each Crypto Currency on it's own is rare, but just about anyone can create a new Crypto.
This is why the market right now is just flooded with all types of Crypto.
Why must currency be easy to trade and transport?
If it is too hard to trade or transport a currency, people are less-likely to use it.
Now it is easy to trade and transport Crypto (as long as you have a computer and usually an internet connection)
Why must currency have value on it's own?
And we come to Requirement #3 for an item to be a good Currency.
The place where Crypto falls short.
It needs to be worth something on it's own. People have to be able to utilize it as a resource.
This is the reason why money was backed-up by gold in the past. Because you could go trade $1 of money for gold.
The problem was, $1.00 bills in America should have written "Worth 1 ounce of gold" or whatever on it.
The fact that any Crypto-Coin can go from being $1 to $10,000, to $20,000 and back down to $1 is the reason it is worthless as a currency.
The reason Gold cannot do that, is because it is actually used in the market.
There is a market of Supply and Demand for gold that keeps the price steady.
And unless an Asteroid made out of gold literally crashes into the earth and increases the supply by a ton, Gold prices are going to remain steady.
Crypto, and even the money Countries use that you say are "bad" do not have this benefit.
Crypto has the exact same problem that our current Money has. It has no actual value, therefor in a crysis, or over time, it isn't worth anything.
If tomorrow the United States Collapsed, Dollars would be worthless.
But that is not very likely.
But how likely is it that Bitcoins will be worth much more, or much less tomorrow? Very high!
It is Volitile,
Imagine buying a car today with 100 bitcoins, then tomorrow realising "Oh, if I waited one day instead of a Toyota Corolla I could have bought a Lamborghini Diablo".
That is why Crypto will never be mainstream. And stating that a bunch of governments or businesses are toying with the idea doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Plenty of governments toyed with the idea of Socialism, Communism, Monarchy, and Genocide. I wouldn't sit here going "Hey, they are killing off entire Races in Africa, so we should do it here."
Flatlander
Species Developer
If you are speaking to me, then i'd love to hear what I said was false.
The "Stability of Value" is seen as a requirement for any currency.
Whether it is artificial stability created by a Supply-Demand generated by a central bank, or actual stability created by supply and demand of the market.
Just go search for "what makes a good currency" and 99% of everyone agrees that.
It isn't POSSIBLE for everyone to just not agree to use Gold or Copper, because electrical conductivity of metals is in high demand due to electronics.
A gold coin has a higher statistical chance to be worth more than a bitcoin at any given time.
But more importantly, the chance that a gold coin will be worth less tomorrow than today, is very low.
Which would you rather have, if you could only cash your money in 50 years.
1 million dollars spread out between your 5 favorite crypto currencies.
or 1 million dollars of gold.
Which is more likely to be worth something in 50 years?
You might say "Oh but with Bitcoin, it's possible that that 1 million will be worth 5 million!"
Sorry, that simply makes that gambling. Just owning money shouldn't be a high-risk gamble.
BahamutxD
Jack of all trades, master of none
Flatlander has some points there I would like to see someone argue against them. As much as I read this topics in the internet, cryto defenders always avoid that kind of arguments to come later on with the same repetitive things they keep saying all the time.
I really want to get convinced and imagine about a new future/digital currency but so far BT or similars doesn't feel like they will be worth a damn. All I see is people investing, some may win, some may lose but thats just market not a global currency. Go ask someone in Zambia how much is a BT worth to him.
I really want to get convinced and imagine about a new future/digital currency but so far BT or similars doesn't feel like they will be worth a damn. All I see is people investing, some may win, some may lose but thats just market not a global currency. Go ask someone in Zambia how much is a BT worth to him.
whitevo
Feeling good, thats what I do.
This useless statement I had, was towards @Arashel
As for your question.
Let's agree on few things so we know we understand each other.
On the previuos post, you talking about 2 things.
Investment value(speculation of how much it could be worth in future) and general value(how much majority of people would pay for the same amount right now)
Both these properties you compare with cryptocurrency.
I'm gonna bring in 3 arguments which I think gives most value to given object (and I'm gonna add cash money into this)
Gold:
Used in technology because of good electrical conductivity.
Limited resources (not yet discovered how to create artificial gold, without spending more resources(yes you can create gold, but that ain't cheap, anyway that's another topic))
The psychologial effect, which started long ago where having gold increased your social status.
