[USA][7.4] Tibiara | Real Engine 7.4 | 1x Long Term | Hardcore | Smooth Client | 14th March

[kay]

Did you actually read what I responded to? Or are you just running on repeat at the moment?

He asked why we expected something to differ if it was cipsoft code and I simply explained that the ORIGINAL REQUEST which he qouted was for 7.4 details that we might have overlooked or didn't know about. I'm not arguing with you about us being perfect or not, obviously we've had our issues.

But that's what I mean, you didn't expect anything else to differ from the cipsoft engine, because Ezzz told you he had "100% cip code". So, how did those bugs appear there after all? They are not related to version difference, are they?

You already made your point man let it go now

Why? Ezzz likes to comment on my work so much (despite using it), but I cannot comment on his? You all like pointing out all the crucial mechanics that we are allegedly missing, but I am not allowed to do the same?

 

[Rawesh]

But that's what I mean, you didn't expect anything else to differ from the cipsoft engine, because Ezzz told you he had "100% cip code". So, how did those bugs appear there?

And I've already said back then when we were talking the first time (comment got deleted) that it was perhaps a mistake from us to be so sure and that we have different approaches but we are humans are we not?

We've been transparent to our players since then that we are fixing any issues that may occur and thats the best we can do.

But the problem is right now that you keep repeating the same thing over and over again for what purpose? Haven't you made your point over the past 4 posts? Profesorek already said almost exactly the same things you've been saying now but you still have to come here and repeat.

Can you let it go now or do you still wanna continue?

 

[kay]

And I've already said back then when we were talking the first time that it was perhaps a mistake from us to be so sure but we are humans are we not?

We've been transparent to our players since then that we are fixing any issues that may occur and thats the best we can do.

You, as Rawesh, or you as a team? Ezzz just said, once again, that this server is not 'replication' of any kind, but the real thing. So I'm asking how did those bugs from your changelog appear in "the real thing"?
You also take the liberty to point out what I am missing, comment on our work, constantly compare yourself to Tibiantis, claim that you're "more accurate", even copy my gifs and whatnot, but I am not even allowed to say a word?

 

[Rawesh]

You, as Rawesh, or you as a team?

I know what you're getting at and well to be fair to @Ezzz I believe he stopped saying its "100% cipsoft code" since a while back when he understood the different approaches. He is just stating or atleast trying to state that the code we use is from infact RE code from the binary. Perhaps there was a better way to formally communicate but hes not perfect by any means, no one is, but he is getting better at commucating. He is just very proud of his work (and he should be it's an amazing feat)

Can we now all just move on with our lives this is silly at this point


Edit: yes I know he keeps saying something that is interpreted incorrectly perhaps, what my point however is that you've already made your argument about it but you keep going on about it.


Anway I'm done arguing now.

 

[Adposatnr]

Just curious, how much should cyclops hit approximately compared to on Tibiara?
To be clear I haven't tried Tibiara, I'm just curious what kind of margins we believe they got this wrong.

Spoiler

After some tests on my own server, using Kay's own posted damage formulas, here's the actual results: if you take much less than 30 damage/min as a knight with 60 shielding and p set dwarven shield, then it's probably inaccurate. Which is an average of 1 damage every attack (2 seconds).
If in doubt I can also test on local cip server, in case somehow this is a bug with my server, but it shouldn't be.

for exact numbers you should have run tests HOWEVER when you lure cyclop on 42 shielding 20lvl paladin on a fresh server (best case scenario is plate set leather boots and scarf but probably it will be worse like brass legs scale armor and soldier helmet) and that rp tank that cyclop on full defence with ease (not even sparks just puffs from defence block) for over minute geting whopping 7 damage from one hit then something is off


i was able with trash gear and 37 sword fighting two handed sword full defence tank valkyrie forever same goes for two orc warriors they couldnt blood hit me even once literally immortal not even spark defence alone let me tank their entire dmg they should sometimes spark me (armor hit) due to defence value rolling 1 (quite rare but still) maybe i was lucky for few minutes? who knows



also to sustain 2 cyclops hitting you on royal paladin with exura vita bare minimum is vampire shield and p set + 30lvl shielding atleast 60 to not get unlucky rolls due to low hp you can then train with small stones (7.6+ tho)

 

[kay]

I know what you're getting at and well to be fair to @Ezzz I believe he stopped saying its "100% cipsoft code" since a while

No, he never corrected himself and he's still openly suggesting that. He just again said that "it's not replication". Then what is it?

