OtLand Introducing Support Team group

Hello Dear Otlanders!

Not long from the last announcement, I have some piece of information that you might find interesting!

It is my pleasure to introduce Support Team group to Otland.

1. What is it?
Support Team is a new group of members on Otland, just like Administrators, Community Managers, Global Moderators and so on.

It consists of skilled members who have been around here on our forum for a while and feel comfortable providing in-depth, technical support to all community members on the Support Board, write tutorials and guides for newcomers as well as advanced users and perform other tasks in order to share the knowledge about OpenTibia in our community.

Support Team members serve as a close link between regular members and the Staff (if we weren't close enough) and are also a role models for the OT community. Comparing to the Tibia world, we may call them Tutors.

2. What are the duties of Support Team members?
As mentioned before, primary duties of Support Team members is to provide high-quality answers for any OT-related problems that members have on the Support Board. The goal is to not miss a single thread and solve every problem. It will be difficult in some cases, so we at least aim to provide hints and guidance. This support is not a free slavery service, though. The Support Team members are equipped with moderation permissions on the Support Board to keep it clean and organized. They also work to maintain the history of solved threads by marking them appropriately and making the information reusable to other members. This leads to creation of a large FAQ collection out of solved support threads.

Alternatively or in addition to the above, Support Team members might work on tutorials and guides (basic and advanced) that go into our Articles section or can contribute to the TFS documentation (or other projects).

It is possible that they might perform other individual duties instead and those will be approved on a case-by-case basis.

3. What are the benefits of Support Team members?
Support Team members are rewarded for their hard work for the OT community. Support Team members get all the Premium benefits without donating even a cent, because we value contribution more than money.
Apart from all the Premium members perks, Support Team members receive forum-wide recognition, access to a private board where they can discuss and coordinate support-related matters, own group color and other yet-to-be-determined rewards.

4. How to apply to be a Support Team member?
You don't. Yes, there is no application process. I (or other Staff member) will appoint Support Team members myself. Members with recognizable reputation (not necessarily reputation points) will receive offer letters (private messages) from me. They will be able to accept or reject participation in this project.

After they are appointed as Support Team members, they have to keep minimum activity according to the rules (vacation periods are possible though) to maintain their status (otherwise they will be demoted). Permanent (life-long), honorary memberships might be awarded in future for extraordinary members and those do not have to maintain the minimum activity.

There are no guidelines how to obtain an offer letter, nor we publish any requirements or appointment methods. However, if you hold skills mentioned in first section and are known to the Support Board users and moderators, post politely and professionally, there is a good chance you might get an offer.

There is no limit to the number of users we can appoint. I would love to appoint all of you and give you all the benefits if you satisfy the requirements. However, there is some capacity to what we can keep control of. Don't be sad if you don't get appointed despite your hard work. We might offer you participation later or we might have missed you (probable if you are a ninja). This is why sometimes it is acceptable for other members to nominate someone for the participation in this program and such nomination will be evaluated.

5. End Notes
This week I will be preparing and evaluating standardized rules relating to expected troubles that might arise. We also need some time to tune up the technical stuff (Talaturen is very busy with work and study). I expect to start sending offer letters next week and this is probably the time when things start changing, hopefully for better. Isn't it worth helping others now?


Please post any comments, suggestions or concerns you have!

 

[Scarlet Ayleid]

haha xD
<<

 

[Runes]

haha xD
<<

Almost.

 

[Deleted member 92788]

Why are you guys chillin' around in this thread? I see many threads in the support board which are unanswerd.

 

[J.Dre]

Neither of them regularly enforce, nor follow the rules of the sections they're obligated to oversee. If this were an actual job, they'd most likely be fired by now. However, the support has been good enough.

Edit: I suggest a form of Skype conference before hand to go over how they're supposed to operate among the boards. If this did previously occur, I can only conclude they're unable to listen and follow.

I would argue it is a real life situation and job. They're not in some fantasy MMORPG helping people, are they? Rules are rules, they should be enforced and followed - especially ones as simple and laid back as these... If they can't do so, they shouldn't have be given this opportunity in the first place. Letting small things like this slide by is the beginning of a long train of abuses, and lack of responsibility among staff.

Edit: Easily enforceable rules (enforced with one post - one word in fact), should be enforced. It's really that simple.

