OTClient Graphics Discussion (Anyone out there more knowledgeable than me?)

[totolol123]

Me too, any progress @Fenrisus

 

[Milice]

 

[Arashel]

Drawing a huge amount of tiles
Drawing a lot of 2D objects is not a problem with recent graphics cards, however you always have to keep old machines with poor performance in mind. Just because recent cards can handle huge amount of drawing is not an excuse for drawing what you don't need. Much of graphics optimizations lies in throwing away what you can't see, then on what you can see you avoid recalculating and use caches if possible.

If you keep older machines is mind, then You can just stop developing OTClient and find new hobby ASAP.
OTClient NEEDS some kind of graphical progress and evolution with either generating more visible titles or switching to 64x64 sprites. The entire game industry market is progressing while Tibia is dying. If you will stick with old style then You'll end up like Gothic-Online project, with barely ~10 active users who just jerking each other off with their “devotion” to Gothic and one actual guy who still keeps that "development" alive, just beacuse force of habit, since it's not worth putting into CV.
Like I said somewhere else, OTClient with slightly better(64x64+) 2D graphics has the potential of becoming relatively known standalone Tibia-inspired project and “RPG-maker”. Display’s resolutions are getting bigger and amount of people who tolerate “stretched” gamed window is getting smaller.

 

[Sportacus]

If you keep older machines is mind, then You can just stop developing OTClient and find new hobby ASAP.
OTClient NEEDS some kind of graphical progress and evolution with either generating more visible titles or switching to 64x64 sprites. The entire game industry market is progressing while Tibia is dying. If you will stick with old style then You'll end up like Gothic-Online project, with barely ~10 active users who just jerking each other off with their “devotion” to Gothic and one actual guy who still keeps that "development" alive, just beacuse force of habit, since it's not worth putting into CV.
Like I said somewhere else, OTClient with slightly better(64x64+) 2D graphics has the potential of becoming relatively known standalone Tibia-inspired project and “RPG-maker”. Display’s resolutions are getting bigger and amount of people who tolerate “stretched” gamed window is getting smaller.

This isn't a problem of people not upgrading their systems, but a problem of the framework for the graphics was poorly implemented and poorly optimized.

This problem would only be compounded even more when adding a bigger view range, or making 64x64 graphics.

People are able to get 60 fps in much more graphical demanding games, but only get under 30 on the OTC. This proves that the problem lays in the OTC, and not from the machines running it.

However, some people play the OTC with such powerful machines that it covers up for the poor performance of the OTC with just pure power. But, on lesser machines they are able to notice the problems because they can't over compensate with pure power. So it is kind of a good thing that the issues were found, so it doesn't compound to be an even bigger problem when adding in various systems to improve the graphics of the game.

 

[strutZ]

Figured i give this a little nudge Are people not looking at this at the moment because of Christmas?

 

[Danger II]

Any new informations yet?

 

[conde2]

They probably have done it, but i don't think they will share it.


From necronia website which tarjei does work on.

We will push out a new version of the client that will contain an improved version of the light system, efficiently increasing the client's performance for all lower-end PC users and fixing lag issues in heavily illuminated areas.

 

[whiteblXK]

So we need to pay them to share it

 

[totolol123]

They probably have done it, but i don't think they will share it.


From necronia website which tarjei does work on.

Nowdays no one want share anything with community and this is why we are decreasing instead of growing. What the point of having a fucking boss client if theres no one to play it? Fuck.

 

[StreamSide]

Nowdays no one want share anything with community and this is why we are decreasing instead of growing. What the point of having a fucking boss client if theres no one to play it? Fuck.

cus there are just a few players who always contribute, u mad about it? start posting your shits so

 

[Shadowsong]

So we need to pay them to share it

Nowdays no one want share anything with community and this is why we are decreasing instead of growing. What the point of having a fucking boss client if theres no one to play it? Fuck.

Why are you guys jumping to such ridiculous conclusions?
Did someone from our team release information saying that you will need to pay for it?

Why do you people have to have such a bitter outlook on things? Tarjei is not an asshole to be posting here for several pages about how he's making progress, then later decide to walk away with it and not share.
Things have simply stalled a bit due to the holidays, new year, and his work, but he's been adding the finishing touches and now it needs to go through some more testing before we are certain that the results are sufficient.
After that, he'll probably release the code. Any improvement is better than none.

And if you wonder why nobody is sharing is stuff, it's because it's the same 10% people that are always sharing - and the other 90% are vultures with open mouths, standing below and cawing for more every day without giving anything in return. Maybe if more people contributed, everyone in the collective would be more inspired to share.

 

[totolol123]

Why are you guys jumping to such ridiculous conclusions?
Did someone from our team release information saying that you will need to pay for it?

Why do you people have to have such a bitter outlook on things? Tarjei is not an asshole to be posting here for several pages about how he's making progress, then later decide to walk away with it and not share.
Things have simply stalled a bit due to the holidays, new year, and his work, but he's been adding the finishing touches and now it needs to go through some more testing before we are certain that the results are sufficient.
After that, he'll probably release the code. Any improvement is better than none.

And if you wonder why nobody is sharing is stuff, it's because it's the same 10% people that are always sharing - and the other 90% are vultures with open mouths, standing below and cawing for more every day without giving anything in return. Maybe if more people contributed, everyone in the collective would be more inspired to share.