You're decompiling cip engine and rewriting all the code, which means that you're trying to replicate it. Replicate, recreate, mimic, make a clone that will work the same way, whatever.

It can be pretty close, but it won't ever be "the real thing" or "cip code". It will be merely your interpretation of it, which will obviously include many inaccuracies and mistakes. There's no point to argue about that, the bugs and crashes that you've had since the launch already prove it.

Again, it's not anything bad to say! Replicating the whole cip engine is a huge challenge and shitload of work, no one denies that. That's why it's very much understandable that there will be issues and mistakes, it's unavoidable.

But as long as Ezzz keeps arguing that it's "the real thing, not replication", he loses the people's understanding for those issues. They were never present in "the real thing", so why should anyone accept them here? In "replication" attempt - sure, but in "the real thing"? He only gives people an argument to make fun of a project that could actually be considered great work otherwise.

 

[Ezzz]

You, as Rawesh, or you as a team? Ezzz just said, once again, that this server is not 'replication' of any kind, but the real thing. So I'm asking how did those bugs from your changelog appear in "the real thing"?

Kay, you keep twisting my words to fit your narrative, so let me clarify once again. I never said I had the original compiled CIP code in my hands. What I’ve consistently said is that I reverse-engineered the entire engine from scratch, rather than using a pre-existing leaked binary like others have. That means functionally, it operates as close to the original as possible because it’s based on a full reconstruction of the actual mechanics—not just guesswork, patches, or assumptions.

You’re fixated on the word “replication” as if I took a shortcut and blindly copied something. But reverse engineering is a different level of work entirely. It means reconstructing the underlying systems, logic, and behaviors from the ground up, using actual data and structure rather than just mimicking behavior superficially. Yes, there will be minor issues—just like any complex software, including the “real thing” you keep talking about. Every game, every engine, even the original CIP engine had and has bugs.

The real irony here is that you acknowledge the effort it takes, yet you still insist on downplaying it. If your only argument is “it’s not the real thing,” then by that logic, any rewritten software, including emulators, reimplementations, and even official remasters, are all worthless because they aren’t the first compiled binary. That’s just a weak argument.

So, if you want to have a real discussion, drop the constant misrepresentation of what I’m saying. Otherwise, it’s clear you’re just here to stir things up instead of actually engaging with the technical work being done.

 

[Source]

for exact numbers you should have run tests HOWEVER when you lure cyclop on 42 shielding 20lvl paladin on a fresh server (best case scenario is plate set leather boots and scarf but probably it will be worse like brass legs scale armor and soldier helmet) and that rp tank that cyclop on full defence with ease (not even sparks just puffs from defence block) for over minute geting whopping 7 damage from one hit then something is off

Well I did. You can see them in my previous post by clicking the show spoilers button.
The results were that the accurate damage for a cyclops is an average 30 damage/min or 1 damage per attack vs knight with 60 shielding p set dwarven shield full def.
But there were several minutes where I was not hit at all, or was hit 5 one minute, and was hit 44 + 30 + 30 another minute.
So it varies obviously, because of the RNG on both ends, both the cyclops' attacks are RNG, defense formula, and iirc armor formula is based on RNG (I may be misremembering the last part, but the first parts are true).

i was able with trash gear and 37 sword fighting two handed sword full defence tank valkyrie forever same goes for two orc warriors they couldnt blood hit me even once literally immortal not even spark defence alone let me tank their entire dmg they should sometimes spark me (armor hit) due to defence value rolling 1 (quite rare but still) maybe i was lucky for few minutes? who knows

Well, I'm not going to run multiple tests for different monsters, I'm not that curious. So I'll just say it's possible it's a bug, it's possible it's not.
You could be right, but you could also be wrong, we won't really know until later because your story is a little vague.

also to sustain 2 cyclops hitting you on royal paladin with exura vita bare minimum is vampire shield and p set + 30lvl shielding atleast 60 to not get unlucky rolls due to low hp you can then train with small stones (7.6+ tho)

I outhealed 1 cyclops on lvl 22 knight on basically cip server just using exura (average like ~15 healing per 25 mana on) with 60 shielding p set. exura vita should be 150+ iirc for 80 mana, that's about 3x more mana efficient, so you won't need p set vamp shield and 60 shielding unless you're afk, but if you afk for 15min you're probably going to die even if you have full rare set hehe.
So I could be wrong, but I don't quite think your story is accurate, you won't need more than ~50 shielding dwarven shield at level 30 with 2 cycs and exura vita I think, even as a paladin, which is just my estimate, because I'm not going to run more tests just to make a point in a server that I've never played on's thread.