Which are the "rules" you are refering to?
You can nag at us all day, but that won't change anything, however giving hints on how we can improve might help.

The fact that you have to ask concerns me. And I'm not "nagging you", I'm suggesting Don inform you these rules should be followed to the letter. As they never were before strictly enforced because of the lack of staff, there is now a team dedicated to the specific agenda of assisting those in need of help, and there should be no excuse as to why they're not being enforced.

So you cannot name a example and you will keep going with that general talk?

Alright, let me explain then...

One example: In 2008, Xenios announced these rules nearly 5 years ago, which should be edited because in 2011 Don Daniello made this rule, which applies restrictions to support. My point is that you and Ninja have both began supporting members before knowing the version of TFS they're asking support for. This leads to continuous support to those who have stolen or acquired TFS elsewhere on unaffiliated website or forums. Your support is good and appreciated, but it should be given only after the procurement of such information. Simply enforceable rules should be followed now that there is a team dedicated to such agenda.

P.S. I am not nagging you, bashing you or being discriminative...I'm pointing out a flaw in this system.

Edit: I apologize for the misunderstanding, but my initial post on the previous page was toward Don Daniello, a member of the community who needs to be informed of this situation, not you or Ninja. Your support is great... I only said if this happened in a "real life employment situation," people would be fired, and the person who discovered this issue would be promoted. (No, I do not want, nor expect any form of reward from this - I'm only making a point.) However, I would love to see this changed - I hope what I am suggesting is quite obvious now.

http://otland.net/f16/zombie-infection-event-172605/

Over the last few days I have seen several threads which have been resolved, yet the team still does not understand there are rules which need to be enforced and followed. The one above is a key example of what is happening. Let me put it this way, it works both ways: the member who needs help should follow the rules and not receive any assistance from this team unless they do so, and those who are there to assist this member should be enforcing the rules by reminding others of this. Is it really that difficult to simply ask, "Which version of TFS are you using?" before answering or solving someones problem? You can also post something to the extent of, "You will not receive proper assistance by the support team until your thread abides by the rules set forth by the staff of OtLand." While the goal is to help, we must do so properly. If you continuously support those who steal from OtLand, you're contributing to what Talaturen has been trying to stop ever since the SVN was created. You're basically telling them, "Hey, go download the latest TFS on another forum and we'll provide you with awesome freaking support here on OtLand."

This support team was supposed to be comprised of smart, mature and knowledgeable individuals to help guide to success newcomers in OpenTibia, and also set an example. Currently, your example is handing thieves a silver platter. You might as well link them to the TFS on other forums and tell them, "No worries, download this and I'll help you set it up." This has to change... Is it so difficult to ask a simple question? If your answer is yes, you shouldn't be apart of this team. By asking these questions and strictly enforcing the rules, doesn't mean they won't receive support by other "non-ST" members on this forum (even though they technically shouldn't). It's only important for this "special team" of individuals to provide support to those who follow rules, and quite frankly deserve the help from this team. Otherwise, let other members help resolve their issues. This should be strictly enforced, especially for this team.

Hopefully this is my last rant about this issue that shouldn't have ever become a problem in the first place.

---

Personal note: Why does it take multiple ST members to solve a single persons issues? It's not a competition fellas, you're all in this together. I see two, or even sometimes three members in the same thread posting the same script one after another making tiny little changes competing for reputation or likes (if not that, then what?). Whoever posts something first within a support thread should be the one who carries out the support to this member. If this ST member cannot solve the issue, he should then contact another member to assist him. There's no need to fight or compete for anything.

--- Edit ---

I'll be suggesting to Don that a Banner be added to the support area enforcing this. If he and Talaturen agree to this, there should be no excuse as to why rules weren't followed by either ST members and/or regular members seeking support. A huge banner saying something to the extent of, "The OtLand Support Team will not provide support to those who do not follow the rules." should prevent this from happening on a regular basis, and be a key reminder to the members of this team to avoid providing support to people who acquire TFS elsewhere.

 

[Lessaire]

LOL@Semaphore locking per support thread. Blocking I/O on help plz! Just what we need to streamline the process.

J.Dre... I will quote myself from the support team forum, so you have the luxury of MY viewpoint on the matter.

