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OTC 1.0 Comparison

how sad to see this is the only thing you could understood, please take a moment to read again (no one will judge you for not understanding the first time, it's a lot of words, I know...)

It's also sad to see that people who could actually be contributing in some way, are putting the "unnamed" project in a "god tier" where in fact those are fairly simple corrections in comparison to what a CS undergraduate learns in college. Is this what we have become now, a cult for "unnamed"? I'm not building hype, I'm stating the obvious: there's now a free version that isn't completed yet and it will take months to be completed. We can help build it together because it will be ours, or we can continue giving credits (and money) to people who clearly deserve none. This topic is more to advertise the otc1.0 project and see if there's anyone willing to help, because we surely do need a lot of help in the areas I mentioned (but you chose to ignore?).
Dude you just need to chill out. Kondrah can sell his work and tag the price he wants. If you do know the only people who buy his client is high value servers which can spent this lot of money on. No one gonna just drop 5k for personnal or development use. It's a final product meant only for the ones who can pay for it. Sadly this is how our world works. @Mehah project is awesome and we should support it. Why the fuck did you do a thread using a incomplete work which started some days ago to compare to a project which is being developed by years and funded by a lot of people?
Let him do things without this whole bullshit, we shouldn't be comparing what is better or not but what can be improved.
 
Dude you just need to chill out. Kondrah can sell his work and tag the price he wants. If you do know the only people who buy his client is high value servers which can spent this lot of money on. No one gonna just drop 5k for personnal or development use. It's a final product meant only for the ones who can pay for it. Sadly this is how our world works. @Mehah project is awesome and we should support it. Why the fuck did you do a thread using a incomplete work which started some days ago to compare to a project which is being developed by years and funded by a lot of people?
Let him do things without this whole bullshit, we shouldn't be comparing what is better or not but what can be improved.
It's really interesting how people is saying "you need to chill out" but they are the one cursing and taking it too serious. No one offended kondrah or his project, actually no one even used his name til his fan club showed up. The thread is just a comparison, a fair one imho, about how can we achieve great things together without spending a ridiculous amount of cash that, btw, you can buy a whole development team to create something amazing and bart client free with.
 
Why the fuck did you do a thread using a incomplete work which started some days ago to compare to a project which is being developed by years and funded by a lot of people?
Let him do things without this whole bullshit, we shouldn't be comparing what is better or not but what can be improved.
If you don't understand the reason then nothing I can say will make sense to you, but let's try to be very very very didatic.

The top product available is X, you want to show your new product that is being developed is already near as good as X in a certain aspect that people judge important. It's not like I'm criticizing X, I'm just showing that the product can achieve its performance already in just 2 weeks of work of someone who is actually interesting in do something for free as a hobby.

You read benchmarks not to say "fuck you bubblesort", but rather to understand where to improve further and what is the factor that determine the use of each case. I'm still astonished by the fact that half of people commenting here are actually understanding my topic as an attack to product X.
 
I don't see my topic in any way being as agressive as you guys are seeing, do I need to quote it entirely again?
I mean, I'm only comparing not to say otcv8 is bad but rather the opposite. It is so good that actually I'm using it as benchmark here. You understand the difference now? I wouldn't bother to mention something that is garbage.

It's like AMD and Intel conferences, for many years intel only benchmark against itself but lately she's comparing their changes with AMD because AMD clearly earned the spot. If Kondrah were going to open the src of otcv8, we wouldn't even be having any discussion, we would work on top of his changes and try to make it EVEN BETTER.

I'm just saying that for many years I have seeing people saying "if otcv8 were open, I would definetely contribute" but hey, now we have a working alternative, let's just dive into it? If somehow this isn't clear for you I would highly recommend you to read the last paragraphs that is usually where the conclusion of a text is:

I can see your point now, thought it wasn't very explicit (in my opinion) in your original post.
If we look at just the conclusion, there is no mention of OTCv8, which is what I was arguing for.
Most commercials, for example, compare their product with another "unnamed" one (whose logo's is usually blurred) and demonstrate the difference in the commercial.
I think this is what would have been presented in your post if only the conclusion and the two pictures would have been shown.
Honestly, the rise of OTCv1.0 excites me, I think it has great potential to become a fantastic project the more people work on it and not attempt to make capital from it.
Lets keep the O in OTC.
 
I can see your point now, thought it wasn't very explicit (in my opinion) in your original post.
If we look at just the conclusion, there is no mention of OTCv8, which is what I was arguing for.
Most commercials, for example, compare their product with another "unnamed" one (whose logo's is usually blurred) and demonstrate the difference in the commercial.
I think this is what would have been presented in your post if only the conclusion and the two pictures would have been shown.
Honestly, the rise of OTCv1.0 excites me, I think it has great potential to become a fantastic project the more people work on it and not attempt to make capital from it.
Lets keep the O in OTC.
Yeah, now we are talking. Couldn't agree more. Its really good to see valiable contributions in the open source comunity again!
 
