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Vocation changes

Ingens

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Heya! I study game design and thus have a great interest in new ideas and more balance, interesting game play. I'd like to know what you, as the community think of my ideas that I might use in a future server. Thank you!

If you're going to leave feedback, please include a logical reasoning in your post and be ready to be counter-argued as this is a discussion thread after all. I want us to argue for our views here.


Note:

This is for an old school tibia server, so I am looking for feedback only from such players. As for 7.4 or potentially 7.72


These changes could either be used on a real map (nothing else changed than what is stated below) or a custom map with custom features but normal old school vocation except for these changes.


Vocation changes including spells, rune changes and general stats:


Poison storm is very rarely used in tactical strategies regarding pvp. Therefore the spell has been boosted to add a poison tick for 40 damage every 2 seconds for 20 seconds.

Wild Growth has also been changed in a way that it has a 45 second longer duration than magic wall (it's even longer on normal old schools I believe), but if machete has been used on the tree, the duration is decreased by 30 seconds. This is to remove the ability to just cut down a wild growth with a simple machete and thus not making this spell rather useless against experienced players.

Explosion rune has been hosted in a way that is deals 40-70% relative to sudden death damage, with an average hit of 50% of sd. From now on, only druids can use explosion runes, but they cannot use SD anymore. However they heal 25% more with both exura and exura gran. The mana amount to make explosion will also be increased to 250 from 180.

To compensate (and slightly boost) knights for not being able to use explosion anymore, their attack speed has now been increased by 15%.

Paralyze use and mana to make the rune have been lowered to 600 mana from 900.
Druids also have a new rune they can use called "Great Soulfire". It burns the (single target) for 60 seconds with a tick damage of (50% heavy magic missile damage) every second. This rune will require 500 mana to use, and 220 to make.


What will these changes do?

They will change druids rather much, to make them into a more supportive role, with DOTs (tick damage) and explosive damage (aoe) as main damage output. This will promote druids to focus more on support (due to ticks only having to be activated once in period). Aka exura sio, spamming magic walls, exevo grav vita, mass heal, etc and leading the team. If they for some reason don't need to do that in the moment, they use their explosive runes to add further support damage. Druids will now be a support role that is fun to play, while sorcerers have the clean burst damage (insta damage ue, insta damage single target rune).

Paladins and sorcerers are already rather successful creations if you ask me. Knights needed not a huge, but just a small small bonus to their giant hammers and steady swords.

Thank you for reading, remember to leave a logical, argumentative feedback!
 
Can't call it an oldschool server if it isn't oldschool.

Changing too much.

gay server
 
Can't call it an oldschool server if it isn't oldschool.

Changing too much.

gay server

I don't think I ever wrote that the server would be announced as an exact "old school" server. My point was that these changes would be implanted in such a server. Meaning you shouldn't consider any frigo UE or whatever mounts, etc, existing when using your common sense judging yes or no on these changes. But thanks for reading anyway.

@future posts
Think before commenting please, I don't want a bunch of *above* posts being spammed here. You can criticize in a negative way, but have a logical reasoning for it so that I can understand *why* and how I can minimize the potential negative effects of these changes.
 
I don't think I ever wrote that the server would be announced as an exact "old school" server. My point was that these changes would be implanted in such a server. Meaning you shouldn't consider any frigo UE or whatever mounts, etc, existing when using your common sense judging yes or no on these changes. But thanks for reading anyway.

@future posts
Think before commenting please, I don't want a bunch of *above* posts being spammed here. You can criticize in a negative way, but have a logical reasoning for it so that I can understand *why* and how I can minimize the potential negative effects of these changes.

Okay fine by me, make a super unique fail oldschool server and waste your time.

Learn to accept proper criticism.
 
Okay fine by me, make a super unique fail oldschool server and waste your time.

Learn to accept proper criticism.

It really shows where OTland has landed when someone is trying to argue for the point of "gay server" to be proper criticism.
And this actually being rather average behavior here. Could a mod delete these latest posts by Original and me and clean the posts from stupidity? thanks.
 
