Suggestion About art sections being moved to multimedia

[Shadowsong]

Hey guys, what's with the small art section being moved to Multimedia? Now even less people are going to see spriters and their work which is already scarce around here. It may be my biased opinion, being a part of that group as well, but am I wrong in saying we should pronounce the existence of such activities rather than shove it a layer deeper away?

If mapping showoff can have its own board which is featured on the front page, why not sprites?
It's true that custom maps are what's needed for a custom server, but so are sprites in my opinion and if anything, I've noticed that recently more and more people are enticed by servers that use custom sprites on top of other features.

The Small Art board is a board for all other kinds of small art (including signatures and whatnot) which may not be relevant to open tibia, but as far as game sprites are concerned, I think they're a big step towards OT customization and deserve their own spotlight.

Nobody except few people have been posting anything (especially recently) but sprites in the Small Art section anyway.

My suggestion is to move the Small Art section back to the frontpage, whether it be under the OpenTibia category or Community Chatboards, and perhaps rename it to "Sprites", and rename the "Large Art" board to just Art and have people post any art that is not sprites there.

I'll just make a poll and let's see if there's enough people in the community that agree with this in the first place.

 

[ralke]

i think ot-sprites should be asociated to a section of animation. i could try to make some tutorials of how to use photoshop time-line and stuff like that ^^ there's too many stuff on art to leave behind, like proportions, anatomy, landscapes, etc. and thoose could be a good points to start changing tibia graphics

 

[Shadowsong]

You are right. I couldn't find a single thread under "Small Art" that would include a download link for any sprites that the author wanted to share. If the material posted can't be useful for anyone else, there's no place for it under "Resources". Showoff fits right where it is - under Multimedia. Everyone who makes data packs, Lua scripts, and so on and only wishes to share screenshots or video demonstrations also must post under Multimedia and there's been no issue with that.

Then why is Mapping Showoff still under OpenTibia on the front page? In that board (much like Small Art), people show off their art with no intention of sharing it.
Either move Mapping Showoff to Multimedia to be consistent with your statements, or make a Sprites Showoff board in OpenTibia so we can post there (as the large majority, 88%, of the voters on the poll has voted).

 

[Don Daniello]

Mapping Showoff is still there because it was always under Open Tibia (Small Art was not). And it's also at least 5 times more popular (by post count). It is also a little bit more relevant to the game (the game uses a map, whether you can download it or not) than random sprites (graphics which never was in the game). Therefore, mapping is related to Open Tibia and your own art work is not so much. If you were sharing it or using it on an OTS, that would fall under OT category somewhere.

 

[RazorBlade]

If you were sharing it or using it on an OTS, that would fall under OT category somewhere.

where is somewhere c:

 

[Fargo]

Mapping Showoff is still there because it was always under Open Tibia (Small Art was not). And it's also at least 5 times more popular (by post count). It is also a little bit more relevant to the game (the game uses a map, whether you can download it or not) than random sprites (graphics which never was in the game). Therefore, mapping is related to Open Tibia and your own art work is not so much. If you were sharing it or using it on an OTS, that would fall under OT category somewhere.

I'm just going to copy an image from @Shadowsong's spriting thread which contains 90%+ sprites which are currently in use in some OT server.

And here are some screenshots from Medivia using some of the environment ones if you believe those are just 'scenes' and equipment / creatures being used in-game.

If the majority of these sprites are in use then is it still not considered 'OT', similarly to mapping? How would you know if some OTs are using the sprites or not? Are you just going to clump them all together and say "All sprites, whether they are used or not, are not classified as 'open tibia' due to being unable to verify all possible cases"?
Just because not every server utilizes custom sprites does not mean they aren't used. Necronia, Medivia, Therran, Ascalon, all of the pokemon/dbz/other spin off servers, and so on all fall under this category of using custom sprites. I'm sorry, but not everyone wants to run a RL map server or some other boring evo/uninspired server, sorry for trying to get out of the mold and be unique.

I recommend to stop this controversy and allow small art (spriting items, environments, outfits, and effects) in the OpenTibia section of the forum which is not buried under a subforum no one is able to see. It would go a long way to help get the community to try and trust your judgements as a new admin. If you fight every little thing the community wants then people will longer see fit to remain in this community. Splintering the OT community is going to do irreparable damage and diminish the community even further than it is now.

 

[Shadowsong]

Mapping Showoff is still there because it was always under Open Tibia (Small Art was not).

Small Art was always there on the front page, yet you changed that. The "it was always like that" argument doesn't hold any water here, especially since it counters your argument once again.
I don't understand the reasoning behind this at all. It being where it was, never bothered anyone in almost a decade, yet now when you show up it is magically decided that it shouldn't be there. It's biased selection, is all.
I wonder what happened to the mentality of creating community polls, like you seem to have done previously before making changes.