Hi guys,
What do you usually do to discover the bottlenecks in code? Do you use any profiler?

I mean, Mehah fixed things related to life bars and the fps increased a lot. Did he discover that only looking at the code, or there's a tool to show where should people concentrate fixing?

Thanks..

And I have a suggestion... Try to copy the Tibia12 client layout / functionalities (like spell bars, panels, analyzer, etc.. . As a player I've already tried using official ot client to play in few servers but the client is not good enough.. IMO it needs a redesign more than needs performance improvements. (I'm not saying performance improvements aren't good, they are! You're doing a very good job Mehah, thanks so much)
 
@drakylucas I'm not sure you need to use a profiler for this, it's all related to rendering so you can just count the number of calls to "draw" of each object and identify places that may being called too much. I'm not sure which approach Mehah used though.

The layout and modules of tibia 12 is what we want to achieve in order to replace cip client for good, but we will need support on this task because it's a lot of stuff and we don't sell otc for living... so yeah, we work full time jobs, some of us even have kids or wife/girlfriends and we do this in the meantime. I'm sharing some stuff me and a friend did in the past with Mehah and other folks so we can cherry pick some stuff for the otc 1.0 version, but there's still a huge road until we have a beautiful layout. This is why we have this topic, to ask for support of people that may share this common interest as well!
 
one thing i would like to see could be a built-in-ip-changer beside the login box before logging in

But this would only work if everone uses the same version of OTClient i guess.
But if there would be more config.lua options (i dont know any example) there could be less reasons to change stuff in sources
 
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I'm not trying to generate any kind of rivality, the "unamed" version has some features which OTC1.0 don't have yet, like a better walk system, map caching and the exclusive thread. That justify it price? Absolutely not. And I have written A LOT about it and was very close to be banned from otland because of 'indirect advertsing' and also my lack of constraint in some posts. However, my tone don't make my points less valid...

Of course the "unamed" owner of the "unamed" otc will just cherry pick the improvements @Mehah is doing to his "unamed" project and as we move forward we will always be "one step behind" because it's simpler to copy the code of others than to actually developing and studying where the bottlenecks are. But let's remember for a second that @Mehah is working on this for 2 weeks now? The "unamed" owner will definetely have a hard time copying and solving all conflicts just to match the improvements otclient 1.0 already have achieved.

My point being: How to fight greedy and lack of trust in the community? We endorse projects such as OTC1.0 and Optimized TFS from @fabian766.
Being testers, donating, helping to improve other areas so they can focus in more critical and technical ones, raising issues and contributing also with the things you fix for yourself...
I didn't mentioned anything at all, I'm just comparing that FPS problems have all been fixed already, why this fixation with the "unnamed project"? You're totally butthurted because of free stuff? It doesn't makes sense to me unless you were somehow winning something over "unnamed" sales...
Poor @oen432, somehow you are the one with fixation here. Night Wolf talks about it's price. Links a thread he made about it, with a disclaimer about how daring he is doing so!! Writes a whole paragraph about what he thinks kondra next steps will be. And his point is "HOW WE FIGHT GREEDY", and not "HOW WE MOVE THE PROJECT FOWARD". Non-stop combative against something he think he didn't mentioned at all because he replace "OTCV8" with "unamed".

I made that point already in some bash-kondra thread, gonna make it again. You want the community moving foward go get your hands dirty doing it, and that's it. Kondra made nothing detrimental to this community, he is just not part of it. He is not into open source, let it be, he has no obligations with anyone. OTCV8 doesn't hinder any sort of development we can do within our open source projects.

If kondra somehow hurt your feelings, or tainted some purist view you have about open source, by working with what is your hobby, be informed that bashing him here adds no line of code to any open source project. MIT license was outlined to allow people to make money out of open source projects, literally designed to allow kondra to do what he did.
 
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What cracks me up the most is that kondrah released 90% of OTCv8 code and says that he is most likely to release missing 10% in the near future.
What is going to happen when he does release entire source code of OTCv8? I'm going to say that 80% of servers that are using OTC will be using OTCv8, even if OTC1.0 will be production ready.
 
What cracks me the most is that kondrah released 90% of OTCv8 code and says that he is most likely to release missing 10% in the near future.
What is going to happen when he does release entire source code of OTCv8? I'm going to say that 80% of servers that are using OTC will be using OTCv8, even if OTC1.0 will be production ready.
I wouldn't rely on that, then you hinder the development of anything based into uncertain expectations. People tackling the problems could lead to new/better solutions and even identifying other problems. I'm glad with Menah making OTC1.0, sad to see Night Wolf using it to once again bash kondra. Talking about both though, are those screenshots he posted comparing a 15x11 area to a 19x15 area, first one has less than 60% the number of sqms of the second one?
 