I admire the way you think, shows passion that you are looking to create something unique when it comes to PvP. (May trigger other people's mind to improve pvp) However, I dislike your ideas. To add 40 extra poison damage is useless. It will indeed annoy people but will be easy removed with cure. I doubt it would improve druids nor make them use the spell more.

Wild Growth shouldn't be removeable by any kind of item.

Explosion runes only for druids.. Hmm. Would indeed simplify druids to aim, however, but to remove SD from druids is less good. How do you expect druids to be able to kill someone with a rune that has average damage of 50%? (50 % less than sd, but you mentioned they may hit up to 70% aswell blabla) You barely improved their ultimate spell rune, now you want to remove sd from them? Think again.

And the fact that knights cannot use explosions, is rather just retarted. Knights explosion, depending on level, may cause between 100-200 damage (I think, dunno the oldschool system anymore, havent played it for a really long time) To incresae their attack speed may perhaps improve their attack by what? 40-70? (15% faster attack is very little, infact I don't even think it would make any differend at all)


Bad.. Very bad ideas. But afterall, i'm not an oldschool player so what do I know :)


EDIT: Didn't read the last senteces of your post, what you plan to do is make them more into a supporting role. Why should they be more supportive? Their healing is already OP. Your causing lots of problems for knights, and paladins aswell (They use explosions alot) just so you can make druid to do what? Heal his teammates? If you're looking to make them a support role why even bother changing explosion runes. You are ruining for other vocaitons, you said by yourself they shouldn't cause much damage, why even give them an own DAMAGE rune? Isn't it better if you focused more on healing than damage?

Beside all this, when I finished reading your whole post, I must say this is a very stupid idea. Their ultimate becomes totally useless, since they basicly don't do any damage at all, what's the point of using their pox? He/she would just harm his own team.
 
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Alright thanks for the feedback anyway. Tho, you weren't correct in everything you said.

Sorry for not adding it in the post, but the pox shouldn't be removeable. And wild growth is right now removeable by machete (atleast in oldschool), so my change there just boosted it, nothing else. The pox 40 dmg every 2 seconds is very good in oldschool pvp. When you battle someone hard to kill you often try to put in 2 gfbs or 2 burst before UE/sd combo'ing with a friend. That 40 damage (which would tick about 2-3 times then) is really good in such situation, no doub't about that. I know this for sure since I battle every day and I, as a druid would definitely use it in every battle against either paladins or mages.


Regarding the SD and explosion rune:

My goal was to make druid into a supportive role. Note that their exura sio and exura gran mas res is a healing role. Not a complete support. I want the druid to be in charge of most the magic walling, paralyzing, trapping, and everything in battle not having to do with damage. I did this by adding a new element to the druid: The dot damage. Having a dot damage which you only have to apply every 20 or 60 seconds gives druid the time to support. They will not do this with an SD in their hand as that would be a waste of good SD power. Thus, they are given explosion instead. Explosion will be good to use in combos but it cannot solo anyone. And the damage won't be so great (like sd) that it will be better to use that than to support.

However!

Even thou I believe you're wrong in most in your post and I hope my arguments proves that, you are right about knights and paladins losing their explosion rune. That was a bad move.

I have several ideas to remove SD from druid but keep explosion damage output for knights and paladins. But I won't bring that up right now as this thread is about the past suggestions.
 
I honestly don't see the point of "boosting" pox while on the other hand removing their sd. You improve one bad thing, remove one good thing.
What's so ironic is how you talk about druid being able to kill someone easier by help of pox(hence you mentioned you must gfb sometimes), you honestly believe 40 extra damage EVERY TWO SECOND, would make any big differend at all? You indeed get 40 extra damage, but since they cannot use sd, which means only explosion who's weaker than sd, whattheheck?