Cash Money:
Value depends on how much the commodities compare with each other
Value depends on how much we are told it is worth
Used to make fast trades
Crypto Money:
Value depends on total amount of "external value" in circulation (usually cash money).
Idea
Used to make fast trades.
By a first glance, Crypto Money seems to be the most useless. It doesn't do anything new and its dependant on another concept which is also dependant on so many other things.
Gold is the most valued object, however, its main use cases are also completely different, compared to the Money objects.
A brief history of these values:
Gold or similar precious metals/gems were the first "technology/concept" which was used for trading anything (aka not just 1 bag of rice for 4 apples. Instead a 3+ way trade)
For quite a long time it remained the same until it started getting harder and harder to move mountains of metals.
The idea of a money increased, a lightweight version of value, but it required consensus.
So all the people who owned the most metals and commodities agreed on certain value and rest of the population who trusted the richest people were able to get into this cycle.
For trusting the people who created the value they were now able to use lightweight resources for trading
Time moves on, the entire world is connected money is what it is now a value which entire trust relies on the central bank. (for most of the people)
Comes along technological advancements. You can move information through air or through certain metals.
Banks now have a huge paper trail of values and depts and whatnot across the world.
Internet. We have now an option to once again trust the other party directly, hence the Digital Money. (aka crypto)
We couldn't have money before we had things we valued, we couldn't have crypto before we had centralized value and peer to peer connection.
Now we are here, what people decide where to move from here it's their choice.
I will now compare few arguments against each other.
Gold is limited right now and I think it will stay limited for very long time.
Cash Money is unlimited. Depts.
Crypto Money is limited. I know you now go hating on me, just trust me on this. It's limited, you can't go into negative crypto balance, this is not how it's built and it has cap value.
Granted some cryptocurrencies do increase the cap incrementally per time (however still kinda limited)
Gold is not very good to trade something fast nor its accepted nowadays for the common things because it's slow.
You can't also send gold trough air. (unless you are quite close to the place where you want to send the money)
Cash Money is fast, BUT it costs money. Sure you might not see the cost virtually on your bank account, however, it is taken from the taxes you pay to your government.
Nowadays your banks usually collect a certain amount of debt before they make the full transaction to some other bank where the money was sent to, because sending money is actually quite expensive because humans have to spend time on validating them in some sense. Greetings to all the hard working accountants.
Crypto Money is actually a lot faster than Cash Money, but because Banks can issue a loan, they can show money on another account before they validate the transaction.
Given those few of my reasonings I will now answer your questions:
I would invest in cryptocurrencies.
Gold may not be worth in the future, because of scientific advancements and finding alternatives to do all the same things what gold does but more cheaply.
Of course crypto has same issues, they constantly improve and new ones come out, leaving old ones to bite the dust.
So in both cases, I lose money.
I will get some money out of gold in 50 years and have no global impact by investing 1 million into it.
I will get no money out from selected cryptos but will have a global impact by investing 1 million into it.
I'm not much into it but I've seen Athene's stream once and it seems that he found a way to boost crypto currency price and it feels like a real bubble. He was saying something about manipulating value of currency, but he could be trolling as well. Like I said, I don't know much and thats just what I heard on his stream ; x I wont go further with some stupid thesis of mine since I'm not sure if its 100% true xD
whitevo
Feeling good, thats what I do.
haha, wow, I know what you saw, same here.
Watched his neural documentals and other weird stuff too.
Made me still think doe
I just LOVE the type of people who will came, say that someone is saying something false, and exit the room without explaining oneself...
If you can operate on values like 0,00X or 0,00000X or 0,00000000X of BTC, then pretty much this "currency" is also unlimited.
Gold is still, and because of physics it will probably stay, the most useful component of electronic devices.
And the rest of your post is just useless waffling of someone who tires to sound like expert in that particular field xD
whitevo
Feeling good, thats what I do.
...
I exit because ppl like you simply have 1 point of view.
Besides, don't worry about this, this post wasn't for you.
Dude... There is always one point of view... That's the fuc*ing definition of POV and mathematical definition which is the single element of some particular set located in particular space. English is not my native language, but at least I'm capable to understand the meaning of words. You're now sounding like crazy person.
