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How can we discourage botting?

kamilcioo

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the interface of your game is not just the game menus but rather the whole part in which the player is able to interact with.
What I tried to say is that the need for botting happens because tibia isn't a fun game for the vast majority that still plays it. It's highly focused on PVP and PVE is based upon grinding continuously
The need of botting happens because people want to be better (higher lvl, higher skills, richer, etc) than everyone else.
Tibia is actually an interesting game if you focus on exploring. Without reading guides there are months of fun exploring and solving quests.
 

zbizu

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The need of botting happens because people want to be better (higher lvl, higher skills, richer, etc) than everyone else.
What if we make exp rates scale with top player and skill scaling with level?
 

kamilcioo

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What if we make exp rates scale with top player and skill scaling with level?
Scaling exp rates with top players will help starting people but will not have an effect on top ones.

@Topic
I used to play dragon nest long time ago. There was a server wipe because company didn't do backups (at least they said so) and they gave everyone tons of gold. So much gold that farming 1-4 people dungeons (fields with only normal monsters) was pointless. People had to make 1-8 people raids (dungeons with bosses) which were not possible to bot due to difficulty and bugs. Botting was dead, end-game content was hard and rewarding but starting people gap was so enormous that it was pointless to even start game. Spending 10 euro was worth more than farming those 1-4 dungeons for few days str8.
 
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Night Wolf

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The need of botting happens because people want to be better (higher lvl, higher skills, richer, etc) than everyone else.
Tibia is actually an interesting game if you focus on exploring. Without reading guides there are months of fun exploring and solving quests.
I think you missed the point of my original comment, the vast majority of game content is limited by boring grinding.
It doesn't take much to figure out botting is too rewarding (in terms of actual rewards and also in terms of fun since you cut to the chase the part where actually is interesting).

If the game was redesigned to make leveling and fighting more fun, people wouldn't mind botting because that would also skip the fun part that would be leveling.
 

zbizu

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I think you missed the point of my original comment, the vast majority of game content is limited by boring grinding.
It doesn't take much to figure out botting is too rewarding (in terms of actual rewards and also in terms of fun since you cut to the chase the part where actually is interesting).

If the game was redesigned to make leveling and fighting more fun, people wouldn't mind botting because that would also skip the fun part that would be leveling.
The chase is better than the catch. People will spend hours levelling their skill, but if their final goal (for playing the game) is achieved, they will quit. You can't really fix it with repetitive events. Some people will stay for the community, but even the community will move on to next game/server one day. Cipsoft tried with charms and imbuements, but it completely killed the fun for me.
 
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I have a rule: if a game is so mechanical that a bot (which is stupid) can play, then the game is not worthy to play. A good game should require human intelligence. It is simply stupid when it requires you to spend so many hours doing repetitive tasks that it is worthy to invest time programming a bot to do it for you.
So, IMO the best way to avoid botters is making an interesting game, who requires human intelligence.

Cheers,

Assassina Mutante.
 
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Cardinale

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1, create a character.
2, up some levels.
3, search for a place to bot.
4, you will find people texting you like (hey im botting here)
5, bann it!
 

zbizu

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I have a rule: if a game is so mechanical that a bot (which is stupid) can play, then the game is not worthy to play. A good game should require human intelligence. It is simply stupid when it requires you to spend so many hours doing repetitive tasks that it is worthy to invest time programming a bot to do it for you.
So, IMO the best way to avoid botters is making an interesting game, who requires human intelligence.

Cheers,

Assassina Mutante.
This will not work. You haven't seen average player.
 

mdwilliams

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What is the relevance of Dura?
The way Dura is designed in terms of player experience is along the lines of @MutantAssassin's post regarding games requiring player intelligence. It flys in the face of @zbizu's comment regarding the average player (though you could argue that the average player doesn't play Dura anyway).
 
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Silba

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The way Dura is designed in terms of player experience is along the lines of @MutantAssassin's post regarding games requiring player intelligence. It flys in the face of @zbizu's comment regarding the average player (though you could argue that the average player doesn't play Dura anyway).
Ah right. Because botting is rampant on dura. Just last night I helped my friend set up his bots lol
 

mdwilliams

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Botting isn't rampant on Dura at all - some people are attempting it though and they are getting caught - shame your friend finds it necessary.
The point is that the game design of Dura is such that cave botting isn't something that people are generally choosing to attempt - the gameplay is actually fun and challenging.
 
