It's illegal in some way all of this?

[Vizzle]

Not really related to the topic, but i strongly believe you are wrong here. I'm sure they make enough money and more to make a comfortable living out of it.

Yeah but compared with Cipsoft? im comparing with them, not with other Ots.
And they might do a living out of it, but think about the fact that they are a TEAM, and not only one person gets the money, its shared with all the team.

 

[WibbenZ]

Why would Cipsoft sue Shadowcores? Its just a server of 2 or 3 k people? thats nothing, its not even a quarter of the currently Tibia players online right now, and lets talk about donations, I dont think Shadowcores makes a lot of money, probably it makes more than any other OT, but compared with Tibia? Its not enough profiteable to be a danger for Cipsoft.

And about the ''soft'' thingy, basically soft means, software, Cipsoft doesnt have pattent on that, no one has. You are free to use soft, you just can't copy the whole word (cipsoft) but you could use (cipesoft) and they wouldnt be able to do anything.

Did not say they would get sued for having soft in the name, just that its a layer over the other layer. And as someone above said, why would cip go after servers with 30 players? When they can go after 2, (source: TwifySoft AB) owners, of 2 servers with around 3k players.
And sueing Mark and Hani would scare up alot of ppl with ~ 30 players to stop having an ot.
And to be honest, if Mark leaves the ot community what would happen? He and Hani is the only users that develops good 9.x+ servers, we would have to stick with 8.6 servers for an eternity haha.

 

[Vizzle]

Did not say they would get sued for having soft in the name, just that its a layer over the other layer. And as someone above said, why would cip go after servers with 30 players? When they can go after 2, (source: TwifySoft AB) owners, of 2 servers with around 3k players.
And sueing Mark and Hani would scare up alot of ppl with ~ 30 players to stop having an ot.
And to be honest, if Mark leaves the ot community what would happen? He and Hani is the only users that develops good 9.x+ servers, we would have to stick with 8.6 servers for an eternity haha.

Yeah but having a layer over another layer its ok, you can't get sue because of that.

And honestly, Cipsoft likes OTservers, if they wanted to stop servers they would've done that long time ago, but why would they stop a community based on THEIR GAME, that actually makes publicity about Tibia itself, and actually gives new ideas to Tibia? Let me remind you that some stuff like mounts are taken from OTservers.

Cipsoft would only sue an Ot that woul have a pretty similar number of players like them, like for example 20,000 ppl, but that will NEVER happen, so don't worry.

If Mark leaves the community, eventually new developers will come, think about the fact that if people see how OT stops developing they will relize that new developers are needed.
We don't get that many developers now because we actually dont need it, come on guys, right now you can donwload an ot, put it on and thats it, 7 years ago this was impossible, you HAD to do lots of modifications.

When everything is EASY we don't work, When everything is HARD we work.

 

[WibbenZ]

Yeah but having a layer over another layer its ok, you can't get sue because of that.

And honestly, Cipsoft likes OTservers, if they wanted to stop servers they would've done that long time ago, but why would they stop a community based on THEIR GAME, that actually makes publicity about Tibia itself, and actually gives new ideas to Tibia? Let me remind you that some stuff like mounts are taken from OTservers.

Cipsoft would only sue an Ot that woul have a pretty similar number of players like them, like for example 20,000 ppl, but that will NEVER happen, so don't worry.

If Mark leaves the community, eventually new developers will come, think about the fact that if people see how OT stops developing they will relize that new developers are needed.
We don't get that many developers now because we actually dont need it, come on guys, right now you can donwload an ot, put it on and thats it, 7 years ago this was impossible, you HAD to do lots of modifications.

When everything is EASY we don't work, When everything is HARD we work.

You think mounts comes from ots? Well I can see now that you joined 2013..
Mounts are probbly from wow, mounts where added to ots (a player riding ex an orc) a couple of months after mounts we're added to rl.