And it's also at least 5 times more popular (by post count). It is also a little bit more relevant to the game (the game uses a map, whether you can download it or not) than random sprites (graphics which never was in the game).

If we're gonna talk numbers and custom sprites, collectively, projects that started as OT servers using custom sprites are currently attracting more attention than Tibia (the game everything here originated from) ever did. I could list you a bunch of servers, but just looking at 1 of them is more than enough to speak on its own. So I'd say custom sprites are more relevant than you think. Personally, I worked very hard to attract the interest of the members of this community to engage in spriting activities, and with good success. Not to discredit several other frequent members of the Small Art section, who did the same thing alongside me. And we felt very happy seeing the growth and the activity of that small board over the last 2-3 years.

Therefore, mapping is related to Open Tibia and your own art work is not so much. If you were sharing it or using it on an OTS, that would fall under OT category somewhere.

My own artwork has nothing to do with this suggestion. I could give less of a shit about my own artwork if there is no one to appreciate it or engage with it, if my, and every other artist's work is thrown aside as irrelevant spocks on this vast canvas of some 300 people that you consider too irrelevant to hear out, as it seems.

I've shared my fair share of sprites, guides, helpful tips, tutorials on youtube and written ones on this forum, as well as going as far as to create a website to accumulate all free work made by the community so that people could use it.

In conclusion,
I fully agree that maps are more relevant to OT than sprites, but by forcing spriters deeper down into the gutter, you're not exactly helping to make these sprites and custom OTs more relevant. Which, of course, I never suspected was your motive. But this is not about what you want. This is not about what solely I want. This is about taking your responsibility as a new a administrator and listening to the community you're managing.

I'm gonna pretend like I'm a prophet and predict that you'll remain ignorant to all reason I can put out behind this, go ahead and pretend like none of this matters.

The controversy your recent changes caused has stricken quite a revolt among good people around here, and you're aware of that, yet all the pleading seems to be falling on deaf ears.
Just go flat out and say it: I'm the admin, my donger is huge now and I'm gonna do what I want.
Cause that's what your actions are saying, and people are mad. I'm mad too. No wonder everyone is leaving.

 

[Mackan™]

Many maps made never go into an OT. Should those images be considered art and be moved to "Large Art" since they only show a put-together of a bunch of sprites?
Some people even map for "art" instead of making the map playable. This reasoning is beyond logic and you can't possibly be this determined about this thing.
Being unwilling to admit to doing mistakes and not listening to the community shows a poor leadership. Change this behaviour asap unless you want to be the leader of an empty forum.

I've already seen some big names of the community leave. You should consider what people are asking for before more people leave.

 

[Don Daniello]

People leaving (or claiming to have left, yet we still see them online all the time) have no influence on my decision. Only you, who post here are heard by me.

I am not against creating a forum for "Sprites". I have expressed the possibility to create a forum under resources but I find it's not a suitable place due to the nature of these threads. The example you pasted (@Shadowsong's spriting thread) seems like it would fit more into the Jobs forum. He is basically marking what sprites are purchased by what server and I guess the rest is for sale. The thread even says there is a website where he has his own store. Remember that we don't allow a marketplace here and I do recognize that selling your completely own, original graphics is not the same as selling data packs you mostly downloaded, so I'm not saying it's a huge issue here. He says there will be some free sprites to download (where?) but none of them are available here. You could say there is no forum under "Downloads" to put those sprites. And if that's the case, we can definitely have one. Shadowsong's thread, however, belongs to Jobs section because its main purpose seems to be to advertise his services.

What is clear here is that there has been multiple different things going on in the Small Art forum that didn't really fit there even though everybody thought it did. It was not meant for Sprites showoff, Jobs such as advertising own store with sprites and as you claim downloads for sprites. The reason why I moved it away was because it wasn't clearly defined. Now we have the chance to figure out what is needed and where to put it. I'm just trying to find out what is really needed based on the content instead of your rage, hate and unfounded argumetns.

 

[Animera]

also please do not forget ot is still in development, back in the days we runned servers from our local pc.
These days you need a website + design, signature? advertisement banner? content to share on your webpage etc.

Also i will use custom sprites in my project, i think the "art" section could use some push to stimulate and expand..

 

[Shadowsong]

You can ignore my posts all you want just because I worded it with some rage, but what I said is still true. My arguments are definitely founded on the fact that yours aren't. At this point you're doing what you want and just trying to pretend like there is a reason behind it. What are some real arguments? If you are confused, I'll go through this down here one more time, maybe it can help come to a conclusion:

I am not against creating a forum for "Sprites". I have expressed the possibility to create a forum under resources but I find it's not a suitable place due to the nature of these threads.