Now whether you're alone or with a friend, I don't see the forty extra damage doing a big differend, you already got burst arrow or rod. And now, let's assume you indeed go out with a friend. Hunting for someone to kill. Now for this 40 poison dmg to occur, you have to UE, right? So, you must UE first in order to cause the enemy losing damage. While you POX, you lose alot of mana (and you barely will make any damage) Now you have to refill your mana in order to UE him agian, as you said, you cannot solo anyone with explosions.

But if you instead choose to UE combo him instantly, WHAT DIFFEREND DOES 40 EXTRA DAMAGE DO? HE WILL DIE ANYWAY.


Why don't you make another spell instead that has something with healing or anything likely?

Even though I honestly don't like oldschool pvp, you should really re-consider of your ideas. Your main goal is to "improve" druids, yet according to me, you made them even worse. Not to mention knights and paladins.

After all, we all have differend thoughts and suggestions, so goodluck with whatever you're planning to do with this. I really think it's a shitty idea.

Tyronoz


EDIT: Oh, and one last thing. If this forty extra damage is caused by poison, and since you are going to remove 'exana pox', how are you suppost to heal other poison damage that comes from monsters?

Look, I just find these ideas very stupid, but as I said before, what do I know? I'm not an oldschool player.
 
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Tyronz, my goal was to discuss this with old school pvpers and as you don't even think 40 extra dmg every 2 seconds is much, you obviously don't fit to discuss it.

You should only know all the math I do before I sneak someone, and how many times I discuss with my teammates exactly what spells, runes and how many burst they should try to get in without doing - too - much so the target will heal before we combo. If I then adjust my combo command for my mates, to the time that I know that next 40 hp tick will come, we can kill a mage 8 lvls higher than we could before.

You play in the newer versions I assume, and in those versions it's not even close to the kind of pvp math someone needs to give a good show. In old school, the fact you need to aim the runes is just a small part of how different the pvp is.
 
Actually the reason why i'm more of a 8.0 - 8.1 player, rather than 7.6 or these oldschool clients is mostly because in the old clients, it doesnt require equally thinking than on these server I play. What I mean is, in 7.6 you need only good aim, you barely have to think as much as you do, in REAL 8.0 or 8.1 pvp server.
If you got good aim and fast hand you will kill people, but in servers (the one I hosted some months ago, Real Babek) you need to think in order to kill someone. Everyone has the abillity to get fast hands and aim properly, that's not hard.

Now let's leave my experience behind this, we are here to discuss your, according you you, "good ideas" to "balance" vocations.

What's quite ironic is that you still havent answered my questions yet.

IN ORDER FOR THE 40 EXTRA DAMAGE TO APPEAR, YOU MUST USE 'EXEVO GRAN MAS POX', OKAY? NOW TO DO THIS, YOU HAVE TO UE THE TARGET FIRST IN ORDER FOR HIM TO START LOSING HP. SO YOU MEAN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO UE THE FIRST THING YOU SEE HIM, THEN REFILL YOUR MANA IN ORDER TO COMBO HIM AGAIN. WHY NOT JUST INCREASE THE MAGIC DAMAGE CAUSED BY POX? INSTEAD OF CHANGING ALL THESE SHITTY IDEAS WHICH RUINS OTHER VOCATIONS. (I honestly must say I dislike all of your ideas, instead of improving, you're ruining vocations)


Now hopefully you will read this and answer it. Let's move on to the next part, let's assume you do indeed infact use this pox idea. Don't you think people around 30-60 (or on what level you can ue) will mass PK low levels, using one pox and they will all die like rats. Due to 40 magic damage.
When I meant 40 extra damage doesn't do any diff at all, it indeed does for low levels, but when higher who the heck gives a crap? Use burst arrow, or wand/rod. I doubt wasting half, or whole, your mana for 40 extra damage is a good idea. I rly doubt anyone would use it in that stupid way you're talking about.


Now let's not mention how badly you ruined knights due to explosions.
 
It really shows where OTland has landed when someone is trying to argue for the point of "gay server" to be proper criticism.
And this actually being rather average behavior here. Could a mod delete these latest posts by Original and me and clean the posts from stupidity? thanks.
I know more than you, and I am right ^.^
 
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