If Mark leaves, otland would die if he dosen't give it to someone else, who has the knowledge to keep it alive. And what does things 7 years ago matter if he leaves, or has he created a bot that scans tibia wikia and adds the things to a server, compiles and writes a tutorial on otland about it? haha
And we need more devs. Elf has left, Stian has left including alot of other devs that we're working on 0.4, Slawakens, Paxton, Limannen, Colandus, Empty, [the panda mod, cant remember his name] Remeres has left. These are just the ones I can think of now, and alot more have left us.
So no, we do need more devs if we wanna come closer to rl tibia, or not stay in this rut.

And seeing as of today, and what has been for a while. There haven't been any new good devs that ive heard / seen. During 2013 ive seen alot of Summ, if he hasen't changed his name during this year, Ninja. Otherwise its been just alot of newbies in the support board that has joined us for more "download-and-run" servers.

 

[Mezara]

Not really related to the topic, but i strongly believe you are wrong here. I'm sure they make enough money and more to make a comfortable living out of it.

This. I've had servers in the past with a couple of hundred players and they've given me a bit of money and shadowcores got almost always got 1k players online and more so they can probably make a living out of it.

 

[Vizzle]

You think mounts comes from ots? Well I can see now that you joined 2013..
Mounts are probbly from wow, mounts where added to ots (a player riding ex an orc) a couple of months after mounts we're added to rl.

If Mark leaves, otland would die if he dosen't give it to someone else, who has the knowledge to keep it alive. And what does things 7 years ago matter if he leaves, or has he created a bot that scans tibia wikia and adds the things to a server, compiles and writes a tutorial on otland about it? haha
And we need more devs. Elf has left, Stian has left including alot of other devs that we're working on 0.4, Slawakens, Paxton, Limannen, Colandus, Empty, [the panda mod, cant remember his name] Remeres has left. These are just the ones I can think of now, and alot more have left us.
So no, we do need more devs if we wanna come closer to rl tibia, or not stay in this rut.

And seeing as of today, and what has been for a while. There haven't been any new good devs that ive heard / seen. During 2013 ive seen alot of Summ, if he hasen't changed his name during this year, Ninja. Otherwise its been just alot of newbies in the support board that has joined us for more "download-and-run" servers.

Let me make it clear, when you started playing RL Tibia I was already running an Otserv, so don't try to be a Master in something that YOU DON'T KNOW.
Let me tell you that the FIRST time I saw the mount script in Tibia was in 8.1 gentleman. SO DON'T TRY TO LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, because you clearly don't know.

If you don't believe me FUCKING SEARCH IT or ask someone who's been here for a long time, ok?

The devs left because they know OT are dying, and it's true also Tibia is dying, 2D Games are not the same as before, 3D games are taking over more and more, the problem of Tibia is that it didn't improve that much in graphics. (I've been playing since when it had that wallpaper of the woman in the village) and yeah, tibia didnt change a lot, in perspective, it could have stayed 2D but a little bit more 3D like the new Pokemon games are doing, you know what I mean? Search it.

2 things could happen if your ''God'' (Mark) decides to retire:
1) OT would stop devleopment and eventually would die.
or
2) Development would slow down a lot, and eventually people would get interested in development and start working on that.

Let me remind you that Mark wasnt the first person to develop Ots, yeah there were more people.

So before your fingers starts typing in the keyboard what your anus thinks, use your brain, Please.

And never, ever, say that someone joined in 2013, I have double, no, triple, the experience in Tibia and Ot that you have, and Im able to use my brain when I type something. Learn how to use it. Please.

Oh yeah, and Happy New Year.

 

[zbizu]

It can be inspiration and it's not serious danger for them(as others posted before).
Nobody was sued yet, because none of OT hosters(not even all in total) made more than 10% of Cipsoft's monthly profits.

Due to short lifetime of OT servers, things are a way cheaper, for example:
"donation stuff" is sold on OT servers for almost nothing while Cipsoft's services such as name change or premium are serious business.

 

[WibbenZ]

Let me make it clear, when you started playing RL Tibia I was already running an Otserv, so don't try to be a Master in something that YOU DON'T KNOW.
Let me tell you that the FIRST time I saw the mount script in Tibia was in 8.1 gentleman. SO DON'T TRY TO LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, because you clearly don't know.