Just wanted to make a point, that when we make claims like these that are mathematical and complicated, we need to be precise.

Good luck on everyone's projects, and I hope all the players' have fun playing or not playing this server, it's all up to you whether you want to or not.

 

[kay]

Kay, you keep twisting my words to fit your narrative, so let me clarify once again.

I did not twist or misinterpret anything, don't try to put the blame on someone else for your own words. You consciously tried to trick people into thinking that yourself, and you're the one trying to twist it now, because it didn't work well for you.

It's too bad that most of the posts are deleted, because there would be some funny quotes now. You many times argued that it was "100% cip code", "the real thing", "cipsoft engine", "100% perfect and accurate". There was never any misinterpretation from my side, you said it literally and repeated it over and over.

It took some posts, but your co-workers eventually realized that and admitted to have put it wrong and misleading. You had all the chance to correct yourself as well, which would be the end of this topic. But instead you chose to continue arguing that it was absolutely "100% cip code", and nothing else. And you started throwing shit at everyone who rightfully questioned that, which is exactly the reason why you had people mocking you for every minor bug in return.

yet you still insist on downplaying it

Once again, show me ONE quote where I downplayed this work. You shamelessly did that to mine, but I NEVER EVER downplayed this project. Contrary, I always addresed what huge challenge and effort it must be.

 

[Adposatnr]

I outhealed 1 cyclops on lvl 22 knight on basically cip server just using exura (average like ~15 healing per 25 mana on) with 60 shielding p set. exura vita should be 150+ iirc for 80 mana, that's about 3x more mana efficient, so you won't need p set vamp shield and 60 shielding unless you're afk, but if you afk for 15min you're probably going to die even if you have full rare set hehe.
So I could be wrong, but I don't quite think your story is accurate, you won't need more than ~50 shielding dwarven shield at level 30 with 2 cycs and exura vita I think, even as a paladin, which is just my estimate, because I'm not going to run more tests just to make a point in a server that I've never played on's thread.

you will definitely need v shield and something around 60 shielding for two cycs 30lvl doesnt have that huge hp pool and you want to train with them using small stones so afking for around 3 minutes

Well I did. You can see them in my previous post by clicking the show spoilers button.
The results were that the accurate damage for a cyclops is an average 30 damage/min or 1 damage per attack vs knight with 60 shielding p set dwarven shield full def.
But there were several minutes where I was not hit at all, or was hit 5 one minute, and was hit 44 + 30 + 30 another minute.
So it varies obviously, because of the RNG on both ends, both the cyclops' attacks are RNG, defense formula, and iirc armor formula is based on RNG (I may be misremembering the last part, but the first parts are true).

weird thing for me was not getting sparks hits with as low as 42 shielding and dwarven shield for almost 40 hits thats a lot i've been standing in trap wasting dude with two orc warriors (and tanking one myself) with two handed sword and 37 sword fighting

same goes for fighting knight vs druid or knight vs knight if one using full defence i didnt run long tests tho



also if from your math its 30 dmg per minute for 1 cyclop then training with two (obviously u want to train shielding dont you?) is 60 dmg per minute thats over 480 dmg not even close to sustain exura vita ek is even worse when i trained with cyclops on rl tibia back then i needed 85 skills and really good set but i dont remember if i was using full defence or balance as knight since its not easy to break cyclops defence every 10 turns with weak weapon cyclops were bad to train for knight anyway i've using them to skill on paladin tho but again that was more like 7.6-8.0 not 7.4

 

[Ezzz]

I did not misinterpret anything, don't try to put the blame on someone else for your own words. You consciously tried to trick people into thinking that yourself, and you're the one trying to twist it now, because it didn't work well for you as you were exposed.