Well, the way I see it, there is a lot of leeway in the sense that one could postulate most features people question about are also present in the 0.3.7pre tagged release in the public SVN. For example, this thread that was moved is a question about functions which are also in the aforementioned publicly released code, meaning the question itself isn't necessarily in need of the TFS 0.4 protections. Also anything prior to rev3429 shouldn't need protection either, as this was the publicly released 0.3.6pl1 tag

What a confusing mess.

and from the feedback thread

I don't think leaks are as much of a problem, at least anymore I haven't seen much of it, as ex-Premium members seeking support with older versions which they obtained fair and square. This particular group of users is in a rather damning position, as they can't even talk to other members in the same situation, who possibly are armed with the knowledge that could help them, because the rules forbid them such assistance. And by talk, I mean in normal threads. Sure there is PM, but being barred from talking about it in normal threads there is no method of discovery of WHO to PM.

What you're suggesting I honestly find offensive. You really want to SUCK every last hope for even a shred of fun in going this? The corporate 'this is a real job and the red tape must be obeyed at all costs' attitude is fine and dandy when it comes with a paycheck. This doesn't.

I'm all for treating this like serious business and giving it the professional grade treatment... but you can take the Hammurabi lawyer attitude and place it somewhere unpleasant. I'd rather concentrate on helping first. If the user is found out to be a TFS thief, let them be banned. But because of the point I raise above, I give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not like the thieves can't be banned, and the threads moved to the premium support board.

And, the thread you linked, the users posted error message makes it rather obvious they aren't using a later TFS, because the output would have been more verbose. Chalk that up to not needing to ask the user what version of TFS, because our support team is

comprised of smart, mature and knowledgeable individuals

 

[J.Dre]

LOL@Semaphore locking per support thread. Blocking I/O on help plz! Just what we need to streamline the process.

J.Dre... I will quote myself from the support team forum, so you have the luxury of MY viewpoint on the matter.



and from the feedback thread




What you're suggesting I honestly find offensive. You really want to SUCK every last hope for even a shred of fun in going this? The corporate 'this is a real job and the red tape must be obeyed at all costs' attitude is fine and dandy when it comes with a paycheck. This doesn't.

I'm all for treating this like serious business and giving it the professional grade treatment... but you can take the Hammurabi lawyer attitude and place it somewhere unpleasant. I'd rather concentrate on helping first. If the user is found out to be a TFS thief, let them be banned. But because of the point I raise above, I give them the benefit of the doubt. It's not like the thieves can't be banned, and the threads moved to the premium support board.

And, the thread you linked, the users posted error message makes it rather obvious they aren't using a later TFS, because the output would have been more verbose. Chalk that up to not needing to ask the user what version of TFS, because our support team is

How is that offensive? Call it what you like, but I'm only seeing to it that Talaturen's rule gets enforced by a team of people obligated to provide top notch support to individuals on this forum. For this small group of people, it shouldn't be too much to ask. And you should take things seriously, no matter what the situation may be. It's not worth the argument, so I won't go into a debate over this, but my point is pretty clear and quite accurate when it comes to enforcing what Talaturen wants. In the end, it's up to him and Don. I only stressed this matter to this point because I know without doing so, it may be pushed aside as "something to think about" when it should be dealt with now.

When it comes down to comparing the average regular member's ability and level of support to the support team's level of support, it should be "professional grade", as you so blatantly called it. I'm sorry you feel differently. Don and I had a long talk the other day and we discussed what this support team could lead to, and with your attitude, it won't go very far.

I'm sorry if it's too much to ask for a "Support Team" member to follow a simple rule that has been in place for years.

 

[Lessaire]

and with your attitude, it won't go very far.

Ironic, the feeling is mutual. Maybe it's just that I'm seeing you as a source of red tape, and insult to injury, it's delivered with an overly negative and demotivating manner.

I'm merely pointing out that in my experiences, encumbering volunteer staff with excessive bureaucracy never leads to enhanced productivity and better output. Perhaps your experiences have been different.

 

[J.Dre]

Ironic, the feeling is mutual. Maybe it's just that I'm seeing you as a source of red tape, and insult to injury, it's delivered with an overly negative and demotivating manner.

I'm merely pointing out that in my experiences, encumbering volunteer staff with excessive bureaucracy never leads to enhanced productivity and better output. Perhaps your experiences have been different.