If you don't believe me FUCKING SEARCH IT or ask someone who's been here for a long time, ok?

The devs left because they know OT are dying, and it's true also Tibia is dying, 2D Games are not the same as before, 3D games are taking over more and more, the problem of Tibia is that it didn't improve that much in graphics. (I've been playing since when it had that wallpaper of the woman in the village) and yeah, tibia didnt change a lot, in perspective, it could have stayed 2D but a little bit more 3D like the new Pokemon games are doing, you know what I mean? Search it.

2 things could happen if your ''God'' (Mark) decides to retire:
1) OT would stop devleopment and eventually would die.
or
2) Development would slow down a lot, and eventually people would get interested in development and start working on that.

Let me remind you that Mark wasnt the first person to develop Ots, yeah there were more people.

So before your fingers starts typing in the keyboard what your anus thinks, use your brain, Please.

And never, ever, say that someone joined in 2013, I have double, no, triple, the experience in Tibia and Ot that you have, and Im able to use my brain when I type something. Learn how to use it. Please.

Oh yeah, and Happy New Year.

Will not respond to everything:
Mark is not my "god" as you say, I know there we're devs before him, mostly from otfans.
As I said, ots we're not the first to create mouths you re*d
Source:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Mount
" Patch 1.1.0 (07-Nov-2004): Tauren players will no longer have the [Plainsrunning] ability, due to the availability of Kodo mounts! Tauren players can purchase the Kodo mount atBloodhoof village."

You said 8.1,

source:
tibia.wikia.com
"Update 8.1 (Christmas 2007). December 11, 2007"

Most devs are ofc leaving becuz its a dying game, and I don't think we will get any new devs. When the devs we have right now retiers, the ot community will probbly die out.
And Mark controlls alot of it, he owns twifysoft, tfs and otland.
OTland is the only forum right now, since otfans is dead.
Tfs is also the only distro to use, since OTserver is no longer dev, Same goes for the distros stian deved, the phyton server etc on vapus.
Twifysoft have around 3k players, making them the biggest servers right now.

And when was ot first developed? I made my first character 2004, and to this day am the only owner and the only user of the aac.
Seeing as tibia was at 7.20 back then, I hardely belive you had your own ot - prove me wrong.

 

[betoxz]

Well in mexico u can really live from the ''donations''.. haha because of the life cost here is so cheap.. this ''small profit business'' can be a opportunity to live a better life quality in my county! so thanks to know that CIPSOFT is not suing anyone! i will start my own project very soon

 

[Gall]

Will not respond to everything:
Mark is not my "god" as you say, I know there we're devs before him, mostly from otfans.
As I said, ots we're not the first to create mouths you re*d
Source:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Mount
" Patch 1.1.0 (07-Nov-2004): Tauren players will no longer have the [Plainsrunning] ability, due to the availability of Kodo mounts! Tauren players can purchase the Kodo mount atBloodhoof village."

You said 8.1,

source:
tibia.wikia.com
"Update 8.1 (Christmas 2007). December 11, 2007"

Pffff, WoW. Hahahahah, Wow first with mounts? Hahhahahaha. Lets not go so shallow:
http://wiki.uosecondage.com/Ultima_Online_Patch_Notes_for_10/29/1997

• You now get a message when riding and are out of stamina.

On 29th of october in 1997 they were fixing them already.

And really? He did not mean: OTServ were first to have such feature from all mmos. He meant "Let me tell you that the FIRST time I saw the mount script in Tibia was in 8.1 gentleman.". Please read more carefully, instead of making fool out of yourself, while trying to correct others...


About Cipsoft, well its nice to see them not mess around with OTServs unlike other devs do with their privates. I would guess its mainly as while OTServ do use real tibia content they don't aim for same audience target or aim for short term only, so cash lost from potential profit is not as big, while it keeps potential players easy to reach and willing to spend bit of money.

 

[WibbenZ]

Pffff, WoW. Hahahahah, Wow first with mounts? Hahhahahaha. Lets not go so shallow:
http://wiki.uosecondage.com/Ultima_Online_Patch_Notes_for_10/29/1997

• You now get a message when riding and are out of stamina.