Kay, you’re still running in circles with the same tired argument, acting as if repeating it enough times will make it true. Let’s break it down once again:

1. Intentional Deception? – That’s a reach. From the beginning, I made it clear that I reverse-engineered the CIP engine from the ground up. If people misunderstood that as me having the original compiled code, that’s on interpretation, not deception. If I wanted to “trick” people, why would I openly discuss the entire reverse-engineering process? That would make zero sense.

2. Deleted Posts Argument – Convenient. You claim there are “funny quotes” that somehow prove your point, but conveniently, they’re all deleted. Meanwhile, every post that still exists supports the fact that I always talked about reverse-engineering, not copy-pasting a leak.

3. “100% CIP Code” and Accuracy Claims – Yes, I said that, and I stand by it in the context of functionality. When you completely reverse-engineer a system, you can achieve 100% accuracy in behavior, mechanics, and execution—even if it’s technically new code. That’s how software restoration and preservation work. If you think otherwise, then I assume you believe every software reimplementation in history is a failure?

4. Fixing Bugs in “CIP Engine” – This was always meant as fixing behavior based on how the original engine works, not that I had direct access to the original source. And if you’re arguing that the original engine never had bugs, then you’re either uninformed or dishonest. Every engine has bugs. Fixing them doesn’t mean I have the source code, it means I understand the logic well enough to identify and correct issues.

5. Shifting Blame – You’re the one twisting words, misrepresenting what I said, and now pretending that my stance has somehow changed. It hasn’t. Reverse-engineering isn’t “replicating with inaccuracies,” it’s reconstructing a system to function identically. That’s the whole point of the effort, and if you understood what goes into that, you’d know the difference.

At the end of the day, you’re just arguing semantics while ignoring the actual work that went into this. If you want to have a real discussion, focus on technical points instead of playing word games. Otherwise, this is just another attempt to stir up drama instead of contributing anything meaningful.

 

[kay]

3. “100% CIP Code” and Accuracy Claims – Yes, I said that, and I stand by it in the context of functionality. When you completely reverse-engineer a system, you can achieve 100% accuracy in behavior, mechanics, and execution—even if it’s technically new code.

And here you are doing it yet again. So let me ask again too, if you achieved "100% cip code", where did those bugs and all the others come from? \/

So the yellow skull bug was due to version difference? Or the parcel bug? Or double field damage? Or summons not disappearing, and UHs being used through walls?

So far, all the bugs that you've had after the release were only result of inaccurate mimicking/replicating/recreating of cip engine. Nothing related to version difference.
How come, if - according to Ezzz - you had "100% cip code, not replication"?

Recreating the whole cip server is a huge challenge, everyone with two brain cells can realize that and people would really understand that some bugs might occur, even crashes. But it's not the bugs that are your problem. It's that one clown in your team who's been telling everyone whoppers for years.

 

[Adposatnr]

And here you are doing it yet again. So let me ask again too, where did those bugs and all the others come from? \/

you forgot about mlv bug nobody bothered to create character and leave rook/play for few hours before launch even tho they have 3 staff members

even tho the same bug happened multiple times over years on servers ezzz was working on also its most common bug and easy to notice bug when you downgrade from 7.6/7.7 to 7.4

 

[Ezzz]

And here you are doing it yet again. So let me ask again too, where did those bugs and all the others come from? \/

Kay, you’re still dodging the real discussion and fixating on semantics. Bugs happen in every software, even in the original CIP engine—acting like they don’t is just ridiculous. Reverse-engineering aims for identical functionality, and if minor issues arise, they get fixed. That doesn’t suddenly make it “just a bad replication.”

You’re not here for a real discussion—you just want to take cheap shots. And throwing around insults like “one clown in your team” only proves that you’re more interested in drama than technical accuracy. If you actually had a valid point, you wouldn’t need to resort to that.

 

[kay]

Kay, you’re still dodging the real discussion and fixating on semantics. Bugs happen in every software, even in the original CIP engine—acting like they don’t is just ridiculous. Reverse-engineering aims for identical functionality, and if minor issues arise, they get fixed. That doesn’t suddenly make it “just a bad replication.”

I'm not dodging anything, just commenting on the relevant part. The other points were never even in question, everyone here knows what reverse engineering is. You just added all that to look more 'professional' and to blur the context.