I wouldn't rely on that, then you hinder the development of anything based into uncertain expectations.
Oh, no, no. I didn't mean to say that any work on OTC should be stopped because OTCv8. I'm just saying, over-exaggerating possibilities and how things work when Mehah just started (2 weeks ain't much time, it's actually nothing while we are talking about such things as optimizations) development process. You can't just assume that everything works better and is better than anything else just because you see difference on few (very close in specs) computers.

Talking about both though, are those screenshots he posted comparing a 15x11 area to a 19x15 area, first one has less than 60% the number of sqms of the second one?
Yes, you are right. There are more tiles on OTCv8 screenshot.
 
I wouldn't rely on that, then you hinder the development of anything based into uncertain expectations. People tackling the problems could lead to new/better solutions and even identifying other problems. I'm glad with Menah making OTC1.0, sad to see Night Wolf using it to once again bash kondra. Talking about both though, are those screenshots he posted comparing a 15x11 area to a 19x15 area, first one has less than 60% the number of sqms of the second one?
Yes, you are right. There are more tiles on OTCv8 screenshot.

noname is pulled more to the left and 1.0 to the right, it won't make any difference, moreover , 1.0 is processing more objects, like creatures in the right corner and effects.
 
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noname is pulled more to the left and 1.0 to the right, it won't make any difference, moreover , 1.0 is processing more objects, like creatures in the right corner and effects.
V8 is drawing 285 while 1.0 is drawing 165, but there is also many spells being cast and with combat list open. One screenshot size is 1296x702 pixels the other 1799x978. Not only the parameters are not the same, but the unknown system might also be 2 unknown systems with different specs. It's the worst comparison ever made, and it was made for the sake of bashing kondra, not of presenting your project.
 
V8 is drawing 285 while 1.0 is drawing 165, but there is also many spells being cast and with combat list open. One screenshot size is 1296x702 pixels the other 1799x978. Not only the parameters are not the same, but the unknown system might also be 2 unknown systems with different specs. It's the worst comparison ever made, and it was made for the sake of bashing kondra, not of presenting your project.

gee, you have eagle eyes, managed to see how many drawing requests are being made, now you need to count pixel.

If you don't believe in the video, just download the project and compile it, you don't have to pay. ok?
 
noname is pulled more to the left and 1.0 to the right, it won't make any difference, moreover , 1.0 is processing more objects, like creatures in the right corner and effects.
Bullshit.
1593880367928.png
If you don't believe in the video, just download the project and compile it, you don't have to pay. ok?
What now? No one is arguing that what you did made OTC faster, we are arguing about this thread and this nonsense comparison. Thread like this should be made after 1-2 months, not 2 weeks.
 
Bullshit.
View attachment 47181

What now? No one is arguing that what you did made OTC faster, we are arguing about this thread and this nonsense comparison. Thread like this should be made after 1-2 months, not 2 weeks.

I was referring to my video, a question, why are you so concerned about that, 1.0 has become a threat? Will your commission decrease?

Didn't even want to talk about it, but your boss came up saying shit, i'm almost deepen into Opengl just to end this monopoly.
 
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I was referring to my video, a question, why are you so concerned about that, 1.0 has become a threat? Will your commission decrease?
I don't know if your google translator messed up or what just happened but I'll play along... How would 1.0 be a threat? How can a tool that is the same as the other but with a different approach, be a threat to anything?
 
gee, you have eagle eyes, managed to see how many drawing requests are being made, now you need to count pixel.

If you don't believe in the video, just download the project and compile it, you don't have to pay. ok?
I need to believe on something? I thought the comparison was stating facts. I think you are missing my point. My point is that Night Wolf once again is doing nothing for the sake of this community when wasting effort and time to bash kondra with bullshit. He clearly wanted to make fun of a guy that spent months to make something, when comparing results with a guy spent 2 week of his free time to do better, but failed misarable with a half-assed comparison that actually serves for nothing, as the parameters where too different. Once again a thread with him combating kondra, asking community to deliever more and no link of a github page with code from himself.

He is too hurt by someone making money from his own work, because opensource. He should read the MIT License. Next time he could approach it with "another guy is tackling OTC performing issues and showing great progress, community might have an open source alternative to OTCV8 soon. Let's look the comparison and what is ahead of this project", and worry by what he can do instead of bashing and fighting.
 
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I don't know if your google translator messed up or what just happened but I'll play along... How would 1.0 be a threat? How can a tool that is the same as the other but with a different approach, be a threat to anything?

Don't speak ill of my google translator. :p

Dude, relax 'noname' is superior there is no denying it, from what I understand, the purpose of this topic was just to call the community to help.
 
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