On 29th of october in 1997 they were fixing them already.

And really? He did not mean: OTServ were first to have such feature from all mmos. He meant "Let me tell you that the FIRST time I saw the mount script in Tibia was in 8.1 gentleman.". Please read more carefully, instead of making fool out of yourself, while trying to correct others...


About Cipsoft, well its nice to see them not mess around with OTServs unlike other devs do with their privates. I would guess its mainly as while OTServ do use real tibia content they don't aim for same audience target or aim for short term only, so cash lost from potential profit is not as big, while it keeps potential players easy to reach and willing to spend bit of money.

If you are gonna correct me, read everything first.

I said:
- You think mounts comes from ots? Well I can see now that you joined 2013..
Mounts are probbly from wow, mounts where added to ots (a player riding ex an orc) a couple of months after mounts we're added to rl.

He responded with:
Let me tell you that the FIRST time I saw the mount script in Tibia was in 8.1 gentleman. SO DON'T TRY TO LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, because you clearly don't know.

To me, that sounds like he is trying to say someone within tibia, around 8.1 made mounts before anyone else from his point of view.
I then responded with the dates when I first read about the wow, via a simple google serach.


This was not about other games, this was about him trying to tell me that I got 0 knowledge about tibia, and that mounts we're added before 8.7.
And it was also about wow, how he tried to tell that cipsoft did not take mounts from wow.

He wrote:
And honestly, Cipsoft likes OTservers, if they wanted to stop servers they would've done that long time ago, but why would they stop a community based on THEIR GAME, that actually makes publicity about Tibia itself, and actually gives new ideas to Tibia? Let me remind you that some stuff like mounts are taken from OTservers.


"And really? He did not mean: OTServ were first to have such feature from all mmos. He meant "Let me tell you that the FIRST time I saw the mount script in Tibia was in 8.1 gentleman.". Please read more carefully, instead of making fool out of yourself, while trying to correct others..."
Wanna try that once more after you have read the full thread?

 

[Gall]

If you are gonna correct me, read everything first.

I said:
- You think mounts comes from ots? Well I can see now that you joined 2013..
Mounts are probbly from wow, mounts where added to ots (a player riding ex an orc) a couple of months after mounts we're added to rl.

He responded with:
Let me tell you that the FIRST time I saw the mount script in Tibia was in 8.1 gentleman. SO DON'T TRY TO LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, because you clearly don't know.

To me, that sounds like he is trying to say someone within tibia, around 8.1 made mounts before anyone else from his point of view.
I then responded with the dates when I first read about the wow, via a simple google serach.


This was not about other games, this was about him trying to tell me that I got 0 knowledge about tibia, and that mounts we're added before 8.7.
And it was also about wow, how he tried to tell that cipsoft did not take mounts from wow.

He wrote:
And honestly, Cipsoft likes OTservers, if they wanted to stop servers they would've done that long time ago, but why would they stop a community based on THEIR GAME, that actually makes publicity about Tibia itself, and actually gives new ideas to Tibia? Let me remind you that some stuff like mounts are taken from OTservers.


"And really? He did not mean: OTServ were first to have such feature from all mmos. He meant "Let me tell you that the FIRST time I saw the mount script in Tibia was in 8.1 gentleman.". Please read more carefully, instead of making fool out of yourself, while trying to correct others..."
Wanna try that once more after you have read the full thread?

I do keep my opinion that he meant mounts were first on OTSERV then on Tibia. Tibia's community requested mounts for a long time, but OTServ according to his opinion had it first. And therefore showed to Cipsoft, that they can implement such feature too. Thus they were taken from OTServers. Both that OTServ and Cipsofts Tibia were obviously inspired by other mmos, and that OTServ was not even trying to be innovative.

 

[Vizzle]

Well, Resuming everything.
OTservs will never get sue by Cipsoft.
So people, the last thing you have to worry is to get sue by Cipsoft.
The only thing you should really be worry about are DdoS, thats the CANCER of OTservs right now, I wish there was a way to track the people who try to DdoS your OT and be able to make them pay for that, they really don't deserve to be in this community.