We are discussing the fact that you falsely claim to have reverse engineered and recreated cip engine "100% accurately", to the extent that you even argue it should be now referred to as "100% cip code" and not "replication" anymore. But you clearly haven't done that, and all the bugs you're having in Tibiara prove it.

Sorry, but you can't just say: "it's 100% accurate, because all the things that are inaccurate are just bugs, and bugs exist in every software, so yea 100% accurate confirmed!". It's illogical. If you had done it 100% accurately as you claim, there would've been no bugs other than those that maybe existed in the original code. Even if we don't take it so literally, with all those things that have already been found wrong (plus the crashes), you can't realistically say that you were "close to 100% cip code", let alone argue it's "100% cip code". You either can't realize that cause you desperately want to believe your work is so perfect, or you are fully aware but for some reason decided to keep telling whoppers no matter what.

And for the tenth time, I never said that your work was bad! I many times stated that bugs, mistakes, crashes, inaccuracies, and all the other issues are totally understandable in what you're doing. Not because of you, but for anyone who would be doing the same, because it's just unavoidable in that kind of work! Which is exactly why people shouldn't be mocking you for those problems, but also why you shouldn't argue so hard that you have done it "100% accurately". No, you haven't and you're far from that, but it's really not the quality of your work that's the problem here, but only your attitude.

You’re not here for a real discussion—you just want to take cheap shots. And throwing around insults like “one clown in your team” only proves that you’re more interested in drama than technical accuracy. If you actually had a valid point, you wouldn’t need to resort to that.

All my prior posts, those deleted and those not, were strictly technical and constructive, until you decided to throw argumenta ad personam for no reason. But you're right, I should've ignored that and not responded the same way.

you forgot about mlv bug nobody bothered to create character and leave rook/play for few hours before launch even tho they have 3 staff members

even tho the same bug happened multiple times over years on servers ezzz was working on also its most common bug and easy to notice bug when you downgrade from 7.6/7.7 to 7.4

The mlvl bug was just version difference though, they made it like 7.7 and didn't change to 7.4. Regardless of how trivial mistake that may be, they never disregarded the possibility that they might have overlooked something in terms of the 7.4 mechanics/downgrade (like Rawesh said). But all the other bugs resulted only from inaccurate/faulty replication of the cip code - something that Ezzz constantly argues to have done "100% accurately".

 

[danilopucci]

Hey, @Ezzz, despite of all the polemics about the RE code, I have tech questions here:

I saw some posts about vertically scaling, was this due the gameserver performance or some other problem? I read that and I was just wondering how is the performance of this server, just because cipsoft used to run it with 2006 technology and I suppose that runnning a code that is really close to theirs should be a easy task for nowadays servers!

Did you use Postgres database, like cipsoft? or kept mysql?
Did you also recriate their RPC database application? (I forgot the name, it was something-manager that is used to run on leaked binary)

By the way, congrats on your work, I heard about this project a couple of months ago, glad to see it turned into an online server now!

keep the work!!

 

[Source]

also if from your math its 30 dmg per minute for 1 cyclop then training with two (obviously u want to train shielding dont you?) is 60 dmg per minute thats over 480 dmg not even close to sustain exura vita ek is even worse when i trained with cyclops on rl tibia back then i needed 85 skills and really good set but i dont remember if i was using full defence or balance as knight since its not easy to break cyclops defence every 10 turns with weak weapon cyclops were bad to train for knight anyway i've using them to skill on paladin tho but again that was more like 7.6-8.0 not 7.4

I'm not really sure exactly what you're saying here, but I assume you're calculating the time it takes for you to regen 80 mana with some of your numbers here, and I'm not gonna double check them.

One thing I did in fact not consider in my calculation is that I was testing this on 7.7 server (and I assumed 80 mana for vita still, though it might be 160 on 7.7 iirc?), so one or two minor mistakes on my part on assessing your claim about what eq and skills needed to train with 2 cycs on 7.4.
Iirc mana regen is 4x slower on 7.4.

So yes, on a 7.4 server your assessment of skills and eq needed to train with 2 cycs might be accurate, except that I don't think you can safely afk for 3 min.

Nevertheless the damage should still be an average of 30 dmg/min per cyclops, meaning that if you take much less damage over say 10+ minutes in close contact with cyclops all this time, this might be a bug, otherwise it might (probably) not be if the damage adds up to approximately an average of 30/min at this skill and eq.