Sorry about being rude but this is how things are. True that that only a small percent of ppl share things, but this is because that higher amount of ppl only know how do things in Lua and are not a C++ expert.
If everyone that ever made changes to OTC (im not talking about custom changes but client perfomance improvement) shared their work with community maybe we will have more ppl willing to do things because we will have a proper way of starting it.
Im not talking to you guys share your game or anything related, just a simple thing that will not affect your game in any way and will help a lot of ppl to have fun using this client.

 

[StreamSide]

Sorry about being rude but this is how things are. True that that only a small percent of ppl share things, but this is because that higher amount of ppl only know how do things in Lua and are not a C++ expert.
If everyone that ever made changes to OTC (im not talking about custom changes but client perfomance improvement) shared their work with community maybe we will have more ppl willing to do things because we will have a proper way of starting it.
Im not talking to you guys share your game or anything related, just a simple thing that will not affect your game in any way and will help a lot of ppl to have fun using this client.

so I have to see your work to start working on mine? thats bullshit...

 

[Jacobs]

If everyone that made changes to OTC would share it, then everyone would use it.
Custom servers want people playing, as we do, and as everyone does. Having a unique client with features not available to others, with great performance is what makes @Shadowsong 's Necronia so special, not talking their game content now. That's even better.

Sharing does affect player counts, which affects total income > paying server rent/developers/graphics artists/...


"Hey dude can you share that thing you spent your whole month of free time working on for free?"

 

[totolol123]

so I have to see your work to start working on mine? thats bullshit...

I never said that. Said that if we have a good client to play with maybe more ppl that use default client start using it, plus more content to be shared.

 

[totolol123]

If everyone that made changes to OTC would share it, then everyone would use it.
Custom servers want people playing, as we do, and as everyone does. Having a unique client with features not available to others, with great performance is what makes @Shadowsong 's Necronia so special, not talking their game content now. That's even better.

Sharing does affect player counts, which affects total income > paying server rent/developers/graphics artists/...


"Hey dude can you share that thing you spent your whole month of free time working on for free?"

Thats totally bullshit men. That client is made by @edubart and he released it for free, if everyone think like that why are we here? why are we using tfs?
I can totally agree with keeping custom things private, but about not sharing perfomance improvement this is only selfishness on my view.

 

[Lelodro]

Here everyone is free to upload what they want, many want that only for their own benefit £€£€$$
That is why nobody helps anymore, for everything they have a price.. e.e

 

[Flatlander]

No one has optimized the OTClient yet.

No one is holding a super-awesome version of the OTClient that runs at 60 FPS on a potato computer.
Even people who have the knowledge to work on it, usually decide to work on other projects, rather than work on the OTClient. (In my experience)

Fixing the OTClient will take a LOT of work, and if anyone ever does do it, I will pay them to release it.

 

[Shadowsong]

Sorry about being rude but this is how things are. True that that only a small percent of ppl share things, but this is because that higher amount of ppl only know how do things in Lua and are not a C++ expert.
If everyone that ever made changes to OTC (im not talking about custom changes but client perfomance improvement) shared their work with community maybe we will have more ppl willing to do things because we will have a proper way of starting it.
Im not talking to you guys share your game or anything related, just a simple thing that will not affect your game in any way and will help a lot of ppl to have fun using this client.

It's okay, I just didn't like that you guys jumped at our project as if we're obliged to do something, or even worse, called us out for wanting money for it even though nobody ever said such a thing.
I did speak to @tarjei already and he said he will share his work when it's ready, as he implied earlier. Just to be clear. And this is for the same reasons that you listed in your posts above.
I can't say it will be the best possible optimization ever, but from what I've witnessed so far, it's going in a nice direction.


I don't know the technical details behind the changes as I am not proficient in that area of programming, so either wait for him to post about it, someone else to post their work, or do something about it personally, there is no fourth option unfortunately.

No one has optimized the OTClient yet.

No one is holding a super-awesome version of the OTClient that runs at 60 FPS on a potato computer.
Even people who have the knowledge to work on it, usually decide to work on other projects, rather than work on the OTClient. (In my experience)

Fixing the OTClient will take a LOT of work, and if anyone ever does do it, I will pay them to release it.

Look up Medivia Online if you're interested in an optimized client.

 

[tarjei]

Well I would lovely share some experience with you guys how they look from my perspective. First of all as Flatlander already stated making things done require immense amount of work. Before I start I wanted to thank @edubart for some tips in regards to performance it was instructive I must say.

As you know I was trying to optimise OTC for a while now. I added opengl3 support and I was messing with batch drawing game screen. After a long time of messing around it turned out there is none improvement, when I turned out light system on old client. Well I was taking into account that what I was doing was weighted with large risk of failure. And to be honest when I realized that there is no point in maintaining this branch, maybe except adding OpenGL 3.0 support, and GLFW window framework, I was disappointed and I stopped even bothering about that.

Recently I decided to improve light drawing to use the same batching I was experimenting with drawing entire game scene, and it gave some fps improvement. However I have very limited amount of time nowadays to push those commits to main repo. Eventualy I will dedicate a day or two to release it dont worry

But that's not some mind breaking patch to scrub around gentlemen P