 

[dominique120]

Vizzle the cancer of OT server and the OT community are all the people who download and run RL maps. These poeple download a map and datapack and expect to run it as is and not worry about anything. I'm sure this is why the community is dying.

 

[Vizzle]

Vizzle the cancer of OT server and the OT community are all the people who download and run RL maps. These poeple download a map and datapack and expect to run it as is and not worry about anything. I'm sure this is why the community is dying.

We always had this people, but before they didnt have the urge to download and run OTservs.
Why would you WASTE your time making and making a good OT, since after your OT will be online for a week it will get DdoS, if we wouldn't have that many DdoS, people would start giving a fuck about their OTs, but as I said, its a waste of time, fucking jealous people will make sure you don't have a good OT.
It's all connected gentleman.

 

[STiX]

Vizzle, is there a new point you're looking to make or something you require further clarification and/or insight to?
Also, see here for similar, former discussion on the matter.


@originaltopic:
OpenTibia uses no CIPSOFT copyrighted code and thus by extension, is not illegal.
Modifying CIPSOFT's Tibia client and redistributing it is breaking both the set ToSA (Terms of Service Agreement) and copyright law.
Players using the client to connect to an OpenTibia server are breaking the ToSA, not not necessarily the law by extension by all the countries I'm familiar enough with.
There was a fair chunk of information stolen directly from CIPSOFT in the past that a few of the older members of the community have, but none of it has been directly used in the creation of OpenTibia and is thus irrelevant to this discussion.

However, if you're running a variation of CIPSOFTs map, items or other similar IP, you are exposing yourself to a very minute risk of a lawsuit.
Based on CIPSOFT's actions (or there lack of) and their own copyright issues, it's highly likely anything would come of it.

Note that this is based on my own personal understanding and doesn't necessarily correlate to the laws and ruling precedents of any other country. Consult a lawyer if you're unsure.


@sidediscussion
If you're running a larger server for fun and profit, you'll invest in good hardware, a good host and DDoS protection. Admittedly it's arguably harder to grow naturally now though.


@sidediscussion2
I wouldn't just say developers are leaving due to the game dying, people are just growing up and moving on.

I joined the OpenTibia scene around 8 years ago when I was ~14 years old and had a lot more free time. Now I'm 21 and have a full-time job developing and customising an application called ServiceNow for a large mining company. Scripting and coding is not something I typically want to do at home after doing it all day at work, contrasted with before when the only time I would write code is for my hobby (OpenTibia). I wouldn't doubt many long-term members are in similar situations or now have other hobbies or even families (haven't heard from Nuker, Pekay or any of the other old guys for ages now!).

 

[Shadowsong]

Well correct me if i'm wrong but if you don't "sell" stuff on OTs but rather gift it to people as gratitude for their donation for "your work", I don't believe you can get in trouble for selling their stuff. Though still, we are using their sprites, client, and game overall, so there's definitely some things cipsoft could sue OT owners for - but as stated previously, don't think they would waste their time with some lowbie OT that probably hardly makes any money nor has a lot of players. Theoretically speaking, if they were to sue someone, probably the first target would be shadowcores but until that happens (and it hopefully won't), you have nothing to worry about.

Even Blizzard doesn't go sueing every single private WoW server, why would cipsoft do that? They already have a dying game. The least they need on their backs right now is to chase legal issues with some minor OT that actually helps their game in a way.

 

[WibbenZ]

Just how does ots help, They just steal from cips profits?

 

[betoxz]

Just how does ots help, They just steal from cips profits?

Giving maybe new ideas to CIPSOFT? like the wands and rods i think it was first introduced in OT and then CIPSOFT Took the idea and release it to Real tibia.

 

[Shadowsong]

Just how does ots help, They just steal from cips profits?

They take more ideas from OTs than you think. I'm not saying some of this ideas were good for the game, but if cipsoft deems them good, then I believe we could say we're helping them in a way.