What is clear here is that there has been multiple different things going on in the Small Art forum that didn't really fit there even though everybody thought it did. It was not meant for Sprites showoff, Jobs such as advertising own store with sprites and as you claim downloads for sprites. The reason why I moved it away was because it wasn't clearly defined. Now we have the chance to figure out what is needed and where to put it. I'm just trying to find out what is really needed based on the content instead of your rage, hate and unfounded argumetns.

It's hard to find a place to fit them in because such a place currently doesn't exist. As we concluded before, Small Art is right now not optimized for sprites but rather for all-around small art including other things. Creating a new board for them and making them gain more visibility for promotion of artists and the activity of spriting in the OT community is in fact the solution and the point of this entire thread.

The example you pasted (@Shadowsong's spriting thread) seems like it would fit more into the Jobs forum. He is basically marking what sprites are purchased by what server and I guess the rest is for sale. The thread even says there is a website where he has his own store. Remember that we don't allow a marketplace here and I do recognize that selling your completely own, original graphics is not the same as selling data packs you mostly downloaded, so I'm not saying it's a huge issue here. He says there will be some free sprites to download (where?) but none of them are available here. You could say there is no forum under "Downloads" to put those sprites. And if that's the case, we can definitely have one. Shadowsong's thread, however, belongs to Jobs section because its main purpose seems to be to advertise his services.

I appreciate you not getting riled up around my self-promotion in my own thread, and to make things clearer in this discussion, I went and removed all references to my web shop in the thread if that makes you happier.
And I did have a bunch of free to use sprites in the thread, but they were removed, everything is on Pixel Realm right now with my and other artists' work in a simple to browse collection.
I am marking which sprites have been purchased by which project not because I want to promote my work, but I want to show appreciation to the creators of those servers for working with me, and for working on a custom project as opposed to download and run crap. Is that wrong? Should I remove all references to other projects as well? I see where this is going.

People leaving (or claiming to have left, yet we still see them online all the time) have no influence on my decision. Only you, who post here are heard by me.

That's the thing Don, they should have an influence on your decision. When so many people at once decide to leave, something is not right. You are the one who's able to make changes around here that influence their decisions like they should influence yours. Nobody woke up thinking "Aaah here I go, for no reason, I'm gonna leave this forum and community I've been a part of for half a decade. What a great way to spend my day. I'm a genius."
What's been going on has prompted this response. Do something about it.

 

[Don Daniello]

Wait, I thought you left @Shadowsong. Is it the ghost speaking or you're just not serious about this?

 

[Shadowsong]

Wait, I thought you left @Shadowsong. Is it the ghost speaking or you're just not serious about this?

Where did I say I left?
Is that what you want? Everyone around here to leave?

Once again, ignore all my arguments and jump to some stupid assumptions, that's the way to go.

 

[Sun]

Wait, I thought you left @Shadowsong. Is it the ghost speaking or you're just not serious about this?

Why are you suddenly acting like a little brat? You're not a kid anymore & should act your age.
The way you come across in this message makes it look like you seriously do want people to leave OtLand.

I don't have much to say about the other changes but, sprites at the very least should indeed have a spot on the front page.
It inspires and promotes creation of custom servers & custom content.

That YOU do not agree with it should NOT be what makes the final decision. Take a look at the poll, the community has already spoken.
It's like you are seriously trying your hardest to piss the majority off with your dictatorship.

OtLand just before you started making changes did not become what it has from 1 person, it's a community that has grown with a large group of core members.
Completely ignoring all the core members will surely make this forum will slowly crumble to dust.

 

[Basiq GM]

Where did I say I left?
Is that what you want? Everyone around here to leave?

Once again, ignore all my arguments and jump to some stupid assumptions, that's the way to go.

 

[Don Daniello]

So who here would post their sprites if a section was created under "Downloads"? Speak now or forever hold your peace.

 

[Shadowsong]

So who here would post their sprites if a section was created under "Downloads"? Speak now or forever hold your peace.

I will post all sprites from PixelRealm in a compilation if such a board is created, but that's not the point. It would be even nicer to get this addition of a board, but the main concern is making a Sprites Showoff board that's visible, or just moving Art back under community on the front page, as the votes say.

 

[Basiq GM]

So who here would post their sprites if a section was created under "Downloads"? Speak now or forever hold your peace.

um.. Hello sir, Do you own a pair of these?

 

[Don Daniello]

See, the poll has nothing to do with who the real authors/creators are. I'm sure we won't have 34 people post their sprite packs or even individual sprites right away.

 

[eiserne festung]

Jesus, you don't understand it or?
or you don't wanna understand it....

 

[Shadowsong]

See, the poll has nothing to do with who the real authors/creators are. I'm sure we won't have 34 people post their sprite packs or even individual sprites right away.

Perhaps not until this drama is left in the dust and we can move on, but it will create a place to rehabilitate the environment from this mess and show that you that you care about what the community wants. I think that's more than necessary at this point.