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This will not work. You haven't seen average player.
I really hope not. In real tibia, some of the most memorable moments that I had in PvM were related at doing very crazy huntings. My motto is: "if you didn't almost die at least twice in a hunting, you are not hunting the right monsters lol". But in real tibia, even at the days in which I was skilled enough to avoid death, what did I get by doing that? A huge waste of supplies, a sucky loot and a very small ammount of experience points. Hunting weaker creatures, I would have a lower chance of dying and I would waste less potions. Plus, I would kill them more quickly, slaying much more monsters at the same amount of time. Surely, each killed monster would give me less experience, but the amount compensates that by far. So, most rewarding huntings (for xp and loot) in Tibia are the boring ones, which can be performed by a dumb boot script.
The main error design in Tibia is that the difference between the loot and experience given by strong and weak creatures is not high enough, so noob hunting are far more worthy than risky (and funny) ones. The game should encourage us to do hunting that scripts can't do, not the other way. IMO, any real solution for bots must include a careful review of xp table of all monsters to fix that error design. Also, because it would make PvM also interesting, so people wouldn't focus so much on quickly level up to be strong on PvP.
 
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Silba

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Botting isn't rampant on Dura at all - some people are attempting it though and they are getting caught - shame your friend finds it necessary.
The point is that the game design of Dura is such that cave botting isn't something that people are generally choosing to attempt - the gameplay is actually fun and challenging.
We now have 30 bots online, and that's just me and my friend. If we can do it, so can others, botting is rampant, mostly on makers. No bans as of yet, but a few bans here and there won't hurt, Dura and it's GMs are currently doing everything i outline as stupid in this thread from the first post.

Dura is just another low rate botfarm server that's a bit harder to play and insists it's more fun to play.


few things for the future:

"how to code a variety of player abilities and behaviour in creatures"
start from the beginning, teach rats how to use a ladder and search food
the goal is for pvm to blend in with pvp on any level

"how to code mouse gestures in game actions"
i.e. press a mouse button to draw a circle around your character initiates an exori upon release,
the ultimate goal is for the pointer to become 1 with sword and spell

That's interesting, most likely out of my scope but something i wouldn't mind seeing some day.
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I really hope not. In real tibia, some of the most memorable moments that I had in PvM were related at doing very crazy huntings. My motto is: "if you didn't almost die at least twice in a hunting, you are not hunting the right monsters lol". But in real tibia, even at the days in which I was skilled enough to avoid death, what did I get by doing that? A huge waste of supplies, a sucky loot and a very small ammount of experience points. Hunting weaker creatures, I would have a lower chance of dying and I would waste less potions. Plus, I would kill them more quickly, slaying much more monsters at the same amount of time. Surely, each killed monster would give me less experience, but the amount compensates that by far. So, most rewarding huntings (for xp and loot) in Tibia are the boring ones, which can be performed by a dumb boot script.
The main error design in Tibia is that the difference between the loot and experience given by strong and weak creatures is not high enough, so noob hunting are far more worthy than risky (and funny) ones. The game should encourage us to do hunting that scripts can't do, not the other way. IMO, any real solution for bots must include a careful review of xp table of all monsters to fix that error design. Also, because it would make PvM also interesting, so people wouldn't focus so much on quickly level up to be strong on PvP.
Thank you, i had thought about this a little bit, but hearing it from someone else really helps. I think you are spot on. I need to find a way to make this happen but try not to exclude solo play. In my experience the fun hunts are team hunts and the ones that aren't botted easily. To make a fun spot soloable would be a challenge without encouraging someone to bot it.
 
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Peonso

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Thank you, i had thought about this a little bit, but hearing it from someone else really helps. I think you are spot on. I need to find a way to make this happen but try not to exclude solo play. In my experience the fun hunts are team hunts and the ones that aren't botted easily. To make a fun spot soloable would be a challenge without encouraging someone to bot it.
I don't think you can balance the same content for both group and solo play while it being balanced rewarding for both. On instanced dungeon/areas you can scale difficult+reward to match the amount of players, in a open world a group will faceroll solo play oriented content. If you figure out a solution tell me.
 
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Silba

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I don't think you can balance the same content for both group and solo play while it being balanced rewarding for both. On instanced dungeon/areas you can scale difficult+reward to match the amount of players, in a open world a group will faceroll solo play oriented content. If you figure out a solution tell me.
It would have to be not the same content, and for a group of more than 2 people the "solo" place should not be worth sharing the exp or loot and the "group" place should not be possible unless you really out level the spawn. I'm not too fond of the idea of instanced areas or dungeons, the open map is the best part of tibia in my opinion.

It's going to take a lot of thought on how to balance something like this, but it doesn't have to be perfect.
 
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Silba

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Is this from rl? whatever it is, it would be funny to see on rl today, with cheaters being up to and over lvl 1000, it could take years to die on the fields.

Reminds me of an idea I have for punishing botters while they're afk, without them knowing. I could teleport them to an exact replica of my map, just without any functioning npcs/depots and change their temple ID. Kind of like a full scale jail.
 

Ochman

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I spam it everywhere I go, monsters should have a (hidden) level that rewards you when you kill a higher "level" monster and punishes you if you kill a lower "level" monster.
It has so many pros and so few cons that I really do not understand why it's not widely implemented (outside of tibia scene many mmos - and not just them - use this system).
 
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