As for the claim that you need 85/85 and possibly balanced stance to kill cycs, this is just false, you might have been impatient and wanted to kill cycs faster, that's fair, but I literally killed the cyc in 5-10 min time on full def with ca. 60/60 and battle hammer.
If you were hunting though, it makes sense, although I would honestly be using full attack if hunting, but maybe that's just me.

Enough banter from me, time to get back to coding. Cheers.

 

[Adposatnr]

I'm not really sure exactly what you're saying here, but I assume you're calculating the time it takes for you to regen 80 mana with some of your numbers here, and I'm not gonna double check them.

One thing I did in fact not consider in my calculation is that I was testing this on 7.7 server (and I assumed 80 mana for vita still, though it might be 160 on 7.7 iirc?), so one or two minor mistakes on my part on assessing your claim about what eq and skills needed to train with 2 cycs on 7.4.
Iirc mana regen is 4x slower on 7.4.

So yes, on a 7.4 server your assessment of skills and eq needed to train with 2 cycs might be accurate, except that I don't think you can safely afk for 3 min.

Nevertheless the damage should still be an average of 30 dmg/min per cyclops, meaning that if you take much less damage over say 10+ minutes in close contact with cyclops all this time, this might be a bug, otherwise it might (probably) not be if the damage adds up to approximately an average of 30/min at this skill and eq.

As for the claim that you need 85/85 and possibly balanced stance to kill cycs, this is just false, you might have been impatient and wanted to kill cycs faster, that's fair, but I literally killed the cyc in 5-10 min time on full def with ca. 60/60 and battle hammer.
If you were hunting though, it makes sense, although I would honestly be using full attack if hunting, but maybe that's just me.

Enough banter from me, time to get back to coding. Cheers.

i mean i had no chance to train like that on real tibia 7.4 (but i had chance on 7.6-7.9 tho) and 80 mana is obviously needed to cast exura vita on 7.4 even with boosted regen from 7.6+ it was still hard to train with them and sustain on longer session


and 60 dmg per minute is too much to sustain it with promoted royal paladin if you include both mana regen hp regen and exura vita you need 8 minutes to get mana for exura vita which will heal you on avg for 250 and hp regen is something around 80 you are missing 150 hp per minute that doesnt even include overhealing sometimes cuz u dont want to leave ur character afk for minute or two with less than 200hp ofc on 7.4
on 7.7 tho you theoretically can sustain exura vita due to better regen but its nowhere close to comfortable hunting since you definitely dont want to leave your character with such setup on less than 250 hp for minute or two afk you will simply die at some point unless you will be lucky and train a bit more before rolling unlucky streak thats why i suggest people getting atleast 60 shielding and vampire shield (can be other obviously but for paladin u need cap)


also 35 ELITE knight with 4mlv got ~31 hp regen per minute with food+exura on 7.6+ version im curious how you want to sustain two cycs



knight got much worse sustain and are you really sure that with battle hammer and 60/60 skill you deal blood hit every 10 turns on full defence? thats really important in perfect setups thats why you want to use balanced fighting

difference between me and you is that i've been actively playing since long time and i've tested many scenarios of lvling up fresh characters, skilling them mainly knights sometimes paladins even tho my experience might be slighty altered by many shitty servers with incorrect values i still remember how i've been lvling or skilling my chars on rl tibia

 

[insomniatv]

I would like to report an issue I encountered today during the property auction. Unfortunately, due to a rollback, I lost the auction, which was quite frustrating. Additionally, today I faced another situation where another participant placed a higher offer without having the required deposit funds, causing me to lose the auction once again.


I kindly ask for assistance in this matter, as these situations have been very frustrating for me. I appreciate your quick intervention and support.

 

[Ezzz]

I would like to report an issue I encountered today during the property auction. Unfortunately, due to a rollback, I lost the auction, which was quite frustrating. Additionally, today I faced another situation where another participant placed a higher offer without having the required deposit funds, causing me to lose the auction once again.


I kindly ask for assistance in this matter, as these situations have been very frustrating for me. I appreciate your quick intervention and support.

Hello! We haven’t had rollbacks today.

If someone overbids you and doesn’t have enough money to pay the auction they will be unable to bid again for 7 days, if it was to occur again, they will be banned from playing.

You can contact us on discord for these questions and support in general.