"Which version of TFS are you using?" - It's as simple as that, Lessaire. Copy it, recite it, learn it, use it, enforce it. It's not even my rule, I just see an opportunity for it to be properly enforced, and it's not (I've seen it done maybe a couple times, but not nearly as much as it should be). If it's too much to ask, as I've said many times now, perhaps you aren't exactly what we need right now. It's such a simple rule to enforce.

Edit: I don't see why you're acting as though it's the end of the world if you ask what TFS someone uses before assisting them. I agree I've been pushing this quite hard, but it will be very beneficial to OtLand if enforced.

 

[Lessaire]

I don't see it as the end of the world. I see it as a barrier to help.

Mostly, because sometimes I don't need to, I can tell? Why bother when it's implicit by the question the poster is asking?

Example: If an OP is about a globalevent and the opening function is onTimer not onTime, do I really need to bother with this?

Anyways, my main contention is the negative tone in which you express your views on this, and that I think you're overstating the issue, nothing more than that. If Tala or Don chime in on this in favor with you, I will enforce this and say nothing more about it.

 

[J.Dre]

I don't see it as the end of the world. I see it as a barrier to help.

That's exactly what it is meant to be, a barrier to those who have acquired TFS "illegally," so to speak. It's not my rule, I just want it to be enforced by this team. And it's extremely simple to do so.

Edit: I've asked for an announcement banner to be placed above the support area stating this rule should be enforced and requires all users who need support to mention what TFS they're using to help you provide fast and efficient support to those who deserve and require it. All I ask is for this team to take initiative and help assist in cracking down on those who acquire TFS outside of Otland.

 

[Lessaire]

That's exactly what it is meant to be, a barrier to those who have acquired TFS "illegally," so to speak. It's not my rule, I just want it to be enforced by this team. And it's extremely simple to do so.

Edit: I've asked for an announcement banner to be placed above the support area stating this rule should be enforced and requires all users who need support to mention what TFS they're using to help you provide fast and efficient support to those who deserve and require it. All I ask is for this team to take initiative and help assist in cracking down on those who acquire TFS outside of Otland.

Whatever takes the burden off the team to act as enforcers so they can concentrate on helping. Don't get me wrong J.Dre, we have the same goal: breathing life back into the OpenTibia community.

What I would like to see is an 'Ex-Premium' group, so we can affirm that 'yes this user had premium once upon a time and is eligible to receive support for up to rev####' or something to that effect. It shouldn't be too hard to script something like that, do a lookup of when their premium expired to the current revision of the private trunk at the time. That would alleviate a lot of issues. The ones I stated that you conveniently didn't address: ex-Premium members seeking support with older versions which they obtained fair and square.

 

[J.Dre]

Whatever takes the burden off the team to act as enforcers so they can concentrate on helping. Don't get me wrong J.Dre, we have the same goal: breathing life back into the OpenTibia community.

What I would like to see is an 'Ex-Premium' group, so we can affirm that 'yes this user had premium once upon a time and is eligible to receive support for up to rev####' or something to that effect. It shouldn't be too hand to script something like that, do a lookup of when their premium expired to the current revision of the private trunk at the time. That would alleviate a lot of issues. The ones I stated that you conveniently didn't address: ex-Premium members seeking support with older versions which they obtained fair and square.

That is actually something I was hoping to see as well.

 

[Anoxi]

Wheres Cykotitan in this group, hes the best helper on this forum, even better than the global moderators and admins.

 

[GhostX]

Wheres Cykotitan in this group, hes the best helper on this forum, even better than the global moderators and admins.

Cyko has specific privileges also since he has contributed alot

 

[Don Daniello]

Cykotitan rejected the invitation and therefore is not a member of Support Team.

 

[Beo]

Cykotitan rejected the invitation and therefore is not a member of Support Team.

such a rebel .. ;[

 

[Rambo]

What I'd like to know is why does the Support Team has various amount of powers as same as global moderator.

Wouldn't it be only moderating support board?

 

[Scarlet Ayleid]

They only have Moderation rights in the Support Board afaik

 

[Rambo]

They only have Moderation rights in the Support Board afaik

Well, I've seen some of them moving threads from boards to boards.

and I believe it wasn't the support board when they last moved a thread, but yeah maybe you're right.

 

[Scarlet Ayleid]

They can move threads out of the Support Board to any other board(I could too when I was a Board Moderator), but they can't move stuff that is outside the Support Board